Chen G. 3,943 Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 45 minutes ago, Fabulin said: Northern-type European mythology invites a bit of Wagnering too. Williams had barely heard any Wagner; he doesn't like his dramas. Has something to do with him trying to watch the Ring cycle without a grasp of German. Go figure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 20 minutes ago, Chen G. said: Has something to do with him trying to watch the Ring cycle without a grasp of German. Without a grasp of masochism, more like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,943 Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 I personally think Das Rheingold is quite accessible, provided there's subtitles, and then you just gradually get into the other ones. Some might prefer to start with something like Dutchman or Lohengrin. And then of course there's Tristan... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,301 Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 1 hour ago, Fabulin said: Northern-type European mythology invites a bit of Wagnering too. I wonder if the film might center around Nordic mythology? Seems like an area Hollywood hasn't really bothered to explore (by comparison, the relics of Egyptian mythology have been comprehensively exhumed). Although how any of this ties into Spoiler NASA, Nazis and the space race has me buggered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothless 963 Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 59 minutes ago, crumbs said: I wonder if the film might center around Nordic mythology? Seems like an area Hollywood hasn't really bothered to explore (by comparison, the relics of Egyptian mythology have been comprehensively exhumed). Hide contents That'd be awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,030 Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 1 hour ago, crumbs said: I wonder if the film might center around Nordic mythology? Seems like an area Hollywood hasn't really bothered to explore Ahem... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,943 Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 Doesn't count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Thor 7,471 Posted May 31, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted May 31, 2021 The Norwegian film GÅTEN RAGNAROK from a few years ago was actually an Indy-style adventure film (with references to other movies too, like JURASSIC PARK) based around Norse mythology. Well worth a watch if you can find it. Nick1Ø66, Fabulin and Cerebral Cortex 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,274 Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 Against my better judgement, I kinda dig the direction they seem to be taking with this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,510 Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 2 hours ago, crumbs said: Although how any of this ties into Reveal hidden contents NASA, Nazis and the space race has me buggered. There is always the possibility of an introductory mini-adventure. Or the former rumours might be a red herring to some degree. Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,301 Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 I guess the films tend to be a bit bi-polar in that respect anyway. Before KOCS, the artifact in the opening teaser had little to do with the major plot artifact or story (though it might inform it thematically, or introduce characters that become important later). You'd have a totally warped impression of Temple of Doom's plot if all you knew about was the nightclub dance sequence, a Shanghai car chase, a rare diamond, Indy being poisoned, and the ashes of a long-dead Chinese emperor. I'd love to see an opening teaser with some absurdly convoluted action scene during one of the Apollo launches (naturally, a baddie ends up trapped underneath the launch pad during the launch, complete with a classic JW countdown cue before the fire erupts). It's such a fun time period for an Indy film to be set, all things considered. Fabulin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Fabulin 3,510 Posted May 31, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted May 31, 2021 I have just recalled that there actually is a very good proof of concept for an old Indy fighting old Nazis. In the 1960s there was a TV series that was very popular in Poland, titled "Stakes Larger Than Life" (pol. Stawka większa niż życie) about a Polish agent impersonating a German agent during World War II and doing some spying and some action scenes and heroics. It even had a great fanfare theme: In 2012 a film sequel was made, with 40+ years older actors reprising their roles. The film was set in communist Poland and East Germany, and the topic was a hunt for the legendary treasure - The Amber Room https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amber_Room There was a very cool difference in quality between an old black-and-white TV series and 2012 film cameras. The old actors (aged 83 and 89!) for the most part did well, and leaned well on younger supporting characters as well as new, young actors playing in flash-backs. It was interesting to see characters from a different era and conflict move around the world of the 1970s. A better script and budget was all it would take for that film to have been a succesful Indy sequel (sans Williams). Cerebral Cortex, crumbs and Yavar Moradi 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 On 5/21/2021 at 1:05 PM, Naïve Old Fart said: LXG is a deeply flawed, but very entertaining, film. It's worth a look. That wash naughty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,647 Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 LXG is one of the only movies I’ve seen where I’ve wanted to walk out of a theater. I didn’t, but I wanted to! And I saw it for free at the time, so there was no financial incentive for leaving early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,801 Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 6 hours ago, Chen G. said: Has something to do with him trying to watch the Ring cycle without a grasp of German. Go figure... Well it makes sense, the only German I know is: Achtung!... eine Kugel kam geflogen, da steht ein Lindenbaum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,647 Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 I only remember “darf ich zur toilette gehen” from my German survey class, is that from Wagner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Edmilson 7,393 Posted June 2, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted June 2, 2021 It is happening. ‘Indiana Jones 5’ To Begin Filming In The UK Next Week pete, crumbs, Bellosh and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,030 Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 What has Ford done to his face? Botox and fillers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,301 Posted June 3, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted June 3, 2021 Good luck Mangold, I'm rooting for ya! Yavar Moradi, Nick1Ø66, Bayesian and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 4,639 Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 7 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said: What has Ford done to his face? Botox and fillers? He shaved. