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12-tone technique in John Williams?


filmmusic

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Hello.

I haven't seen this brought up again, and i was wondering if John Williams has utilised any 12-tone techniques anywhere in his music (mostly film music).

I think other composers like Jerry Goldsmith and Leonard Rosenman have..

I myself am not aware of any such passage in Williams. When he is atonal I think he uses free atonality..

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Isn't Story Of A Women supposed to be atonal?

I'm not talking for general atonality but specifically for serial music and 12-tone techniques.

When we use a series of the 12 notes as a departure point and construct music based on that series by manipulating it it many ways..

One thing I've found is about his essay of strings:

Williams has said of the Essay, "It's not a strict 12-tone work, but it has many gestures of that style."

i was wondering about his film music though..

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;)

I'm no expert in atonality, but As far as I know the bulk of his output has been tonal. Story Of A Women is rumoured to be atonal, but hardly anyone has even heard that. Maybe there is some other obscure work.

There is about 10 minutes from Story Of A Woman (or offically: Storia Di Una Donna) on YouTube and it sounds pretty tonal to me...

I've heard Anakin's Theme is composed in the 12 tone idiom...

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I have managed to locate, on YouTube, what is reported to be a suite of music from "Story Of A Woman", under the title "Storia di una Donna". It doesn't sound very atonal to me, and the quality is not very good, but it is worth a listen. It sounds a like proto-Jane Eyre, and also has elements of "Images". Unfortunately, I don't know how to post it on this site. Maybe if some kind person..?

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I've heard Anakin's Theme is composed in the 12 tone idiom...

I've heard that too, but i just don't see it. Does anyone see it?

Edit: Oh, someone here suggests that it's in the transition from anakin's to vader's theme. not in the theme itself..

http://boards.theforce.net/star_wars_and_film_music/b10190/1909877/p1/

Also there is this theme that appears twice I think in Raiders, the discovery theme, but it has 11 notes in a row.

you can hear it in 2.45'':

Edit 2: Apparently there is a debate over Anakin's theme:

Williams himself has said that "it is built on a chromatically unstable 12-tone row".

( www.askmar.com/Film/Movie%20Music.pdf )

while i saw somewhere else:

"Common misconception perpetuated by JW himself: Anakin's Theme Is a 12-Tone Row. WRONG! Twelve notes in a row do not constitute a 12-tone row. In a pure 12-tone row, all 12 pitches of the octave (c, c#, d, d#, e,f,f#,g,g#,a,a#,b) are used before any can be repeated. Sure he uses all twelve in this melody, but several are repeated before we hear all 12 of them. As a historical note, Arnold Schoenberg, master of this form, is rumored to have used this form of composition to pass codes during WWII. Could explain why 12-tone music is not for the "casual" listener."

(http://blogs.starwars.com/oboe-wan/27)

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Also there is this theme that appears twice I think in Raiders, the discovery theme, but it has 11 notes in a row.

you can hear it in 2.45'':

I know this doesn't help answer your question but it has to be said that the passage you're talking about is (for me) one of the most amazing musical moments Williams has ever conceived!

That sequence up until the end of the cue just defies belief in its awesomeness (Y):john::worship:

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Hello.

I haven't seen this brought up again, and i was wondering if John Williams has utilised any 12-tone techniques anywhere in his music (mostly film music).

I think other composers like Jerry Goldsmith and Leonard Rosenman have..

I myself am not aware of any such passage in Williams. When he is atonal I think he uses free atonality..

Yes, Williams is more freely atonal. Post-Serial/12-Tone in fact, though a few cues from The Poseidon Adventure do resemble Leonard Rosenman's serial style. But only in the intervals and orchestration. IIRC, I don't think it follows any kind of structure of inversions or retrogrades.

Williams has more in common with the likes of Penderecki, Ives, Cowell, Stockhausen, Ligeti, Varèse, Lutoslawski, Messiaen (who only dabbled in serialism briefly), with when he's writing atonal scores or cues. By that, I mean aleatory techniques, revolving down to improvisation within set parameters from various instrumental groups (such as 'play highest pitches in free rhythm', or 'play (series of notes) as fast as possible'), and the now clichéd tone cluster.

Generally I'd call Williams's trademark atonal style 'High Modernism.'

