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GAME OF THRONES


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4 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

I'm now half way through season 7, and I'm enjoying it.

 

You're going too fast! 

 

I just watched the Ian McShane episode (S6) and too be honest, it felt a bit like season filler.

 

43008f5b4fa72046fd489d3f8908b86aaf47f571

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17 hours ago, Bilbo said:


the show is better anyway 

 

They were good editors of the book material. Their own writing is generally pretty awful though.

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4 minutes ago, KK said:

 

They were good editors of the book material. Their own writing is generally pretty awful though.


I will agree for the most part. There are still parts of the last few seasons that are better than the later books and we still don’t know how much of the latter seasons will match the mythical unreleased books

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Well, even outside of the outlandish plot events, the actual writing took a real turn. What used to be rich characters, became cardboard plot devices. It's why I really don't think Beinoff and Weiss are very good writers.

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5 hours ago, AC1 said:

 

43008f5b4fa72046fd489d3f8908b86aaf47f571

It acted as a way to re-introduce The Hound (a character I started to like, when he said "Fuck the king"), and to give him renewed motivation (as if he ever needed any!).

Tbh, I was expecting a lot more swearing, from Mr.  McShane :lol:

I'm about to watch the last season 7 episode, accompanied by my good friends, Mr. Beer, and Mr. Doritos.

For the first time since I started watching it, GAME OF THRONES was predictable. As soon as Drogon was taken down, I knew, instinctively, that the last shot would be of his eyes turning blue. I was not disappointed.

I have to say this: Masie Williams is absolutely phenomenal, in this series. Apart from Charles Dance, she is easily the best actor, in the show.

It's very interesting to see people grow up, over the course of a couple of weeks, as I have. What would take eight years, has been truncated, massively. It's fascinating.

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3 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

I have to say this: Masie Williams is absolutely phenomenal, in this series. Apart from Charles Dance, she is easily the best actor, in the show.

 

I was happy and relieved when she showed up in Doctor Who and proved that she could shine in another role as well.

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31 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

 

I have to say this: Masie Williams is absolutely phenomenal, in this series. Apart from Charles Dance, she is easily the best actor, in the show.

 

 

I don't know why, but I actually was scared of her in S7. The way she looked (with a great amount of deadly confidence) at Sansa Stark, or anyone else, for that matter. 

 

31 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

It acted as a way to re-introduce The Hound

 

Yes! 

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I suspect that fans who disliked the last two seasons were primed to pounce on any perceived flaws, and trash the whole series.

Maybe, because they deviated from the books; maybe because it didn't end the way they wanted it to.

The final episode was excellent. Great writing, acting, direction.

I followed this series religiously from s.2. It's one of the greatest achievements in tv history!

 

Deal with it 😊

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16 minutes ago, Jay said:

I am a fan who disliked the last two seasons, and was not primed for anything of the sort.  I enjoyed the first 6 seasons immensely, and hoped it would continue to be just as good.  I went into every episode completely open-minded, no prejudices, just hoping I would like it.  Overall, I didn't.  There were, of course, many great moments in season 7 & 8, but they were ultimately outweighed by all the bad decisions, especially in season 8.

 

This, exactly. Season 7 I still liked a number of things (even though the Winterfell/Littlefinger storyline was stupid as hell, and the North of the Wall episode utterly ridiculous even though it had wonderful acting and character moments) and was still in love with the show. That Arya/Brienne fight...awesome. In fact I lasted through the so-so season 8 premiere and was rewarded with season 8 episode 2, which I know people call "fan service" but I thought was an incredible well written episode full of great character development and payoffs. Bryan Cogman for the win. Really it was the last four episodes of the entire series that were so sloppily done they just lost me. :( 

Yavar

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Well for one thing it epitomized the "characters do things because the plot needs them to" approach the show had been embracing for a while, as opposed to the "things naturally happen in the plot because of the characters" approach it had been so good at before.
 


Yavar

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27 minutes ago, bruce marshall said:

I suspect that fans who disliked the last two seasons were primed to pounce on any perceived flaws, and trash the whole series.

Maybe, because they deviated from the books; maybe because it didn't end the way they wanted it to.

The final episode was excellent. Great writing, acting, direction.

I followed this series religiously from s.2. It's one of the greatest achievements in tv history!

 

Deal with it 😊

 

Well, you're utterly wrong. Seasons 1-6 still represent my favorite show of all time. Seasons 7-8 aren't in the same league at all. Yes, they did still have some great scenes and amazing production values, but the pacing was ruined and the characters lost their depth.

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I'm not claim8ng 8 was great- but it maintained the integrity of the show. It didn't " betray" what came BEFORE.

The claim that the producers " didn't care anymore" and just rushed to finish it, is.b.s.

