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Indiana Jones 5 (James Mangold, July 29 2022)


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Suspension of disbelief. The couple "ooooh, I'm getting too old for this, get it, because I'm now old IRL, we all are" gags bothered me more.

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Mutt died on the way back to his home planet

I strongly disagree with this. Ford was the best thing about the last movie, by far. He convinced as an older yet still proportionately capable Indy. He simply deserved a better script and a better St

2 minutes ago, Holko said:

The couple "ooooh, I'm getting too old for this, get it, because I'm now old IRL, we all are" gags bothered me more.

 

Basically the same issue in a different guise.

 

I just really didn't need to see an old Indiana Jones to begin with. That's not an attractive movie premise for me. Its just sad.

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3 minutes ago, bruce marshall said:

Maybe, it won't be an all-out  action film.

 

Have you seen Indiana Jones films?

 

Its an action-adventure series for crying out loud!

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18 minutes ago, gkgyver said:

There are little noteworthy pieces outside the album in JW scores of the past 10 years. 

 

There totally are, but a playlist of JW highlights split across multiple unrelated parts is nowhere near as memorable and as accessible as a single soundtrack album comprised of strong musical storytelling with a tuneful first, second and third act. 

 

In the classical world they call developing narrative suites "movements", but JW works best to a rigid three act filmic structure; hence why his later scores can be decidedly unsatisfying: the films are crap and generally very poorly put together, compared to what he's used to.

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

 

Have you seen Indiana Jones films?

Its an action-adventure series for crying out loud!

 

I don't know. I mean, sure this is true, but those days are long gone and not coming back.

 

But that said I can see a scenario where they severely pare back Ford's action bits and give them to the girl.  Maybe put him in more of a Robert Langdon kind of role, where he's more the academic figuring things out while the action swirls around him rather tham him being the one doing the fighting...because that dog just ain't gonna hunt. I agree with Quintus that they made it seem somewhat plausible 13 years ago. But Ford doing any kind of serious fighting today would look like parody.

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1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

Its not a question of whether you can substitute Ford with a stuntmen or a CG double. Its that audiences won't buy a 60-year-old (much less an 80-year-old) doing the more outandish action beats. Those inevitably get relegated to more youthful characters.

 

This I do kinda agree with.

 

An 80 year old Ford playing Indy does seem rather sad.

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1 hour ago, Nick1066 said:

 

I don't know. I mean, sure this is true, but those days are long gone and not coming back.


Which is why the right choice would have been to NOT make this.

 

Or, in my case, to ignore it.

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I would say most people here aren't salivating for another Indy film or score.

 

Disney doing something with the franchise was inevitable.  I think we're trying to cope, honestly.

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Indiana Jones and the Lost Sword of the Samurai. 

 

I like this title that I just made up. I'll bet it got your head spinning with  JW music possibilities...😉

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10 hours ago, Quintus said:

Watch Fleabag, it is outstanding.

 

I'm curious if Waller-Bridge was asked by Spielberg and Kennedy to doctor the Indy 5 script before she signed on to star alongside Ford.

 

1 hour ago, Gruesome Son of a Bitch said:

Since Dizney is making it, I suppose Indy will be in China?

 

The cultural pandering by Hollywood for Chinese audiences ended in 2018. Besides, Indy already went to Shanghai in Temple of Doom.

11 hours ago, TownerFan said:

 

Spielberg is not directing Indy 5, he's only exec producing. James Mangold is the attached director.

 

According to trade reports, Spielberg is "hands on" producing this movie. While I don't think he'll be looking over Mangold's shoulder, he'll probably pop over to the set and give notes on dailies. It's not like his hands-off approach to the Jurassic World movies.

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6 hours ago, mstrox said:


^^^^^
 

I’ll never understand people’s inability to take what a movie is presenting at face value.  There is nothing inherently believable about a single action sequence in any Indiana Jones movie, or in  any movie really. 

 

Well by that metric, everything is believable. I mean, you can explain almost everything away with this sort of relativism...."what, you can believe in a man with superpowers from the planet Krypton but you can't believe Denise Richards as a nuclear scientist!?"  That's just not how audiences are accustomed to reacting to what's being shown on screen. It's not about taking something at face value, it's about perceiving what you see on the screen as authentic, even if only in the context of cinema.

