GAME OF THRONES

[Quintus 5,399]

I'm in no mad hurry. Got Breaking Bad to be getting on with and must watch the last Walking Dead first.

[SF1_freeze 131]

This was a in my opinion great opening episode further increasing production values while avoiding past mistakes made in the season 2 opening episode. They don't show all the characters and storylines and save Arya, Jaime/Brienne, Bran and Theon for the second episode.

The improved focus allows for a much more coherent episode more in style of the first season. Fantastic character scenes set the stage for the possibly best season to come.

(i know what is coming and read all the books years ago)

My favorite scene in this episode has to be the Tywin/Tyrion encounter straight out of the book. I also loved all the Davos scenes and Salladhor Sans return. And finally the great Barristan Selmy saves Daenerys and offers his service, epic reveal.

While i liked the cold open and the atmosphere in the opening scene i hoped to get glimpses of the real battle on the fist... But i understand the budget constraints and the difficulties of shooting in iceland or on a green screen stage. So in retrospect they made the best out of the limited budget showing us at least one wight chasing Sam and getting burned.

The music by now is an extensive tapestry of themes and motifs for all the different characters and factions. The cues i liked most were the variation on the Stark/Winterfell theme interplaying with the MainTitle submotif in Robb's introduction, the cue playing in the first Daenerys scene and the cue right at the end of the episode based on Daenerys theme.

Ramin Djawadi's music does more than just support the show. His music stands on its own and he managed to compose some really good cues and themes so far.

[Incanus 5,713]

As you said it was quite a satisfying opening episode for the season, where we literally start off running. And what follows is a wonderful set up for this whole season and some very satisfying character scenes between several main cast members. I also liked the production design very much, the new visions and cultures again wonderfully imaginative and detailed, taking the novels as a starting point but developing things in the way they have done thusfar in the series.

Barristan Selmy reveal was indeed one of my favourite moments. But I guess they decided that it was pointless from the viewers' perspective to hold his identity secret, again a difference between film and novels. A wise move I think. Tywin/Tyrion scene was also a highlight. Charles Dance and Peter Dinklage are pure gold together.

And I hate to rain on your parade but I had again the exact opposite reaction to the music. Themes there might be, I do recognize them but I can't bring myself to say I actually like or be impressed by the score in the series, not before and not now. Serviceable.

[Marian Schedenig 8,176]

I finished re-watching S2 yesterday and then watched the new episode. Good, although not having read the books yet, a single episode without more context doesn't give me that much to talk about.

And I hate to rain on your parade but I had again the exact opposite reaction to the music. Themes there might be, I do recognize them but I can't bring myself to say I actually like or be impressed by the score in the series, not before and not now. Serviceable.

I've become used to it. It's certainly serviceable, and more than just barely so in the later episodes. It certainly does build up a nice atmosphere at times, and there's a theme or two that becomes quite memorable after a while. Although some, like the simplistic 4 note motif for Stannis, get on my nerves a bit.

[oierem 151]

This was a in my opinion great opening episode further increasing production values while avoiding past mistakes made in the season 2 opening episode. They don't show all the characters and storylines and save Arya, Jaime/Brienne, Bran and Theon for the second episode.

That is incorrect: in season 2 there were less storylines and the premier didn't show them all. In fact, the first episode of season 2 contained 6 storylines (Jon, Dany, KL, Bran, Dragonstone, Robb) plust one final shot of Arya. The first episode of season 3 contained... 6 storylines as well! (Jon, Dany, KL, Dragonstone, Robb and Sam). There are just more storylines missing than in season 2, but it's just because there are more storylines this season.

[SF1_freeze 131]

This was a in my opinion great opening episode further increasing production values while avoiding past mistakes made in the season 2 opening episode. They don't show all the characters and storylines and save Arya, Jaime/Brienne, Bran and Theon for the second episode.

That is incorrect: in season 2 there were less storylines and the premier didn't show them all. In fact, the first episode of season 2 contained 6 storylines (Jon, Dany, KL, Bran, Dragonstone, Robb) plust one final shot of Arya. The first episode of season 3 contained... 6 storylines as well! (Jon, Dany, KL, Dragonstone, Robb and Sam). There are just more storylines missing than in season 2, but it's just because there are more storylines this season.