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15 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

In fact I lasted through the so-so season 8 premiere and was rewarded with season 8 episode 2, which I know people call "fan service" but I thought was an incredible well written episode full of great character development and payoffs. Bryan Cogman for the win. Really it was the last four episodes of the entire series that were so sloppily done they just lost me. :( 

 

I liked the first three episodes or so of S7 just fine, including most of the battle (edit: the first one, at Winterfell). The show took its time to build up an atmosphere and focus on the characters for (as it turned out) one last time. Daenerys' ultimate madness was also justified and always a clear danger, of course. And the overall points of the ending mostly work just fine as well. But most of the stuff in between, i.e. the pacing, the (non-)characters, the actual story telling, or the ultimate abandoning of any time/spatial relation of location and any semblance of logic (if it's behind the camera, the characters can't see it, even if it's a huge fleet with free sight to the horizon and they're actually flying above it) is really beyond any justification.

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I agree the big set pieces, the battles etc. we're not well directed.

Part of the problem is  that the previously depicted battles in Hardhome" (Whitewalkers) and the " Battle of the Bastards" set such a high bar; and, made the second go- round seem tedious.

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Oh I plan to read them some day, just haven't yet.  And honestly, that desire dropped off immensely as book 6 got delayed and delayed.  I'm less temped to start knowing he'll probably not live to publish his ending

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17 minutes ago, Pellaeon said:

 

Try listening to the audiobooks during your commute, Jay, if you ever run out of podcasts. Beautiful writing, magnificent worldbuilding.

That's what I did!😊

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18 hours ago, Jay said:

Oh I plan to read them some day, just haven't yet.  And honestly, that desire dropped off immensely as book 6 got delayed and delayed.  I'm less temped to start knowing he'll probably not live to publish his ending

 

Yeah, well, I look at it this way:

 

PART ONE

A Game of Thrones
The Hedge Knight
A Clash of Kings
A Storm of Swords


PART TWO

Dreamsongs
The Sworn Sword
A Feast for Crows
The Mystery Knight
A Dance with Dragons
Fire & Blood
The World of Ice & Fire
[The Winds of Winter]


PART THREE

[A Dream of Spring]

 

Read just Part One and plan to stop, and never expect an end. This was a hugely popular series with clear literary merit and is a rewarding read in its own right. It’s not a huge commitment.

 

Part Two is a slow burn but immensely rewarding, at least it will be if TWoW can ever get published. And it will. But it would probably be best to wait for a release date before diving into these, because it is a huge commitment. And you still can’t count on ADoS ever being written.

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Only ever made it halfway into Storm of Swords and I'm not likely to restart and reread but I read some comments today on the occasion of today being the day GRRM said we could imprison him if WoW is not complete, and agree that many of the things that happen in the end of the series could actually work well in the books with the actual setup, not with the characters that diverged heavily from their book storylines, characters and motivations, but were yanked back there anyway unnaturally because those were Martin's outline sketches, gotta follow'em.

Spoiler

Like Good Guy Jaime going back right the fuck out of nowhere instead of it being a slow process for the Not so Good Guy Jaime, or how instead of Cercei sitting in a tower for 2 seasons and Dany going mad in a second after seasons of relative normality for no good reason at all, what if by then Fake Aegon takes KL, coming all this way to then see this could really drive Dany mad, maybe "burn it all, all these fools who support him" mad, or maybe that's a point where the Jon is Aegon could, you know, actually mean something, be proof that he's fake and maybe that's what sends her on the rampage. Or maybe if Bran's not so boring he was literally left out of an entire season, then suddenly is king with very confused/confusing motivations. "I can't be the Lord of anything/Why do you think I came all this way?". Or if the Long Night and the winter to end all winters isn't "oh here's this one dude we made up, just stick him and they all go poof!". Or if Euron isn't just an insufferable moron and the brothers come up with better anti-dragon measures than "Dany kinda forgot about the Iron Fleet" together.

 

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People didn't like that Daenerys completely burned down King's Landing. People also didn't like that Superman, in his battle with General Zod, caused massive damage to Metropolis in Man Of Steel. What I'm asking is, Richard, do you think filmmakers should avoid destroying cities in order to please the audience? And if Daenerys is as crazy as the Mad King, does that mean Superman is crazy as well?

 

Yes, questions.

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I think people disliked them for different reasons.  People didn't like the Man of Steel destruction because it seemed a) to ignore the collateral damage of such an affair, and b) out of character for Superman specifically to dish out such collateral damage.

 

I think GoT didn't pull any punches, and the character as written was hellbent on dealing what she delivered.  I think people's bigger problem with that episode of GoT was not necessarily the mayhem, but the character changes and the rapidity of such to get Dany to that point .

