GAME OF THRONES

[Glóin the Dark 1,841]

28 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Surely he has been working on the book, right...

 

Yeah: A Compendium of Grape Varieties in the Arbor during the Reign of Jaehaerys I.

[A. A. Ron 2,472]

I think The Winds of Winter will eventually be released but the series will end up just like Dune, with 6 out of 7 proposed novels actually finished and many people actively discouraging new readers from bothering with the last 2-3 books. It'll be a real bummer if we never get an ending, but I think the fans are at least emotionally prepared for that at this point.

 

13 hours ago, bruce marshall said:

Are the crybabies still whining about the " terrible" final season of GOT?

🤔

 

Rhetorical question.😎😁

No and if you actually bothered to read people's comments before shitting on them, you'd know what we were talking about -- a series of books that some of us read and enjoy.

[Yavar Moradi 4,356]

10 minutes ago, A. A. Ron said:

I think The Winds of Winter will eventually be released but the series will end up just like Dune, with 6 out of 7 proposed novels actually finished and many people actively discouraging new readers from bothering with the last 2-3 books.

 

I agree with you that this is the most likely outcome. Most of the discourse has been that Winds of Winter is never coming out, but I think that's unlikely (if possible... just as possible as GRRM finishing A Dream of Spring!)

 

Yavar

[Edmilson 12,179]

Worst case scenario, someone will finish A Dream of Spring based on Martin's notes. At least that is what I'm counting on.

[A. A. Ron 2,472]

Well of course Martin claims that will never happen, but I'm certainly open to it.

[bruce marshall 1,968]

1 hour ago, A. A. Ron said:

 

 

No and if you actually bothered to read people's comments before shitting on them, you'd know what we were talking about -- a series of books that some of us read and enjoy.

As usual you completely missed my point and instinctively jump right into personal insults - that's who you are.

 

 

Btw I read all the books also .

I don't care if he finishes the saga

It's weird that all the so- called fans of GOT constantly trash the HBO show and GRRM.

 

Sorry that I don't join in on the chorus of hate.

 

I loved the show and the books.

 

[Edmilson 12,179]

43 minutes ago, A. A. Ron said:

Well of course Martin claims that will never happen, but I'm certainly open to it.

That is because he believes he'll live long enough to complete them. This contrasts with his behavior of constantly doing other things rather than focusing on the books. Or I guess he just believes he has 20 more years of life to do everything he wants to.

[eitam 409]

1 hour ago, A. A. Ron said:

I think The Winds of Winter will eventually be released

 

It's been 14 years since Dance with Dragons, and it "only" took him 5 and 6 years to release Feast for Crows and Dance with Dragons respectively. I'm inclined to think that he is definitely stuck. 

Maybe he should put his pride aside and collaborate with another writer, while he's still alive? 

Sorry, that's an old, old debate. Whatever happens, I'm pretty much at peace with the subject, like most people I suspect. 

[A. A. Ron 2,472]

1 hour ago, bruce marshall said:

As usual you completely missed my point and instinctively jump right into personal insults - that's who you are.

 

 

Btw I read all the books also .

I don't care if he finishes the saga

It's weird that all the so- called fans of GOT constantly trash the HBO show and GRRM.

 

Sorry that I don't join in on the chorus of hate.

 

I loved the show and the books.

 

 

Again, you don't actually seem to be reading what I and others are writing here. Nothing I wrote above can reasonably be described as "personal insults." Frankly, I can't help it if you project your own behavior onto other people, but I can correct you when what you're saying is baseless. There was no chorus of hate here, at least not recently. We're literally just talking about the books and for some inexplicable reason, you're decided to mischaracterize the current speculation about the books as negativity about the show, which it objectively is not.

[Glóin the Dark 1,841]

His question wasn't referring to the current conversation, from what I can see.

[A. A. Ron 2,472]

6 hours ago, Glóin the Dark said:

His question wasn't referring to the current conversation, from what I can see.

