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Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (James Mangold, June 30 2023)


Joe Brausam

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4 minutes ago, Raiders of the SoundtrArk said:

Let's just say that it's not as good as the three previous (mostly because of Mutt IMO)

 

Again, Mutt is not the core issue. He is an issue because Ford being too old required a younger upstart to take his place in many of the action beats. The overall effect is a rather pathetic "ol' man Indy" vibe that pervades the whole movie.

 

EDIT: Ummm, so...

 

https://collider.com/indiana-jones-5-composer-john-williams/

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Just now, Chen G. said:

Again, Mutt is not the core issue. He is an issue because Ford being too old required a younger upstart to take his place in many of the action beats. The overall effect is a rather pathetic "ol' man Indy" vibe that pervades the whole movie.

Ford's age didn't bothered me. The only thing that I truly can't stand for is Mutt, find LaBeouf so bad. Never understand why he was cast in the first place especially after his lame performance in Transformers (which was produced by Spielberg)

About the visual effects I want to say that they aren't as good as they should have been but today it's still can be so much worse in big productions so I don't complain as much as I used about it.

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20 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

Again, Mutt is not the core issue. He is an issue because Ford being too old required a younger upstart to take his place in many of the action beats. The overall effect is a rather pathetic "ol' man Indy" vibe that pervades the whole movie.

 

What's pathetic about a man not letting his age getting in the way of following his dreams?

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I want to get into the minds of those people who continually rag on Ford's age. First of all, his physical age is probably in the 60s, because he likes to stay in shape. Second, what makes you think he's doing all the stunts and being the "heroic" protagonist of yesteryear? If the writers know what they're up to, they'll write him as someone well aware of his age, and delegating the big stunts elsewhere.

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10 minutes ago, Thor said:

what makes you think he's doing all the stunts and being the "heroic" protagonist of yesteryear?

 

That's the appeal of Indiana Jones.

 

You don't see other characters take-over as the action heroes in the place of Bond in a James Bond film.

 

10 minutes ago, Thor said:

If the writers know what they're up to, they'll write him as someone well aware of his age, and delegating the big stunts elsewhere.

 

Enter Crystal Skull, Kingdom of the.

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28 minutes ago, Thor said:

I want to get into the minds of those people who continually rag on Ford's age. First of all, his physical age is probably in the 60s, because he likes to stay in shape. Second, what makes you think he's doing all the stunts and being the "heroic" protagonist of yesteryear? If the writers know what they're up to, they'll write him as someone well aware of his age, and delegating the big stunts elsewhere.

 

Again, you seem to be referring to a film outside of the Indiana Jones series.

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No way she's related to Indy, they already went down that road. I suppose she could be a nemesis, or perhaps Belloq's kid (though I'd guess Mangold wouldn't go in for such silliness).

 

The day this was announced, I said the film would feature a female student/protégé' of Indys, so I'm sticking with that.

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7 minutes ago, Nick1066 said:

I suppose she could be a nemesis

 

We had a glimpse of an Indy-themed Femme Fatale in Elsa, so its an option...

 

But that just reminds how much I prefer The Last Crusade being the last word on anything Indiana Jones. That riding off into the sunset is nothing short of perfect.

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Waller-Bridge is only 35 years old, she's too young to be the offspring of any of the characters from Raiders

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54 minutes ago, Quintus said:

 

Again, you seem to be referring to a film outside of the Indiana Jones series.

 

 No, but I'd like to think the INDY series is more than it is.

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4 minutes ago, Jay said:

Waller-Bridge is only 35 years old, she's too young to be the offspring of any of the characters from Raiders

 

1985 isn't that far from 1981...

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11 minutes ago, Thor said:

but I'd like to think the INDY series is more than it is.

 

I think this constant desire for "more", including at the cost of transmuting the nature of the series just in order to see a continuation of it, will ultimately result in fans bear-hugging the franchise to death.

 

Indy ended with The Last Crusade. It didn't end in the sense that Gotterdamerung is the end of the Ring (now there's one you can't do a sequel to: everyone died!) but it was an adventure that delved into Indy's past precisely so that it could end with the biggest (and most perfect) farewell to the character.

 

Was it @Nick1066 who said there's something to be said for riding off into the sunset and staying there? Yeah, that.

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16 minutes ago, Jay said:

Waller-Bridge is only 35 years old, she's too young to be the offspring of any of the characters from Raiders

 

Only if they set the new movie after 1971.

