GAME OF THRONES

[Incanus 5,713]

Yeah, you don't want to pull a Data, do you ?

"I don't know who that guy is. Isn't he supposed to be dead ?"

"What's that place called again ?"

"I don't even know remember what happened in the previous episode"

He just didn't have what it takes Bloodboal. Not the right material you know. The show rejected him.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Quintus 5,399]

I strongly recommend AGAINST unnecessary subtitles. Data struggled because he's neurotic, that's all.

[Datameister 2,037]

Actually, I'm convinced Data loved the show. He just didn't want to admit it. He probably have a poster of Ned Stark on the Iron Throne hanging above his bed.

Hey, I never said I hated the show or anything. I'll watch the next season. I'm just sad that I didn't enjoy it nearly as much as I wanted to. My brain isn't the greatest at keeping track of lots of similar names and similar faces, and I believe a show should compel me to want to look up information about it (e.g., LOST), not force me to look up information about it in order to understand it. And I also found some of the sexual material to just be...unpleasantly gratuitous. It's possible to include nudity without it feeling that way, but as far as I'm concerned, they didn't pull it off.

As for subtitles, yeah, they probably would have helped me out. Back when I had a TV, I would watch everything with subtitles to avoid missing lines here and there.

[crocodile 7,988]

I wanted to watch one episode, but right now I'm through the fourth one. That's enough for a commentary, I guess. That's more like the fantasy I know from books I read. Semen, sweat, wine and blood (not necessarily in that order).

Horrible score though. Makes it feel like a cheap TV.

Karol

[Incanus 5,713]

I wanted to watch one episode, but right now I'm through the fourth one. That's enough for a commentary, I guess. That's more like the fantasy I know from books I read. Semen, sweat, wine and blood (not necessarily in that order).

Horrible score though. Makes it feel like a cheap TV.

Karol

Nice that you like it Karol. It kind of becomes addictive after those few episodes. Same goes for the books.

And yeah Djawadi... Cheap cheap cheap.

[Quintus 5,399]

The main theme is pretty perfect though.

[Incanus 5,713]

Yes I am prepared to admit that. Too bad everthing else is subpar noodling.

As I have said before I am re-reading these novels and it has been a strange experience since it has been only 3 or 4 years since I first read them but as I am reading them now I react to about half the events as for the first time. These books are so dense and so full of details, often have a brisk pace and span two continents and myriad characters that I can only remember the rough outline of the main plot but obviously not many of the finer details. So it is kind of neat to be reading the book for the second time and feeling almost like it is the first time, having still some surprises left.

And make no mistake. It is memorable prose, no question about it. It just spans so many pages that a few years are bound to wipe some of the details off your mind.

[Quintus 5,399]

I read the first chapter of the book recently and I'm surprised they didnt do an exact copy of it in the show. It was far better than how they did it, which admittedly was good in itself.

[Incanus 5,713]

I read the first chapter of the book recently and I'm surprised they didnt do an exact copy of it in the show. It was far better than how they did it, which admittedly was good in itself.

It is an adaptation with different needs of a visual medium. But both takes on the scene are good, the novel slightly better. The immediacy of film over rides the build-up that was in the book. You have to get to the point a bit faster but at the same time have to keep a mystery and horror element by not showing things too directly. A well done adaptation I thought if not a full recreation of the book prologue.

Also the writers in the series did not shy away from writing material that was not in the books but was essential to flesh out the characters in the series. One gratuitous sexposition scene aside these additions were excellent since they offered character interaction and at the same time told something about their nature. Cersei & Robert scene in one of the early episodes is an excellent example, another is the Vary & Littlefinger banter, no matter how below belt their quips may be.

[crocodile 7,988]

I now have desire to read the books. Might actually even buy one. But first I'll finish the show, which should happen by twilight.

Karol

[Incanus 5,713]

I now have desire to read the books. Might actually even buy one. But first I'll finish the show, which should happen by twilight.

Karol

Go for it! You won't be disappointed!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[crocodile 7,988]

I meant by The Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn - Part I!

(8th episode, to answer your question)

Karol

[Incanus 5,713]

Horrible score though. Makes it feel like a cheap TV.