 

Most of the action sequences in the 007 movies are fantastical as well, but compare  38-year-old Daniel Craig in Casino Royale with 58-year-old Roger Moore in View to a Kill doing them and it becomes readily apparent which comes across as more authentic, whether "realistic" or not.

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To be fair, Bond in AVTAK doesn't quite do the intensive level of action that he does in CR. Much of his AVTAK characterisation is detective work, sneaking around and classic suave Bonding stuff. And in action scenes, he relies more on machines and vehicles than brute physical strength. Craig in CR was doing ridiculous shit.

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6 minutes ago, Nick1066 said:

Most of the action sequences in the 007 movies are fantastical as well, but compare  38-year-old Daniel Craig in Casino Royale with 58-year-old Roger Moore in View to a Kill doing them and it becomes readily apparent which comes across as more authentic, whether "realistic" or not.

 

In any action movie, there's a certain number of beats that stretch credulity that I can definitely take. Batman and Rachel definitely shouldn't have survived that fall unto the car in The Dark Knight. Jaguar Paw really shouldn't be able to escape his pursuers in Apocalypto for so long after having taken an arrow to his side; and, for sure, Indy and Willy should NOT have survived either of the two drops they fall down in the life-boat.

 

Kingdom of the Crystal Skull is pushing it, though. And its not even the incredulity of Indy surviving, its more like "buddy, you're ancient, wouldn't you have thrown your back out doing this?"

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4 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

In any action movie, there's a certain number of beats that stretch credulity that I can definitely take. Batman and Rachel definitely shouldn't have survived that fall unto the car in The Dark Knight. Jaguar Paw really shouldn't be able to escape his pursuers in Apocalypto for so long after having taken an arrow to his side; and, for sure, Indy and Willy should NOT have survived either of the two drops they fall down in the life-boat.

 

Kingdom of the Crystal Skull is pushing it, though. And its not even the incredulity of Indy surviving, its more like "buddy, you're ancient, wouldn't you have thrown your back out doing this?"

 

Yeah but that's sort of my point though.  Not everything is believable, or should be taken at face value, just because it's in a movie. There's a line. It's very situational where the line is, and hard to define it, but audiences instinctively know when its been crossed.

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2 minutes ago, Nick1066 said:

It's very situational where the line is, and hard define it, but audiences instinctively know when its been crossed.

 

The best analogy is this: Somewhere along our digestive tract, chewed-up food becomes fecal matter. Its an incremental process, so you can't really pinpoint the exact spot where it happens. But once you're in the shit, you know.

 

Although Indy's credibility in the action scenes is really just a side-effect. The main issue is that I really didn't need to see Indy in old age. Ever.

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7 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Although Indy's credibility in the action scenes is really just a side-effect. The main issue is that I really didn't need to see Indy in old age. Ever.

 

This pretty much goes with most of the heroes we grew up with, isn't it? I certainly didn't need to see Han Solo as a divorced dead beat dad doing odd jobs to make ends meet, or Luke Skywalker as a washed up loser.

 

Admittedly, it works better when there's not a huge time gap between films. The main characters in classic Star Trek aged on screen with a movie every few years, making it easier to accept and see them as older. The fact that age and growing older was a consistent theme through the TOS films helped as well.

 

To use another analogy, it's the difference between gradually seeing someone you know lose or gain weight over a period of time, and not seeing them for 15 years and being shocked that they've blimped out.

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6 minutes ago, Nick1066 said:

This pretty much goes with most of the heroes we grew up with, isn't it? I certainly didn't need to see Han Solo as a divorced dead beat dad doing odd jobs to make ends meet, or Luke Skywalker as a washed up loser.

 

I was actually going to use that as a counter-example. I actually think Han Solo got a great quasi-tragic arc. I'm not sure it was worth it in the grand scheme of things, but on its own it did feel meaningful.

 

We're obviously not going to get that sort of thing with Indy, so there's really no point in an old Indy.

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37 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

At least Han Solo is aware his life's gone to shit.

 

Indy isn't in on the joke that he's stil going through all these shenanigan when he's a senior citizen...

 

Uh, how do you know that? We haven't seen or heard from the character in 13 years. 

 

I'm hoping this film takes a new direction and avoids the formula of previous films. Perhaps a Life of Pi type framing device, with a cynical young writer/journalist showing an interest in Indy's life, except they stumble upon some unresolved issue/mystery from decades prior which sets a new adventure in motion. 

 

There's plenty of ways you can approach this film and address Indy's age while also telling a new story. 

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