That's all you have to say, nitpick about my wording?... I would rather be interested in your own review. By the way the final shot of Arya also counts as a storyline making my statement correct.

Or we only talk about characters. They showed all important characters in the season 2 opening episode while obmitting some in the season 3 premiere.

And I hate to rain on your parade but I had again the exact opposite reaction to the music. Themes there might be, I do recognize them but I can't bring myself to say I actually like or be impressed by the score in the series, not before and not now. Serviceable.

What are your problems with the score to only describe it as serviceable? The biggest gripes i have are the limited instrumental choices like almost completely obmitting brass, snare drums or woodwinds as well as the rather bad action music so far. Only some cues in the Blackwater episode are better in the action department.

The themes and motifs are quite memorable but often rather short. Still, the long line themes (Winterfell/Stark Theme ["Winterfell"], Greyjoy Theme ["What is Dead may never Die"], King of Westeros Theme ["The King's Arrival], Main Theme, Daenerys Theme ["Finale"] or the secondary Stark Theme heard in "The Kingsroad") are pretty good and really underappreciated here on jwfan.

[Quintus 5,399]

The trouble is most of the score doesn't sound dissimilar to generic RPG video game soundtrack, which is to say it feels wholly uninspired and merely practical. It lacks imagination and oomph, there is almost nothing in the way of musical character to speak of.

What you refer to as themes, I consider to be simplistic motifs at best which only vaguely communicate to me any sort of connection with the characters and pretty much fail to resonate a sense of place and musical narrative.

Still really like the main titles piece, though.

[SF1_freeze 131]

You don't like the Winterfell Theme in "Winterfell", the secondary Stark Theme in "The Kingsroad" or the King of Westeros Theme in the "King's Arrival"? I consider them better than the Main Theme...

[Jay 37,319]

Sorry freeze, the music in the show is really bad.

But, the main title is ridiculously awesome!

[SF1_freeze 131]

Maybe i am blinded by my love for the books and the show. I want to have great music for Game of Thrones so badly but only got Djawadi so i have to bend my taste in music and only hear the positive.

But rest assured my taste in music apart from GoT is still great. I mean i adore JW so it can't be that wrong...

[Jay 37,319]

It really is too bad Steve Warbeck left the show

[KK 3,307]

It was a good season opening. Clean, tight and focused. Helped reintroduce us to old characters and introduce us to new. Picked up from where we left off in the last season and briskly covers the aftermath. At the same time, the episode quite successfully showed off more of its lavish production values. All in all, well done indeed!

As for the score, I'm afraid I agree with the others when they say it's a mediocre piece of work. The themes barely qualify as meager unmemorable motifs. Many of them being typical RC/MV chord progressions. There's simply no meat to any of those thematic devices.

The main titles is enjoyable, although it too isn't particularly remarkable.

[Jay 37,319]

The thing with the music is: It's good IN the show. It doesn't make the show any worse, and it DOES make it better. It's just not something that's remotely worth listening to on its own, like the best television scores are. Oh well.

[KK 3,307]

I wouldn't necessarily agree. There are some moments where the score exposes the low budget allotted to the music (with the cheap sound and all), and I don't frankly recall many moments where it makes it better (except for the season finale of the first one). It's largely inconsequential stuff.

The Breaking Bad score on the other hand is something I'd never listen to, but it's a score that's incredibly effective in context.

[Jay 37,319]

Well to be fair I've only seen season one so far.... Maybe the score gets worse

[Incanus 5,713]

Well to be fair I've only seen season one so far.... Maybe the score gets worse

I would say it stays about the same, which depending on your tastes might be either a good or a bad thing.

[KK 3,307]

I'd say it got a little worse to be honest. Or at the very least, the samples and synths got worse in the second season

[Quintus 5,399]

Speaking of mostly inconsequential score, it was surprisingly nice to hear a quality piece during the opening scenes of The Walking Dead finale. Makes me wonder why the rest of the scoring for the series was so generic.

[Jay 37,319]

Wow, now 72 hours from a new episode airing and no posts?

Is the third season not very good, or is no one watching?

[Incanus 5,713]

I guess people are just busy.