Also there is this theme that appears twice I think in Raiders, the discovery theme, but it has 11 notes in a row.

you can hear it in 2.45'':

I think that's just a chromatic series of notes. If it were 12 tone, it would have a significance to the surrounding structure, and would be retrograded, inverted and retrograde-inverted. In that respect, it has more in common with Bernard Herrmann's Van Damme theme from North By Northwest, or Bartók's 3rd Movement from Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta. Almost totally chromatic, but not elaborated on.

while i saw somewhere else:

"Common misconception perpetuated by JW himself: Anakin's Theme Is a 12-Tone Row. WRONG! Twelve notes in a row do not constitute a 12-tone row. In a pure 12-tone row, all 12 pitches of the octave (c, c#, d, d#, e,f,f#,g,g#,a,a#,b) are used before any can be repeated. Sure he uses all twelve in this melody, but several are repeated before we hear all 12 of them.

Anakin's theme is basically Pandiatonic, as most of Williams's Neo-Romantic works are. Freely modulating, and shifting tonality frequently, but still tonal. Even if the tonality is ever-changing.

As a historical note, Arnold Schoenberg, master of this form, is rumored to have used this form of composition to pass codes during WWII. Could explain why 12-tone music is not for the "casual" listener."

(http://blogs.starwars.com/oboe-wan/27)

Schoenberg's music is for the casual listener if he wants. Listening to his work doesn't have to be a highly intellectual, code-breaking activity. One can just sit down and let it pour over you.

I personally *hate* this prescriptive attitude to modernist music, instructing everyone at the door that it 'isn't for the faint hearted' and 'not for the casual listener' like some mother hen wanting to protect us from atonality. Let people decide for themselves.

Also, it's important to note than none of the Second Viennese School were that strict about 12 tone technique. Most of their dodecaphonic compositions often repeat pitches, sometimes not even using the full series. Much more lax about it than Boulez, Nono and co.

Generally, Schoenberg, Webern and Berg were more interested in sounds and emotional affect than subscribing to any rule-book they'd created.

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Good post, Alien Prequel, uh, I mean, Prometheus! That's exactly how I listen to most of the 20th century composers: I let the mood and sounds pour over me. The reason why some people might be averted to it is because they perhaps automatically look for something to hold on to such as melodies, chord schemes and a general beat.

Hey, I YouTubed "The Screaming Woman", and all I got was "Hot Female Tennis Players". Ho hum...

Heh heh, good one!

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Anakin's theme is basically Pandiatonic, as most of Williams's Neo-Romantic works are. Freely modulating, and shifting tonality frequently, but still tonal. Even if the tonality is ever-changing.

Thank you very much for all the elaborate information.

Just a question, irrelevant to 12-tone but relevant to pandiatonicism that you mentioned.

I have been thinking about pandiatonicism lately and tried to find more elaborate information except for some references here and there..(I have also Slominsky's thesaurus of scales where pandiatonicism is first reffered to)

pandiatonic.th.jpg

from wikipedia:

"pandiatonicism refers to the technique of using the diatonic (as opposed to the chromatic) scale without the limitations of functional tonality. Pandiatonic music typically uses the notes of the diatonic scale freely in dissonant combinations without conventional resolutions and/or without standard chord progressions, sometimes to the extent that no single pitch is felt as a tonic. Pandiatonicism is also referred to as "white-note music", though in fact occasional accidentals may be present. Triads with added dissonances, such as a second or sixth (added tone chords), are typical."

If I've understood correctly a pandiatonic passage sticks to one tonality and uses freely all the notes, eg in C major we use all white keys.

But Anakin's theme as you said, shifts always tonality, uses chromatic notes etc.. So, how can that be pandiatonic?

I'm a bit confused with this matter..

or maybe you mean that contains pandiatonic passages? eg. groups of 2-3 bars?

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12-tone music can be tonal. Rautavaara's gorgeous (and highly tonal) 7th symphony uses a 12-tone row to generate most of the harmonic progressions (see my dissertation...). I seriously doubt that there are any 12-tone rows in Anakin's theme, though. There are too many pitch repetitions within the melody.

Here's the third movement of Rautavaara's 7th Symphony. The harmony and the melody are both the same 12-tone row. Atonal? Not at all! Pure and blissful tonality.

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Hello.

I haven't seen this brought up again, and i was wondering if John Williams has utilised any 12-tone techniques anywhere in his music (mostly film music).