 

That may be, but if so, it would mean that he just coincidentally reacted to a couple of comments in the existing conversation with "sleepy" emoticons and then typed an unrelated message about all the "whiners." It seemed natural to me to assume they were related, but I've certainly been wrong before and if that's the case here, I'm sorry I came to the wrong conclusion.

[Glóin the Dark 1,841]

Ah. I'd guess he'd just read the comments criticising Game of Thrones further up the page, from a few months ago, and was responding to those rather than the recent book-related posts. But he can clarify himself if he wishes...

[Nick1Ø66 8,076]

On 16/9/2025 at 9:50 AM, bruce marshall said:

Are the crybabies still whining about the " terrible" final season of GOT?

🤔

 

Rhetorical question.😎😁

 

I mean, it's sort of a weird thing to just bring up randomly, and, as you said, rhetorically. 

 

And I don't think someone who finds the final season of GOT to be "terrible" is necessarily a "whining crybaby". I mean, the people starting online petitions for the season to be remade, sure. That's a bit of a wank. 

 

But being disappointed with how the show ended seems like a fairly mainstream opinion to me (and one which I share).

 

22 hours ago, Edmilson said:

Worst case scenario, someone will finish A Dream of Spring based on Martin's notes.

 

At this point, that's quickly becoming the best case scenario.

[Bilbo 4,277]

19 hours ago, Edmilson said:

I still have hopes for its release. Despite my jokes, I still wish to see a proper ending to the story laid out on the books. 

 

Besides, Martin has been quiet over the last few months. Surely he has been working on the book, right... Right?!

When he wasn’t able to get it finished during Covid any slim chance of it happening evaporated. 

[Edmilson 12,179]

4 hours ago, Bilbo said:

When he wasn’t able to get it finished during Covid any slim chance of it happening evaporated. 

He was busy trying to get House of the Dragon and other 5 or 6 GoT spin-offs off the ground on HBO. He has to work hard for that sweet HBO money!

[Glóin the Dark 1,841]

I'd say that the chances of him finishing The Winds of Winter are high, the chances of him finishing A Dream of Spring are medium, and the chances of him finishing A Song of Ice and Fire are low.

[Yavar Moradi 4,356]

Is that because you think he’s going to decide an eighth book is necessary?

 

Yavar

[Glóin the Dark 1,841]

I think it’s a realistic possibility. When you consider the number of disparate threads of the story, it would seem as though it’s going to take a huge chunk of The Winds of Winter just to cover the climaxes which they’re all on the brink of at the end of A Dance with Dragons, and that’s before we even begin the (presumed) convergence. Two volumes (even A Storm of Swords-sized ones) feel like quite a cramped space for doing this.

[Nick1Ø66 8,076]

11 hours ago, Glóin the Dark said:

I'd say that the chances of him finishing The Winds of Winter are high, the chances of him finishing A Dream of Spring are medium, and the chances of him finishing A Song of Ice and Fire are low.

 

Hmmmmm. Wouldn't this analysis make the chances of him finishing A Song of Ice and Fire, at a minimum, be medium?

 

TBH, it's been so long, I can't remember much of what happened post-ASoS, other than what was covered in the show. I didn't find the last two books to be particularly engaging. 

[Glóin the Dark 1,841]

5 hours ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

Wouldn't this analysis make the chances of him finishing A Song of Ice and Fire, at a minimum, be medium?

Well, let’s assign some rough numbers to the outcomes:

• Probability of finishing A Dream of Spring : p=1/2.
• Probability of A Dream of Spring being the final volume : q=1/2.
• In the event that A Dream of Spring doesn’t do the job, (conditional) probability of him finishing the series : r=1/3.

Then the probability of him finishing the series would be

p(q+(1-q)r) = 1/3.

The actual numbers here are silly, obviously, but I think the basic idea is realistic enough.