And yeah Djawadi... Cheap cheap cheap.

What did you expect ? An epic score with memorable themes and motives ?

You're stupid.

I guess I am. That's what you get for being optimistic and wishing for best possible musical treatment for a show based on some of your favourite novels. Of course just reading the name Djawadi in the IMDB list of crew members should have sent me into a corner sobbing violently.

[crocodile 7,988]

When he's using a word "stupid" it usually refers to me...

Karol

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,713]

Horrible score though. Makes it feel like a cheap TV.

And yeah Djawadi... Cheap cheap cheap.

What did you expect ? An epic score with memorable themes and motives ?

You're stupid.

I guess I am. That's what you get for being optimistic and wishing for best possible musical treatment for a show based on some of your favourite novels. Of course just reading the name Djawadi in the IMDB list of crew members should have sent me into a corner sobbing violently.

Epic scores are lame. I want my scores to be noise, so I can fill in the blanks with my imagination. Film composers aren't supposed to write music. They are supposed to create a mood. And in that regard, Djawadi exceeded my expectations. He didn't only created noise, he created a moody noise. And that's more than Williams could ever do with all his fanfares, themes, and... how do you call those things ? Oh yeah, instruments.

Yeah Djawadi is one hell of a noise maker. His awesome noises can put me to sleep half way through the album. Who needs sleeping pills when you have noisemakers to help you sleep? He captures the essence and inner meaning of boredom and dreary empty existence in his noise to perfection.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Film composers aren't supposed to write music. They are supposed to create a mood.

I know you had your tongue firmly planted in your cheek when you wrote this, but this is actually very true nowadays.

[crocodile 7,988]

That's what I call The BloodBoal Curse. He tells cruel jokes and they become reality.

Karol

[Incanus 5,713]

That's what I call The BloodBoal Curse. He tells cruel jokes and they become reality.

Karol

It's a terrible curse. Terrible.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,713]

Why call it a curse ? I've only predicted good things so far.

Oh, I forgot to add: Zimmer's theme for the new Superman film will be more remembered than William's one.

Can you do lottery numbers? I could do with a couple of million €s right now.

[crocodile 7,988]

Why call it a curse ? I've only predicted good things so far.

Oh, I forgot to add: Zimmer's theme for the new Superman film will be more remembered than William's one.

Here we agree. I think his one note theme will capture the purity and simplicity of the character quite well.

Karol

[Quintus 5,399]

I hope it's played on an acoustic guitar with ethnic wailing in the background, Krypton style.

[Incanus 5,713]

I hope it's played on an acoustic guitar with ethnic wailing in the background, Krypton style.

I believe they are going for old school sound. A single metallic twang from an electic guitar with huge reverb. And by old school I mean that they record 2300 versions for the library so Zimmer can use a sample of it everytime he needs it.

[Datameister 2,037]

One-note themes are far too emotionally manipulative and distracting and overthought. The future of film music is in the elegance of zero-note themes.

[Incanus 5,713]

One-note themes are far too emotionally manipulative and distracting and overthought. The future of film music is in the elegance of zero-note themes.

Don't you go predictory on me Data! Don't you do that now! You might possess the same terrible gift Bloodboal has. Then its adios and bye bye to manipulative, distracting and overthought instrumental things called music.

[Quintus 5,399]

Bring back whistling, that's what I say.

[crocodile 7,988]

Maybe he'll be more innovative this time and employ three wailing female vocalists moaning all at once, to illustrate the Superman trinity (Kal-El, Clark and The Man of Steel).

Karol

[Incanus 5,713]

Maybe he'll be more innovative this time and employ three wailing female vocalists moaning all at once, to illustrate the Superman trinity (Kal-El, Clark and The Man of Steel).

Karol

Or one banjo (for Smallville), one moaning vocalist (for Krypton) and one electric guitar sample to illustrate the vacuous empty myth Superman deep down really is. It's like futility's pointlessness in one note. And he could ask Djawadi do it for him because in truth RCP speaks and makes noises with one voice.

[crocodile 7,988]

I think we might be getting something truly special here!

Karol

[Quintus 5,399]

Maybe they could knock a couple of wooden blocks together to symbolise young Clark's yearning to become a (Super)Man.