"Barbara's Confession" from Presumed Innocent:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lt12ybgIvfk

Probably Williams at his most serialist.

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A-ha, I knew I came to this forum for a reason. People here have taste! I've loved Rautavaara since I first heard the 7th symphony on the radio in England about 15 years ago. For the past few years I've been working on a Ph.D. in music theory/composition in Ohio. My dissertation (which I will be defending on March 2nd. Wish me luck!) is on Rautavaara's 7th symphony. It's a great piece! I was nervous that analyzing the thing would ruin it for me, but actually it's given me a whole new perspective on just how astonishingly well-crafted it is, and how serialism can be used in a tonal setting.

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Hello.

I haven't seen this brought up again, and i was wondering if John Williams has utilised any 12-tone techniques anywhere in his music (mostly film music).

"Barbara's Confession" from Presumed Innocent:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lt12ybgIvfk

Probably Williams at his most serialist.

So, is there a specific series there that is inverted, retrograded etc.?

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Hello.

I haven't seen this brought up again, and i was wondering if John Williams has utilised any 12-tone techniques anywhere in his music (mostly film music).

"Barbara's Confession" from Presumed Innocent:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lt12ybgIvfk

Probably Williams at his most serialist.

So, is there a specific series there that is inverted, retrograded etc.?

Without having John Williams's orchestrated score or sketches for this cue, or his his own confirmation that this is serial - there's no way to know for sure.

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Anakin's theme is basically Pandiatonic, as most of Williams's Neo-Romantic works are. Freely modulating, and shifting tonality frequently, but still tonal. Even if the tonality is ever-changing.

Thank you very much for all the elaborate information.

Just a question, irrelevant to 12-tone but relevant to pandiatonicism that you mentioned.

I have been thinking about pandiatonicism lately and tried to find more elaborate information except for some references here and there..(I have also Slominsky's thesaurus of scales where pandiatonicism is first reffered to)

pandiatonic.th.jpg

from wikipedia:

"pandiatonicism refers to the technique of using the diatonic (as opposed to the chromatic) scale without the limitations of functional tonality. Pandiatonic music typically uses the notes of the diatonic scale freely in dissonant combinations without conventional resolutions and/or without standard chord progressions, sometimes to the extent that no single pitch is felt as a tonic. Pandiatonicism is also referred to as "white-note music", though in fact occasional accidentals may be present. Triads with added dissonances, such as a second or sixth (added tone chords), are typical."

If I've understood correctly a pandiatonic passage sticks to one tonality and uses freely all the notes, eg in C major we use all white keys.

But Anakin's theme as you said, shifts always tonality, uses chromatic notes etc.. So, how can that be pandiatonic?

I'm a bit confused with this matter..

or maybe you mean that contains pandiatonic passages? eg. groups of 2-3 bars?

Yep, mistake on my part. Sorry, it's not pandiatonicism.

Pantonality is what I meant. Moving freely from key to key, without the constraints of traditional functional tonality. Based more on how the progression sounds. But that said, I'd say Anakin's theme revolves around A Major (beginning on the dominant - E Major) - A Lydian, to be precise, if we're to consider the B major inflections throughout.

But...should you not be able to tell by listening to it?

I'm sorry, but my brain's not a supercomputer. Pierre Boulez probably wouldn't even be able to tell without studying the score.

What's the point of writing in a certain style if it's not really detectable?

There's a difference between sounding 12 tone, and actually being written using 12 tone technique. You can fake it quite, by using certain intervallic relationships common to serialism, and certainly chords often that are familiar atonal set-types (collections of vertically sounding pitches).

But you ask what's the point. I say it's to make things easier on behalf of the composer, providing structure to his work.

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The first two minutes of "Barbara's Confession" sounds like a 12-tone row (the motif played first on the sythesizer and then by the cello), or at least something akin. Of course the idea isn't developed and expanded in a pure serialist manner throughout the cue, but it seems to be written into that stylistic pattern imho.

I'm not that expert in music theory however (and it's hard to tell without looking at the score). If I'm writing something that's completely wrong, I'd love to be corrected :)

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I'm not that expert in music theory however (and it's hard to tell without looking at the score). If I'm writing something that's completely wrong, I'd love to be corrected :)

One thing's for sure: you won't be corrected by me. Sometimes I can't tell shit from shineola, boss. :blink:

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But...should you not be able to tell by listening to it?