Could be that I’m underestimating his ability to wrap things up in two volumes…

 

[Mr. Who 1,107]

I think that if he writes like he did in Storm of Swords, he could wrap up the story in two books but after having expanded the story and the amount of characters and POV characters in books 4 and 5, I think it will be jarring and difficult to go back to the pacing of Storm so I am also thinking three books are required. it's possible that two volumes of winds and one volume for dream could be a middle ground while actually being an extra book. Incidentally book 4 is my favorite so I hope he continues writing in the same way. But I am also thinking that realistically we probably won't get the final book. I think we will get Winds though within a few years.

 

I think his perfectionism and his endless revisions are to blame more than writers block. My theory, which to some extent has been confirmed, was that he has re written parts of winds many times so it's not unlikely that he has written the same book multiple times by now haha.

[Bilbo 4,277]

On 17/9/2025 at 4:10 PM, Edmilson said:

He was busy trying to get House of the Dragon and other 5 or 6 GoT spin-offs off the ground on HBO. He has to work hard for that sweet HBO money!

The last book came out in 2011. There’s always an excuse. He’s either lost interest or can’t finish it. 

[A24 5,111]

Game Of Thrones editor dies after horrific lion attack at a safari park.

 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/game-thrones-editor-torn-apart-36232164

 

PS: Surely The Mirror didn't make this up, right?

[Edmilson 12,179]

An extensive interview with GRRM, where he says a bunch of stuff, but the thing that actually matters is Winds of Winter.

 

He says he felt extremely offended when someone asked him during a convention if he has plans to hand the books to somebody else if he dies, "since you won't be around with us for much longer". There's no plan to let someone else finish the series if he dies, and if such thing happen, his work will be unfinished. 

 

And also:
 

Quote

 “I have to finish the next book,” Martin fretted. “The actual writing [is getting] harder. I’m rewriting. I’m struggling. Maybe I’m overoptimistic about how quickly I can write these things. I’m trying to cut back on anything that I can to clear my decks and get this done …”

 

Quote

 Today, Martin works on Winter at his old house, which serves as his office (he recently moved his primary residence to another Santa Fe property), typing away on a DOS computer that’s not connected to the internet.

 

Here’s what happens when he sits down to write: “I will open the last chapter I was working on and I’ll say, ‘Oh fuck, this is not very good.’ And I’ll go in and I’ll rewrite it. Or I’ll decide, ‘This Tyrion chapter is not coming along, let me write a Jon Snow chapter.’ If I’m not interrupted though, what happens — at least in the past — is sooner or later, I do get into it.”

 

One issue is narrative complexity. The fourth Ice and Fire book, A Feast for Crows, introduced several new characters and major storylines to an already highly intricate tale. Martin was soon switching perspectives between 21 rival viewpoint characters, each with their own dedicated series of chapters. (When Thrones reached the same narrative juncture, showrunners David Benioff and Dan Weiss decided to largely stick with characters who were already established — yet still famously struggled to pull off a final stretch that fans felt was satisfying). 

 

 When the pandemic hit, Martin tried going to a literal cabin in the woods to finish Winter. That was a prolific stretch, he says, resulting in many new chapters. But it took him away from his longtime partner, Parris McBride (they met in the 1970s and tied the knot in 2011), and even Martin’s forced-isolation effort ran into creative troubles. “I wrote a Tyrion chapter I just loved,” he recalls. “Then I looked at it and said: ‘I can’t do this, it will change the whole book. I’ll make this into a series of dreams. No! That doesn’t work either …'”

 

I ask Martin if he’s ever considered simply giving up on the book. It’s your life, George, I say. You don’t have to spend it working on something if you find it torturous.

“I would hate that,” Martin says. “It would feel like a total failure to me. I want to finish.”

 

Handing the project to another writer — which some fans have lobbied for him to do — isn’t going to happen, Martin says. There is also no secret contingency plan for somebody else to take over if Martin gets struck by lightning. “If that happens, my work won’t be finished,” he says. “It’ll be like The Mystery of Edwin Drood” — referring to Charles Dickens’ unfinished final novel.

 

How much further does he have to go? Martin is vague. “If I wound up doing everything in my head, this could be the longest book in the series.”