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In the books, the Daenerys story could very well be (or could have been) a "the signs were all there and have been building up, everyone just jumped on the wrong boat that already sank once" deal, but as it is in the series, it was more of a "no matter how much you try to be a good person/ruler and be better than your forebearers... you'll just... snap one day and go evil kookoo because your daddy was mad and evil too." as I saw it.

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She has a really great arc in A Dance with Dragons which takes her from a compromiser to a conqueror—and she’s still a very sympathetic character. To be fair, it’s obvious now in view of the show. And to be fair, now that people know that’s the whole point of her—to be a truly sympathetic villain—it will be easier to stomach whatever happens in the book. But I think in GRRM’s hands she will never not be somewhat relatable and sympathetic. I don’t think she will ever snap in a way that will leave the reader like WTF. I don’t think she will ever be just insufferable and haughty, cartoonishly demanding people “bend the knee”. I think it was just sloppy writing on the show, and unfortunate that both she and Cersei ended up as distastefully and incompetently and irredeemably power hungry (and honestly Sansa was not much different).

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Wrong....wrong...wrong.

Once again I implore you,

listen to Tyrian's monologue to Jon Snow in the finale.

He brilliantly summarized her life and character and expresses what most of us in the audience felt about her.

One of the greatest and most tragic fictional characters I have ever encountered!

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That’s not to say that there weren’t problems with the last few seasons. I particularly disliked Arya’s storyline in Braavos (how do you make an assassin storyline so boring?) and the Terminator-Waif. And the build up to Bran being the king was pretty paltry.
 

But the big episodes in season 8 were thrilling and well-realised, culminating in the genuinely shocking and disturbing destruction of Kings Landing.

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I detach myself from most media these days. Makes for much more entertaining viewing, and you don’t have to get caught up in the emotional discourse surrounding it. Star Wars has taught me well in that regard.

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13 hours ago, bruce marshall said:

Wrong....wrong...wrong.

Once again I implore you,

listen to Tyrian's monologue to Jon Snow in the finale.

He brilliantly summarized her life and character and expresses what most of us in the audience felt about her.

Two of the greatest and most tragic fictional characters I have ever encountered!

 

20190402_215225_HDR.jpg

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4 hours ago, bruce marshall said:

Right#

Fans wanted a " happy ending" where two unelected monarchs rule over their kingdom

 

No, I wanted Jon to end up alone and embittered north of the wall and I didn't want Daenerys on the throne. As far as I'm concerned those characters ended up in the right place, the story just wasn't told right. When Daenerys died, I wanted to feel the tragedy and the heartbreak like I did when Ned, Robb, Cat, Oberyn, and Ygritte died, but I didn't. Instead I was just left cold. Personally, I wouldn't have written Jaime going back to Cersei, but I think with better pacing that could have been palpably tragic as well, instead of just laughably soapy.

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I didn't like the Jamie/ Cersei or Hound/ Mountain ending either.

But, the scene where Hound convinced Arya to forgo revenge, was classic!

Even the weaker eps had good things.

Another good example : the prelude to THE LONG NIGHT.

Write your own damn scripts. Im sure there is lotsa fan fiction out there that tells the story the " right way".

 

 

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On 7/23/2020 at 2:10 PM, bruce marshall said:

Kaleesi seems inspired by ALEXANDER the Great and Napoleon Bonaparte.

Alexander would burn cities to the ground if they didn't surrender.

Sound familiar?

But, if they " bent the knee" he was relatively benign.

 

Napoleon was seen as a liberator and champion of human rights in his initial years of rule. He disbanded the Italian Ghettos, where Jews were forced to live.

Sound familiar?

Both despots, ALL despots , share one universal trait; they do not tolerate any dissent or opposition.

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16 minutes ago, bruce marshall said:

Alexander would burn cities to the ground if they didn't surrender.

Sound familiar?

But, if they " bent the knee" he was relatively benign.

 

Napoleon was seen as a liberator and champion of human rights in his initial years of rule. He disbanded the Italian Ghettos, where Jews were forced to live.

Sound familiar?

Both despots, ALL despots , share one universal trait; they do not tolerate any dissent or opposition.

 

Agreed.

 

Many people who hated Season 8 also seem to romanticise the triumph of Daenerys and fantasise of the divine magnificence of whatever empire she was out to achieve. She obviously didn't turn out how they naively envisioned and now they take it out on the show. But the show gave them a much needed reality check.

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2 hours ago, A. A. Ron said:

 

When Daenerys died, I wanted to feel the tragedy and the heartbreak like I did when Ned, Robb, Cat, Oberyn, and Ygritte died, but I didn't. Instead I was just left cold. P

 

Yeah that's completely fair enough. But I thought the real tragedy was when she turned, her death was just the logical conclusion of that action. Might've helped if Kit Harrington had the chops to pull off the death scene, or we had more time with them together.

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