[Incanus 5,713]

We should stop here. Too many of these things will end up in upcoming movies. I am sure Zimmer is eyeing our ideas for musical motifs with hungry eyes as we speak. We don't want to give him more. These are fruits of our furious brainstorming after all.

[crocodile 7,988]

I hope he's not doing research on message boards. Actually I pray for that.

Karol

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[crocodile 7,988]

OK just finished it. It is bold, really bold. Cruel and gory. I can't imagine something like this being greenlit for big screen. Which is ironic, because the series has such an epic scope to it. I'm not the kind of person who enjoys watching violence btw. But because of compelling, well-written and intelligent story, it doesn't bother me nearly as much as it could. I applaud HBO for producing adult storytelling (another one, actually). You just don't get something like this from movies these days.

How did they pull it off with a TV budget I can't imagine. The production design is fantastic, as well as all the cast.

I've got some points some points on my HMV bonus card which I can redeem for shopping withing a store. Which is to say: I might grab the book from them for free tomorrow. I think I will read just the first one and then the second one when Season 2 ends. We'll see...

Karol

P.S. Poor Boromir, he always gets screwed. Sean Bean is now typecast in doing terrific slow-mo death scenes, I guess.

[Quintus 5,399]

Were you expecting the Ned Stark thing at the end? Did you already know about it in advance?

[crocodile 7,988]

I thought that having actor like Sean Bean in a series like this can't be possible for very long. I've seen another series when a major character played by major actor (well, sort of) dies in an exactly the same way (penultimate ninth episode). So I kind of had a Deja Vu. But to answer your question: no. I thought his character, which seemed to be a central character was too precious to get rid of him like that. He doesn't get any closure, poor thing (which might be too Hollywood, I guess). I felt angry when it happened ("I won't be watching it if he's really dead" style). The story seemed to have lost any sense, which probably is exactly how I should be feeling about it. Because I really cared.

So you might say part of me expected that and part of me didn't. If that even makes sense.

Karol

[Incanus 5,713]

Btw the series has ended its run on TV two months ago. Do we still need spoiler tags to discuss the 1st season?

This once I will indulge you.

Well based on how you felt about the fate of Eddard Stark, Martin succeeded in what he was aiming for. He certainly rattles the time worn tropes and clichés of fantasy story telling in particular. When I first read the novel I thought it was horrible when Eddard died and felt injustice but after thinking about it some more I had to admit he, despite being very good and honorable character, wasn't very smart. Martin is telling us that in his story just like in real life justice is not always done, good guys won't win the day everytime and people in situation where he is surrounded by schemers can't hope to prevail on honor alone. Stark's death also keeps you on your toes because it turns things upside down and makes you care for the main characters all the more as you now know anything can happen. They are not somehow magically shielded from death as in many novels. It makes the danger all the more effective when they are put to such situations.

[Quintus 5,399]

I thought that having actor like Sean Bean in a series like this can't be possible for very long. I've seen another series when a major character played by major actor (well, sort of) dies in an exactly the same way (penultimate ninth episode). So I kind of had a Deja Vu. But to answer your question: no. I thought his character, which seemed to be a central character was too precious to get rid of him like that. He doesn't get any closure, poor thing (which might be too Hollywood, I guess). I felt angry when it happened ("I won't be watching it if he's really dead" style). The story seemed to have lost any sense, which probably is exactly how I should be feeling about it. Because I really cared.

So you might say part of me expected that and part of me didn't. If that even makes sense.

I had a similar reaction, but then I thought about it some more and I realised it was a stroke of sheer genius. GoT doesn't give a fuck about your/our Hollywood expectations and that's one of the many things which makes it special. It's a brutal world in which these characters live; it certainly ain't no Middle-Earth!

I'm glad you were unspoiled. Maximum impact remained intact.

[Brónach 1,301]

At first I thought it was a possibility that he would die. Then I got spoiled, but I had no idea of when and how and why it would happen. So my reaction was like "oh, I hadn't imagined it would be like this". The moment I really liked was when he had to confess "being a traitor" to the crowd.