 

After asking Martin repeatedly about Winds — seemingly more than he’d like — the author did what he does best. He tells a story.

 

In 1975, Martin met Dune author Frank Herbert at a book convention and they shared a drink. The meeting was “near the end of Herbert’s life,” Martin says. Herbert had written many acclaimed novels, but all fans seemed to want was more Dune. Herbert’s publisher had just offered him a modest advance for a story he wanted to write, or six times that number for another Dune novel.

 

 “He didn’t like Dune anymore and he didn’t want to write any more Dune books,” Martin says. “But he felt locked in by the success of Dune, so he kept writing them.”

Martin finishes … and waits.

 

I ask: Do you relate to how Herbert felt?

 

“I’m not necessarily tired of the world [of Ice and Fire],” he says. “I love the world and the world-building. But, yes, I do.”

 

 Martin’s thoughts turn, unprompted, to the end of Ice and Fire. It becomes clear that the details of his story’s conclusion, like so much of the saga, remains uncertain.

“I was going to kill more people,” he muses. “Not the ones they killed [in the show].

 

They made it more of a happy ending. I don’t see a happy ending for Tyrion. His whole arc has been tragic from the first. I was going to have Sansa die, but she’s been so appealing in the show, maybe I’ll let her live …”

 

 “I don’t know,” Martin says. “I think I’ll stay home. I have to write more Dunk and Egg. There’s supposed to be another Fire and Blood book, too. I do think if I can just get some of these other things off my back, I could finish The Winds of Winter pretty soon. It’s been made clear to me that Winds is the priority, but … I don’t know. Sometimes I’m not in the mood for that.”

 

He sighs. “I’m so far behind on everything.”

 

He only mentions The Winds of Winter during the interview, not a single mention of A Dream of Spring. Maybe he did the smart thing and decided to conclude the saga in Winds of Winter? Who knows, maybe the prospect of having to finish a book that is over a thousand pages long only to have to write another one from scratch has weighed him down?

 

Nah...

 

Also, there's some stuff about the HBO shows on the interview, but I don't care about that. You can click the link to read the whole thing if you, unlike me, haven't grown tired of this guy.

[BloodBoal 8,482]

38 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

He says he felt extremely offended when someone asked him during a convention if he has plans to hand the books to somebody else if he dies, "since you won't be around with us for much longer". There's no plan to let someone else finish the series if he dies, and if such thing happen, his work will be unfinished. 

 

No, it won't be. You can bet lots of people will make AI-generated A Dream Of Spring.

[Sweeping Strings 3,375]

All of GOT has recently been made available to stream by Sky at no extra cost, so I have started doing so (REALLY late to the party, moi?) Am 5 episodes in. 

 

BOOBIES AND GORE, WOO-HOO! 

[MaxMovieMan 345]

I still have hope that he’ll release whatever he has done of Winds before he passes away. That hope has diminished to less than what it already was before (which wasn’t much) but I still believe he will accomplish at least a piece of this book.

[Bilbo 4,277]

I wish George would just shut the fuck up at this point.

[Edmilson 12,179]

6 hours ago, Bilbo said:

I wish George would just shut the fuck up at this point.

 

I don't even think the worst problem is his constant blabbering. It's that, ever since he got big and famous, he is so heavily involved with the much more glamorous, sexier world of Hollywood, big celebrities, dinners with big studio executives, etc., that he completely lost the focus of the books. With so many more interesting things to do (like hanging out with HBO), why would he return to the boring, difficult task of writing these books?

 

The Hollywood Reporter interview mentioned that he wrote A Storm of Swords, which is over a thousand pages long, in just a year. Winds of Winter is a little longer than that and he's taking 15 years and counting. And there's still A Dream of Spring to go...

 

I think this also reveals a structural failure with the approach for the epic story he wanted to tell. He wanted to write a story so big, with so many characters, locations, viewpoints, etc., that it would be "unadaptable" as a big "fuck you" to Hollywood. And for that he used that bullshit "gardener" technique, where he would just plant the seeds and let the story grow to wherever it will take it.