What's the point of writing in a certain style if it's not really detectable?

Serialism is not a style, it's a technique. Composers sometimes use it to bring structure and unity to their music, even if the technique is not immediately apparent to the listener.

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It's not a technique, it is a disease. I think Rautavaara is the only one, who took the beauty out of it.

Usually it's 'music' that only looks good on paper, score. That is the biggest problem with modern music, score indeed

looks fantastic, sounds like shit. Most of musicians hate it, audience hates it, only critics and composers themselves(and their girl/boyfriends)

love those 'products'.

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It's not a technique, it is a disease. I think Rautavaara is the only one, who took the beauty out of it.

Usually it's 'music' that only looks good on paper, score. That is the biggest problem with modern music, score indeed

looks fantastic, sounds like shit. Most of musicians hate it, audience hates it, only critics and composers themselves(and their girl/boyfriends)

love those 'products'.

BS. I hate that snobbish, reactionary attitude to the avant garde.

"Most of musicians hate it, audience hates it"

Do you have any statistics to back that up with, or you just imposing your own small-minded views on everyone else?

Besides, beauty is incredibly subjective. Many (including myself) find a lot of beauty in modernist and post-modernist music. From Bartók, to Berg, Ives, Ligeti, Adams, Stravinsky and Messiaen.

Please, open your mind.

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"All music is just 12 notes; it's either beautiful, or it ain't". I don't remember who said that, but I agree with him/her.

In music - as in much of life - less is, invariably, more.

Louis Armstrong said (and I'm paraphrasing here) "There are only two kinds of music in the world. Good music and bad music. I play the good kind." Gotta love that sentiment! Sometimes we get too bogged down by stylistic labels to hear the beauty in the music underneath.

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It's not a technique, it is a disease. I think Rautavaara is the only one, who took the beauty out of it.

Usually it's 'music' that only looks good on paper, score. That is the biggest problem with modern music, score indeed

looks fantastic, sounds like shit. Most of musicians hate it, audience hates it, only critics and composers themselves(and their girl/boyfriends)

love those 'products'.

BS. I hate that snobbish, reactionary attitude to the avant garde.

"Most of musicians hate it, audience hates it"

Do you have any statistics to back that up with, or you just imposing your own small-minded views on everyone else?

Besides, beauty is incredibly subjective. Many (including myself) find a lot of beauty in modernist and post-modernist music. From Bartók, to Berg, Ives, Ligeti, Adams, Stravinsky and Messiaen.

Please, open your mind.

Prometheus by your presence here I assume you're open to music other than the modernistic/avant-garde/etc. I have to say thanks for that.

My experience in grad school composition program was that I wanted to learn about lots of things - including Serialism and Atonal theory. Well, not only did I learn it, I had it crammed down my throat! ha ha I didn't mind learning it at ALL...remember, I wanted to expand my horizons and learn new things. And no it's not my favorite, but as the saying goes: to each his own. I did develop an appreciation for it though, getting to study with Mario Davidovsky was a great help. (Please excuse the unintentional name drop! lol). He was just a fantastic guy and was so accommodating. I even wrote a few pieces based on hexachordal combinatoriality that I was fairly proud of. He was a visiting professor for unfortunately only one semester.

The thing that ruined the experience was the faculty (and most of the composition students) who refused to accept anything BUT that style. I didn't need anybody to teach me how to write a simple march for band or something like that, I had that kind of thing down just fine...but I wanted to learn some compositional techniques from a logistical standpoint. How do YOU, Mr. Composer, go about planning a work? That sort of thing. Instead, the entire time we would spend debating why this pitch class set wasn't in the same register as it had appeared before. Okay, so not my cup of tea, but I did enjoy it in a way, and it exposed me to lots of new works.

The end problem was that even though I was willing to learn a completely new "thing," they weren't willing to meet me half way. They also flat out REFUSED to participate when the Wind Band program brought in first Nigel Clark as a guest composer (he'd written a commission for the band), then Donald Grantham. Later, nothing to do when FRANK TICHELI came to town. Nothing. Nada. Wouldn't allow any of them to visit our weekly composition seminar. The irony was that even though those faculty snubbed their noses at such "simplistic" music, none of them could have sat down and written a march if they wanted to...an extremely easy tonal form. They preached about musical "acceptance," but they were the biggest snobs of all.