There is nothing wrong with the third season. I really liked the second episode and it is a good sign when I don't want the episode to stop and want to see more.

Some wonderful small but emotional moments in this one. It really felt like the other half to the opening episode as it covered most of the characters not shown in that one. Also few new characters were introduced and a few old friends appeared again after a few episodes. I really liked the lady Olenna Tyrell scene, Diana Rigg is just perfect for the role.

[Quintus 5,399]

I'll start it when there's four episodes of backlog.

[KK 3,307]

I only had time to watch it last night. I thought the second episode was great. It felt more cohesive than the episodes of season 2. Lots of wonderful emotional moments. And as Incanus said, Diana Riff is really nailing Olenna Tyrell.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[KK 3,307]

If you have a problem with too many storylines, be warned, there are more to come.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,713]

I felt the same concern for the amount of storylines when I watched these two episodes. The amount of characters we have in the central roles becomes a bit daunting when you have to advance all the storylines with regular pace. They left me wondering how will 10 episodes be enough for even half of the Storm of Swords.

[Jay 37,319]

The alternative to advancing each story a little bit each week is to advance half the stories more one week, then the next week ignore all those stories and focus on others, and keep bouncing around.

I don't know which is better.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Brónach 1,301]

That's what they should do. It'd soften a bit the impression that everything is so slow.

[SF1_freeze 131]

The huge amount of storylines are an asset and not a flaw. This finally is not a dumbed down show for the casual, low educated viewer. This is entertainment for intelligent people who appreciate the complexity of the show (sex and violence are part of the books and the show for a good reason, that's the way it was in medieval times).

We should be happy that there still exist shows like this which gradually build up a complex, rich story and not provide case of the week shit like CSI or cheap blockbuster imitation like Spartacus.

Also keep in mind that Walking Dead although greatly enjoyable is the complete opposite. There is absolutely no real complexity in the Walking Dead yet. It's just about survival...

Game of Thrones is the adaption of the books and as such follows the same narrative structure which losely can be described as:

1) Setup (episodes 1 and 2)

2) Gradual Buildup with rising Action and several Payoffs (3 -7)

3) Climax (8, 9)

4) Epilogue and Setup for next Season (10)

Every season (season 4 may be different) replicates that, otherwise such a high quality show wouldn't be possible and it would never stay on air. It would be completely impossible to show one storyline per episode and then jump back in time and show the storyline for the next character, etc. Everything that happens has implications that only make sense seeing chronologically.

The frustration some may feel in my opinion results out of the week long wait times between the episodes. It' like reading 4-5 chapters of a book with getting the next ones only after a week long wait. Especially in the beginning of a book this could be a pain in the ass for the more casual, superficial reader who usually only cares about the meat of the story. He/She may not br interested in the various ingredients, the cooking process, the dishes and the nuances of taste so to speak.

[Brónach 1,301]

This finally is not a dumbed down show for the casual, low educated viewer. This is entertainment for intelligent people who appreciate the complexity of the show (sex and violence are part of the books and the show for a good reason, that's the way it was in medieval times).

The series contains it's fair share of dumbed down clichés, for example where a lot of the violence is concerned.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[SF1_freeze 131]

Here is the dumbed down Memo: "multiple storylines = great, intelligent show".

The not dumbed down memo would have included a more thorough explanation that complex storylines with a myriad of characters that all lead to numerous different locations, twists, turns and merge and connect in varying fashion can certainly be considered "intelligent" entertainment. I won't start a discussion what intelligent means cause that would lead to endless postings with conflicting opinions. I think almost anyone can see the point i'm trying to make.

Regarding sex and violence i only added that sentence to show that showing sex and violence doesn't conflict with intelligent entertainment. By the way there is even more sex and corresponding stuff happening in the books. The show keeps it pretty tame in comparison although you could argue that some of the new invented sex scenes wouldn't have been necessary from a story point of view.

I never said wanting the plot to move forward equals wanting shows of CSI level quality. Game of Thrones works like a book (novelistic television) as can be seen in the above post. The setup chapters usually have to be slow to SETUP the story.

Why do you force me to write such a wall of text. In all honesty in only wanted to bring across my point without having to write an "essay" to be academic in showing my point.