 

It worked for a while, but then, precisely because of that approach, the story grew so big, so large, so complicated and convoluted, that when the time came to give it a conclusion, he is incapable of closing all story threads. 

 

Maybe he could have if he focused exclusively on the book. But hey, HBO executives are on the phone, and the big celebrity world is much more attractive...

[Jay 45,770]

There will be a day sometime later this year, in the summer I think, where the same amount of time that passed between the publishing of book 1 and book 5, will have passed since book 5 has come out.

[A. A. Ron 2,472]

2 hours ago, Edmilson said:

It worked for a while, but then, precisely because of that approach, the story grew so big, so large, so complicated and convoluted, that when the time came to give it a conclusion, he is incapable of closing all story threads.

 

The gardening approach worked while he had the Red Wedding to build toward. I don't he has more than a hazy idea of where he could take certain characters and he'll be lost unless/until he finds an ending that satisfies him for literally every single one of these characters. Another problem is that while he'll always have some interest in this world, his heart has in many ways moved on. He wants new and exciting things and for whatever reasons, he doesn't feel that way about his old nag of a wife Westeros anymore. Personally, I get it and while I'd love to read more books, I'm grateful for what we've got and frankly pretty disgusted with all the hate Martin gets.

[Edmilson 12,179]

34 minutes ago, A. A. Ron said:

Personally, I get it and while I'd love to read more books, I'm grateful for what we've got

I understand this... But, personally, I can't subscribe to it, nor do I feel grateful and even less satisfied with what we have. 

 

For me, great stories need an ending. Stories of this kind, that follow characters through a journey, need a finishing point to be complete. Especially when the latest books promise a lot of amazing developments and moments that could have cemented this as one of the greatest works of fantasy fiction. 

 

I simply don't like stories that create great cliffhangers and end on these cliffhangers.

 

Now, I'm probably being selfish and putting my needs of reading a complete story before someone else's (in this case, Martin's) needs. But, well, he had 15 years to write this book, which belongs to a series that made him richer than I'll ever be. And honestly I can't enjoy something that could've been great but ended up being unfinished. So I can't really sympathize with him.

 

If he's so tired and eager to move forward from this boring, demanding story that made him rich and famous, then rearrange the sixth book in a way that it's the final book of the saga. It may take him another decade to reorganize the book and close it, but when you do it, it will have ended and you'll never have to look at this story again. Of course, the ending won't satisfy all the fans, but didn't he set out to write the story because he could kill whoever he want?

[Glóin the Dark 1,841]

The gardening approach is probably why there even was a Red Wedding to begin with (comparing the finished product with the leaked early synopsis). The process that gets him into difficulties is the same one which has resulted in material interesting enough that we’re still here talking about it. The lord giveth and the lord…er…dothn’t give.

[BloodBoal 8,482]

2 hours ago, Edmilson said:

If he's so tired and eager to move forward from this boring, demanding story that made him rich and famous, then rearrange the sixth book in a way that it's the final book of the saga.

 

"The undead army of the Night King descended upon Westeros... and they all lived happily ever after."

 

The End

[A. A. Ron 2,472]

2 hours ago, Edmilson said:

For me, great stories need an ending.

Just stop reading after A Storm of Swords then.

 

4 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

"The undead army of the Night King descended upon Westeros... and they all lived happily ever after."

 

The End

Then Stannis Baratheon and Euron Greyjoy were married on the ruins of the wall and it is said that these two co-Night Kings rule wisely and justly to this very day.

[Bilbo 4,277]

On 17/1/2026 at 5:36 PM, Edmilson said:

I think this also reveals a structural failure with the approach for the epic story he wanted to tell. He wanted to write a story so big, with so many characters, locations, viewpoints, etc., that it would be "unadaptable" as a big "fuck you" to Hollywood. And for that he used that bullshit "gardener" technique, where he would just plant the seeds and let the story grow to wherever it will take it.

 

It worked for a while, but then, precisely because of that approach, the story grew so big, so large, so complicated and convoluted, that when the time came to give it a conclusion, he is incapable of closing all story threads. 