In the end, the point is: it's unfortunate, but that condescending attitude from many - if not most - of the musicians who dwell in that realm is a giant reason that it's so unpopular. If so many of them wouldn't sit up there on their throne and condemn the music of anyone who doesn't participate, then perhaps others would be more open to it. They're like the nerds on the playground that everybody avoids...except the nerds usually grow out of it. I realize that not all collegiate faculty share the same overly-onesided approach, so I'm happy about that.

I'm glad for people like you who don't take a stance on one side and claim that it's the only one worthwhile. In the end, composers just have to write the style they like, and write the HELL out of it. Same goes for listeners. Write what you like....listen to what you like.

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airmanjerm: I think you've just hit the nail on the head there. One of the problems with a lot of post-war musical academe is its myopia - an inability to see the wood from the trees. Reducing everything to the smallest components, and not seeing the big picture. Either unable or unwilling to.

There's also a lot of mini-dictators in that field... You know the kind. Rejected by the mainstream and pursuing their small (almost autistic) interests, and looking down at everyone else from their ivory towers. Though thankfully, most of these guys tend to mellow out as they get older (i.e. Boulez), and become less aggressively radical.

That said, two wrongs don't make a right. Or as Gandhi famously stated 'an eye for an eye, and the whole world goes blind.' Just because there's a lot of snobbery and elitism on one side of wall, that doesn't mean you should return the favour either. And I suspect that kind of mutual antagonism is one of the things that's widening the gap between the mainstream public and these academic institutions. So snubbing Frank Ticheli or declaring 12 tone technique a 'disease' are both equally destructive.

As a composer myself, I try my best to not only write in a more traditional style, along with that of the contemporary avant garde - but to converge them too. The best of both worlds.

P.S. You studied under Mario Davidovsky? Wow, that's a big honour. Did you study electro-acoustic composition as well?

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He was a visiting professor - Endowed Chair - for one semester. He did do several lectures on the subject, and I found it mildly interesting. I didn't have any interest whatsoever in ever writing that sort of music though, so I didn't study that with him (or anyone else, at least privately).

I remember my first lesson with him. He had instructed me to bring anything I'd been working on, and my own composition teacher had me working out a book by Charles Wuorinen called "Simple Composition." I brought it out, Davidovsky snatched it from me, and threw it across the room. All he said was "This is art, not science." I knew at that point that even though he and I didn't write the same music, he was worth my time. (Very much so!)

The other thing that was HYSTERICALLY funny at that time was the fact that Davidovsky had just gotten there when the Band folks brought in Donald Grantham. Our composition faculty refused to invite Grantham to our composition seminars, and when I found out, I was LIVID. Here's a guy doing the exact same thing I want to do (writing for wind bands), and I don't get a chance to study with him or even meet him. In comparison, that's like the conducting people bringing John Williams to a school but not allowing the film scoring students to interact with him. I asked one composition professor why Grantham wasn't coming to our seminar, and the response was that they were much more interested in Davidovsky's lectures, etc.

So, I mentioned to Davidovsky in a lesson that Grantham was there, and eventually he asked why Grantham wasn't coming to our composition seminar that week. So, I told him what the composition faculty had told me. His reaction was to cancel his own appearance at our seminar and go to the band rehearsal to hear Grantham's new work they were premiering. Turns out, Grantham had been a long-time student (now friend) of Davidovsky's.

Sorry to Filmmusic for hijacking his thread with my longwinded recollections here... :)

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Hedwig's Theme uses a 12-tone row, yet it is still tonal. Similarly Petticoat Lane from Jurassic Park, I think.

MN0040766.gif

Where exactly does he use a 12 tone row?

12-tone row means that 12 tones are used in a specific row without any note being repeated.

Here, he might use all 12 tones in his theme from a first glance, but many notes are repeated..

edit: Which gives me the opportunity to ask: Does this have a special name or is it a special technique? i mean when someone uses all 12 notes to build a theme, without any particular order..

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"All music is just 12 notes; it's either beautiful, or it ain't". I don't remember who said that, but I agree with him/her.

In music - as in much of life - less is, invariably, more.