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18 minutes ago, Jay said:

Waller-Bridge is only 35 years old, she's too young to be the offspring of any of the characters from Raiders

Which is why I said she'll be his granddaughter. 

 

Or the granddaughter of someone related to Indy.

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11 minutes ago, Tom said:

50 bucks says Indy dies in this.  

 

Young Indiana Jones Chronicles are canon, so I'd assume that means Old Indy in those is also canon.  Even if they did remove those bookends from the DVDs.

 

But maybe he gets the eye patch in this?

 

I don't think he'll die in this.  People don't want to see Indy die.

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5 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

It's evolution, man. First, they ditched Lucas, and then Spielberg.

 
Now they just need to get rid of Harrison Ford and maybe we’ll finally get a decent Indiana Jones movie!

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Harrison Ford was absolutely the problem. Not in his performance (even though that on its own was far from his best) but in the inherent issue of his age. The only reason we even have Mutt is because there was a need to write some of the action setpieces around Indy.

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10 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Harrison Ford was absolutely the problem. Not in his performance (even though that on its own was far from his best) but in the inherent issue of his age. The only reason we even have Mutt is because there was a need to write some of the action setpieces around Indy.

 

Warehouse scene, jungle chase, ants fighting scene. Outside of the chase through academia where he's just on the backseat, I don't really feel like any action scene in the movie was changed due to his age.

 

Now whether they were good scenes or not, sure I'll agree they were a bit lackluster compared to the original, but in good faith I don't think that's because of the age.

 

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Plus all those scene actions have probably been made by stuntmen and I'm not sure that a bit of make up and some fake hair are that expensive to hide Indy's stuntmen. Mutt was just a bad idea.

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Its not a question of whether you can substitute Ford with a stuntmen or a CG double. Its that audiences won't buy a 60-year-old (much less an 80-year-old) doing the more outandish action beats. Those inevitably get relegated to more youthful characters.

 

Literally, throughout most of the action setpieces in Kingdom of the Crystal Skull I don't so much wonder how Indy survives so much as I wonder how he doesn't throw his back out or bust a knee! Its sad and pathetic.

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Suspension of disbelief. The couple "ooooh, I'm getting too old for this, get it, because I'm now old IRL, we all are" gags bothered me more.

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2 minutes ago, Holko said:

The couple "ooooh, I'm getting too old for this, get it, because I'm now old IRL, we all are" gags bothered me more.

 

Basically the same issue in a different guise.

 

I just really didn't need to see an old Indiana Jones to begin with. That's not an attractive movie premise for me. Its just sad.

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3 minutes ago, bruce marshall said:

Maybe, it won't be an all-out  action film.

 

Have you seen Indiana Jones films?

 

Its an action-adventure series for crying out loud!

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We can all look forward to the Jungle Chase sequel with half of the cue edited out.

 

It's a bit wrong that we leap to such thoughts when faced with a brand new JW score, but he brings it upon himself.

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18 minutes ago, gkgyver said:

There are little noteworthy pieces outside the album in JW scores of the past 10 years. 

 

There totally are, but a playlist of JW highlights split across multiple unrelated parts is nowhere near as memorable and as accessible as a single soundtrack album comprised of strong musical storytelling with a tuneful first, second and third act. 

 

In the classical world they call developing narrative suites "movements", but JW works best to a rigid three act filmic structure; hence why his later scores can be decidedly unsatisfying: the films are crap and generally very poorly put together, compared to what he's used to.

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

 

Have you seen Indiana Jones films?

Its an action-adventure series for crying out loud!

 

I don't know. I mean, sure this is true, but those days are long gone and not coming back.

 

But that said I can see a scenario where they severely pare back Ford's action bits and give them to the girl.  Maybe put him in more of a Robert Langdon kind of role, where he's more the academic figuring things out while the action swirls around him rather tham him being the one doing the fighting...because that dog just ain't gonna hunt. I agree with Quintus that they made it seem somewhat plausible 13 years ago. But Ford doing any kind of serious fighting today would look like parody.

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1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

Its not a question of whether you can substitute Ford with a stuntmen or a CG double. Its that audiences won't buy a 60-year-old (much less an 80-year-old) doing the more outandish action beats. Those inevitably get relegated to more youthful characters.

 

This I do kinda agree with.

 

An 80 year old Ford playing Indy does seem rather sad.

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