Yes! This is something I’ve been saying for years. This is no way to write a complex series of books and he’s written himself into a corner and he hasn’t a clue how to get out of it. The books are done. 

[Stark 973]

The flipside problem from the gardening approach is if he realizes he needs a character later on, he can't retroactively add them to previous books. I wonder if that's happened on TWOW

[Jay 45,770]

DEADLINE: The rumored slate of Game of Thrones offshoots. Is there anything real? The Jon Snow-Arya Stark sequel, where is that at?

 

BLOYS: Well, since you’re asking, you know what my answer is going to be, is that we don’t really talk about development. But, one thing I will say that’s interesting. Obviously, there’s a lot of interest around the Game of Thrones universe. And one thing I noticed with the launch of The Seven Kingdoms was this idea that it was the latest Game of Thrones spinoff.

And I do like to remind people that there have been exactly two spinoffs, House of the Dragon, and then The Seven Kingdoms which launched two weeks ago. Sometimes, because of the intense interest in development, I think people get confused and believe that development means something is actually in production. So I just want to be clear about that we’ve been very, very judicious about shows that we produce. We’ll develop a lot because we want to give ourselves the best chance of finding a show that makes sense, but we have not produced all that much. This is not Marvel level, four series a year, or anything like that. So sometimes people confuse development speculation with actual shows being produced.

 

DEADLINE: Can you at least give us a sense how many of the HoD live-action and animated spinoffs that have been in development are still active and whether any of them is close to a green light?

 

BLOYS: I’m not getting into any of that. Development is development, we like to give ourselves as many options as possible. And that’s part of the reason why it makes no sense for us to comment on it, because it does fuel this idea that misinformation, and shows are about to be greenlit, and so we just try to keep a lid on it. I know it all comes from the place of being excited, but we try to be careful about what we actually develop and produce.

 

DEADLINE: In terms of scope, is the slate of offshoots more diversified given the success of A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms? Are you looking for stories in the GoT world that can be told that way?

 

BLOYS: I do think that A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms was instructive in that it does show that the interest in the Game of Thrones universe is there, whether it is huge set pieces or more intimate character piece. So that was instructive. But the way we develop is from the stories. And like I said, from the beginning, George’s conception of the Dunk and Egg novellas was on a small scale. So I don’t think I would take what would otherwise be a giant show and try to produce it smaller. The creative has to lead.

 

DEADLINE: George has been co-creator on the two GoT spinoffs to date. Will that continue to be the case going forward?

 

BLOYS: I suspect, because he’s been fairly involved in the process.

 

https://deadline.com/2026/01/hbo-casey-bloys-the-pitt-heated-rivalry-euphoria-interview-1236700801/

[Edmilson 12,179]

4 hours ago, Jay said:

DEADLINE: George has been co-creator on the two GoT spinoffs to date. Will that continue to be the case going forward?

 

BLOYS: I suspect, because he’s been fairly involved in the process.

 

On 15/01/2026 at 6:37 PM, Edmilson said:

It’s been made clear to me that Winds is the priority, but … I don’t know. Sometimes I’m not in the mood for that.”

 

He sighs. “I’m so far behind on everything.”

 

[Glóin the Dark 1,841]

He’ll have fallen out with the showrunner of A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms long before The Winds of Winter is finished.

[Nick1Ø66 8,076]

7 hours ago, Jay said:

BLOYS: I suspect, because he’s been fairly involved in the process.

 

"I suspect"?

"Fairly involved"?

 

This is network executive speak for "we don't care what he thinks, and he'll be lucky if we return his calls".

 

 

[BloodBoal 8,482]

 

[Jay 45,770]

 

[Bilbo 4,277]

First episode aired 15 years ago today. 

[A24 5,111]

[Nick1Ø66 8,076]

On 17/4/2026 at 5:30 PM, Bilbo said:

First episode aired 15 years ago today. 

 

And I still can't stop laughing at this.