Louis Armstrong said (and I'm paraphrasing here) "There are only two kinds of music in the world. Good music and bad music. I play the good kind." Gotta love that sentiment! Sometimes we get too bogged down by stylistic labels to hear the beauty in the music underneath.

Very. Well. Said. (Y)

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Hedwig's Theme uses a 12-tone row, yet it is still tonal. Similarly Petticoat Lane from Jurassic Park, I think.

MN0040766.gif

Where exactly does he use a 12 tone row?

12-tone row means that 12 tones are used in a specific row without any note being repeated.

Here, he might use all 12 tones in his theme from a first glance, but many notes are repeated..

edit: Which gives me the opportunity to ask: Does this have a special name or is it a special technique? i mean when someone uses all 12 notes to build a theme, without any particular order..

Using 12 tones like that (with no "purpose," so to speak) is just Chromaticism.

NERD ALERT!

Yes, for 12-tone music you've "technically" got to use all 12 pitches; before 12-tone music though we had serialism, which is very easily explained as "similar but different" to 12-tone music. In serialism you use groups of pitches ("pitch class sets") and manipulate them in different ways, and the pitches in the piece are identified by how they are grouped and related to the original (through transposition, inversion, etc.). That's a VERY simple description, of course. Filmmusic, I'm probably not telling you anything you don't know, but serialism would possibly be easier to use in a film score because you don't have to deal with using all 12 pitches in a row, etc. In serialism you can repeat pitches all you want, as long as you are grouping them in some way that's related to your "original" group.

As for Harry Potter, that's mostly in E minor with chromatic alterations/tendency tones that give it interest and forward motion.

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On 8/2/2011 at 5:31 PM, Stefan Cosman said:

I thought Hedwig's Theme was basically Theme from Schindlers List in a waltz arrangement?

 

 

It’s Harry's Theme and this is actually a different subject…

 

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It's not a technique, it is a disease. I think Rautavaara is the only one, who took the beauty out of it.

Usually it's 'music' that only looks good on paper, score. That is the biggest problem with modern music, score indeed

looks fantastic, sounds like shit. Most of musicians hate it, audience hates it, only critics and composers themselves(and their girl/boyfriends)

love those 'products'.

BS. I hate that snobbish, reactionary attitude to the avant garde.

"Most of musicians hate it, audience hates it"

Do you have any statistics to back that up with, or you just imposing your own small-minded views on everyone else?

Besides, beauty is incredibly subjective. Many (including myself) find a lot of beauty in modernist and post-modernist music. From Bartók, to Berg, Ives, Ligeti, Adams, Stravinsky and Messiaen.

Please, open your mind.

Ok, maybe I was too provocative in my post but my many decades in orchestras has made me

very cynical towards the modern composers. In the early years I tried to be more open-minded.

And no, I haven't any statistics to prove how the other musicians experience the modern music but I have

noticed the same saturation. Mostly because the great deal of the modern composers haven't even got

the basic knowledge how to write for the orchestra, how to write for certain instrument, even how big is its range!!

This lack of skill is ofcourse among the composers of recent years. The one you mentioned, most of them are very skilled surely

( Bartok is brilliant, Igor have some great stuff, the others I do not mind).

Using the word 'beauty' was certainly only one choice by me, it could have been some other; Grand, Brave,Elegant,delicate..etc..

Only thing I yearn for is good, playable music.

I have nothing against modern,even creepy music, my favorite composing from last century is CE3K but I have no idea what techniques

the composer used, not even interested. It is just there, beautiful, timeles piece of art, with or without the film it's written for.

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Re: hornist.

Thanks for cooling off mate.

To be honest with you, I'm not a big fan of most contemporary music either. For instance when I went to the BBC Proms last year and suffered Julian Anderson's 'Fantasias.' Never had the phrase 'less is more' or 'too many notes' been more valid. Little to no breathing space for the audience or players. As if the entire piece was just an exercise for the composer to show off, but with no substance or nuance.

While I'm not the biggest fan of Boulez either, I've always liked his 'Notations 1-4 pour orchestre.' Anderson was clearly trying to attempt a similar thing, but failed miserably.

My favourite contemporary concert composers makes a pretty short list. Adams, Dutilleux, Turnage, Matalon, Knussen, and Rihm. Those guys know how to use an orchestra, for the most part at least.

Agree about Close Encounters though. Probably my favourite John Williams score.

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  • 3 years later...

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