Mentioning other currently airing HIT shows in a post about Game of Thrones seems strange to you?

Showing three or four storylines instead of six to eight may also run into the same problems. Continuity, timing, implications on other storylines may not fit anymore. In addition the show likes to gap certain events to save money and only talk about them afterwards. Showing a few storylines exclusively spanning a longer period of time would make these gaps more awkward.

Imagine Theon leaving the Iron Island and suddenly seeing Rodrick leave Winterfell as next scene followed by Bran talking about his dream and afterwards immediately seeing Theon having invaded Winterfell... 10 minutes of the show would have spanned months in time.

[Quintus 5,399]

Has the soft porn ratio been upped again this season?

[KK 3,307]

Nope. Not a single scene of sexposition....yet...

[Incanus 5,713]

Nope. Not a single scene of sexposition....yet...

I am very happy that there hasn't been an excuse for them to do any sexposition yet but perhaps they will compensate with one 10 minute long sexposition scene in the future episodes.

[Quintus 5,399]

With wet anal close ups and a double facial. Ratings matter.

[Incanus 5,713]

With wet anal close ups and a double facial. Ratings matter.

Yeah I hope they go the Caligula route with this series. For 30 minutes of drama we get 10 minutes of tackily tacked in sexposition. Djawadi could utilize the bass regions of his Remote Control arsenal to full extent.

[Quintus 5,399]

That one cue would most certainly secure his Golden Globe.

[A24 4,326]

The show is very realistic because the nudity isn't always pretty.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,713]

The song, Bear and the Maiden Fair, from the novel was really butchered in the end credits plus entirely at odds with the ending of the episode. That contrast just didn't work.

Otherwise a good episode, surprisingly humours moments in there with Tyrion.

[KK 3,307]

I wish they used it in the Tyrell/Sansa scene as it was in the book.

[crocodile 7,988]

Finished episode 3 of third season. How many more episodes till it all ends? For all its quality I doubt I could subscribe myself to 4-5 more years of this thing.

Karol

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[SF1_freeze 131]

Finished episode 3 of third season. How many more episodes till it all ends? For all its quality I doubt I could subscribe myself to 4-5 more years of this thing.

Karol

Was that a review Karol? A little nondescript in my opinion... Do you only enjoy "short" running shows which end after three or four seasons? This show is an adaption of a fantasy epic spanning over seven books.

That's the scope. Better stop now as it hopefully will be about eight seasons till the end. Do you rather prefer straight forward entertainment with case of the week style and immediate resolutions than slower building individual storylines? This show rewards viewers that immerse themselves into the world. It's nothing for casual viewers because the scope is too big, dramatic and complex for that.

Episode 3 by the way was a further improvement over the already good first two episodes of season 3 with lots of gems for the bookreaders. I loved all the new Riverrun characters and the episode felt like a first season episode to me (which is a good thing). The shifting from storyline to storyline works much better than in season 2.

The end credits somehow sucked with that punk version of the song but i couldn't care less.

[crocodile 7,988]

No, I like the long storylines and slow pace. But this is becoming more and more fragmented. Not sure it will hold the interest of general audience for that long. My guess is it will be cancelled before it all ends. Whether because of increasing costs and scope or dropping rating (because they will eventually).

Karol

[Jay 37,319]

You're insane, the ratings and DVD sales are climbing every year/month/week

[SF1_freeze 131]

@Karol: Well i hope not, now it got incredibly successful and knowing what's coming i am absolutely sure there will be a fifth season. The third and fourth season entail the third book which is mindblowingly good. Then of course it could get dangerous for the show because book 4 and 5 were a bit weaker than 3 but we will see. It's a big miracle that it even got made and was successful.

I am happy even with only five seasons but HBO has a tendency to keep great shows on air even if they drop. They care much more about DVD and Bluray sales, subscriber numbers and television rights. The show will continue to earn them more and more money making it more likely to stay on air even after a potential problematic season 5.

[crocodile 7,988]

Yes, they do now. But how many years that can last, you think? You overestimate public's attention, Jason. None of the shows in television's history ever secured soaring numbers for all its run. And this one ain't cheap.

I'm not saying I don't like it SF1_freeze. Just ruminating on its longevity. Given that Martin changes his mind all the time...

Karol