[crocodile 7,988]

I had a similar reaction, but then I thought about it some more and I realised it was a stroke of sheer genius. GoT doesn't give a fuck about your/our Hollywood expectations and that's one of the many things which makes it special. It's a brutal world in which these characters live; it certainly ain't no Middle-Earth!

I'm glad you were unspoiled. Maximum impact remained intact.

It's a damn good writing, this. HBO have some masterpiece shows under their belt, like The Wire and Treme, but this is something else. Because the shows mentioned are very grounded in reality and you expect them to be that (even if they are pretty rare in their own league), whereas Game of Thrones is a fantasy genre. It's really bold to spend so much money on a story like this. You can do it in a book and it's fine, but to show it onscreen is something else entirely.

I love how there are so many interesting characters and yet most of them are completely rotten and do so many horrble things.

Besides, I spent most of my time at the University studying Middle Ages (well, mostly) and it's quite amazing to see how much varied inspiration they drew from it. I love the sets.

Karol

[Incanus 5,713]

I had a similar reaction, but then I thought about it some more and I realised it was a stroke of sheer genius. GoT doesn't give a fuck about your/our Hollywood expectations and that's one of the many things which makes it special. It's a brutal world in which these characters live; it certainly ain't no Middle-Earth!

I'm glad you were unspoiled. Maximum impact remained intact.

It's a damn good writing, this. HBO have some masterpiece shows under their belt, like The Wire and Treme, but this is something else. Because the shows mentioned are very grounded in reality and you expect them to be that (even if they are pretty rare in their own league), whereas Game of Thrones is a fantasy genre. It's really bold to spend so much money on a story like this. You can do it in a book and it's fine, but to show it onscreen is something else entirely.

I love how there are so many interesting characters and yet most of them are completely rotten and do so many horrble things.

Besides, I spent most of my time at the University studying Middle Ages (well, mostly) and it's quite amazing to see how much varied inspiration they drew from it. I love the sets.

Karol

Good observations. Especially on the characters. Martin deals in shades of grey, not black and white, which makes the characters that much more human. There is a more vivid feel of Middle Ages in this novel series, as intended by the author, than in many others. It is a visceral world with good and the bad, especially the dark side of Middle Ages that is glossed over by many many fantasy authors. Yet when there is goodness and decency it somehow jumps at you and is all the more apparent, appealing to the reader's/viewer's need for good to triumph and succeed all the more.

And the production values of the show are exceedingly high. The way they have actually tried to stay away from architectural and cultural references from our own world is quite apparent. No castle for example conforms to the exact ideas of our European fortresses but they do take parts and bits and implement them so that they seem a bit alien but at the same time always familiar to the eye. My own mental images, while reading the books, are much closer to the Medieval European castles and hamlets and villages but I think the design in the show is equally good.

[crocodile 7,988]

Just started reading the book. We'll see if it will be as gripping in the literary form. It's the first proper fantasy book in a long, long time. Well, maybe not counting Gaiman's American Gods (which I started three times and cannot finish for some reason).

Karol

[Incanus 5,713]

Just started reading the book. We'll see if it will be as gripping in the literary form. It's the first proper fantasy book in a long, long time. Well, maybe not counting Gaiman's American Gods (which I started three times and cannot finish for some reason).

Karol

One of the most interesting literary techniques is the view-point character writing style (Lost "borrowed" this idea very effectively ). You get different perspectives on the story, not just one central idea. Nor is there an all-knowing narrator. I hope you get into it. It took me about 2 or 3 chapters but then I was hooked. Mind you I had not seen the series first.

[crocodile 7,988]

It's a really fast read. I started it late, but read something like 100 pages in no time. The show is a very close adaptation so far. Most of the dialogue is intact. And it's very good btw. You can actually speak it aloud and it doesn't sound silly like with many books.

Karol

[Incanus 5,713]

The dialogue really depends on the style of the book but Martin goes for more realism in his dialogue as well. Not only it is very natural but delightfully clever for the appropriate characters. I have noticed how he uses different levels of formality in the dialogue depending on the speaker and how close they are to each other. There is of course knightly courtesy to be observed in this world that affects the way they speak.

[BloodBoal 7,538]