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 2,833 Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 Is there any news on other potential filming locations apart from the UK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,301 Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 I have the same question.I really hope they're filming in other countries! They're so close to exotic locations throughout North Africa and Europe, it would be a waste if they just filmed everything at Pinewood. They might as well have stayed in LA if they weren't intending to travel internationally, so I'm quietly confident they relocated to Pinewood for good reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellosh 3,389 Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 I'm officially excited and nervous at the same time for this. But it begins. It's finally happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick1Ø66 4,689 Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 I have to admit, despite my better judgement, I'm starting to get more interested in this than I thought I'd be. And this is something I know for a fact would not be the case if Spielberg were directing. -Nick 1066, who is slowly moving from cynical scepticism to cautious optimism about Indy 5. Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,943 Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 9 minutes ago, Nick1066 said: despite my better judgement, I'm starting to get more interested in this than I thought I'd be. Et tu quoque, Nick? I'm conceptually uninterested in an action-adventure film where the action hero is 80-years-old. Nick1Ø66 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick1Ø66 4,689 Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 9 minutes ago, Chen G. said: Et tu quoque, Nick? I'm a reasonably educated man, but this f*cking heat must be making me crazy. I have no idea what you're getting at here. 9 minutes ago, Chen G. said: I'm conceptually uninterested in an action-adventure film where the action hero is 80-years-old. I'm guessing then you're not big on Aragorn bits in LOTR then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 On 6/2/2021 at 1:55 PM, Jurassic Shark said: What has Ford done to his face? Botox and fillers? More like life and plane crashes I wish it were set during the late 2010's. Most of Indy's entourage has died. Indy has lived this long because he chose wisely and the cup has extended his life to the here and now. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,393 Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 6 minutes ago, Nick1066 said: I'm guessing then you're not big on Aragorn bits in LOTR then? Movie Aragorn is just 35, while movie Frodo and Sam are in their early 20s. Nick1Ø66 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,943 Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 10 minutes ago, Nick1066 said: I'm a reasonably educated man, but this f*cking heat must be making me crazy Heat?! You're from Oxford! I live five-hours drive from Wadi Rum! Nick1Ø66 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick1Ø66 4,689 Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 5 minutes ago, Chen G. said: Heat?! You're from Oxford! I live five-hours drive from Wadi Rum! Yeah but it's a dry heat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,943 Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 2 minutes ago, Nick1066 said: Yeah but it's a dry heat. No, its not - I'm ten minute drive from the coast of the Mediterannean! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick1Ø66 4,689 Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 Beach party at Chen's house! Everyone bring your flak jackets. Chen G. and Edmilson 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Cerebral Cortex 3,357 Posted June 5, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted June 5, 2021 Oh mama, I am liking what I'm seeing. One last John Williams Indy OST with Struzan cover art would be a thing of beauty. WampaRat, Yavar Moradi and Bayesian 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post WampaRat 1,105 Posted June 5, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted June 5, 2021 PLEASE OH PLEASE let this come true. They really screwed Struzan over on the sequel Star Wars. Just let this kind man create a beautiful work of art for this one! In his book he talks about how working on Crystal Skull was such a pain. He used to just report directly to Spielberg/Lucas and on occasions the actors he was depicting. But these movies have just become so gargantuan with so many “suits” and reps involved and markets to please. They wanted a zillion comps and edits. (He works by hand not Photoshop ya know)Too many cooks in the kitchen. He couldn’t get within a hundred yards of the director to get their approval directly anymore. So he just retired 😔 crumbs, Yavar Moradi, Cerebral Cortex and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDementous 1,059 Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 I'm feeling the excitement in the air, this seems like a really solid creative team so we could get something good out of this. Yavar Moradi and Cerebral Cortex 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 OK, I split out the discussion of the on-set photos into it's own thread here: https://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/33870-indiana-jones-5-spoilers-set-photos-thread/ Keep in mind some people want to know as little as possible about the film before seeing it when you're in this thread. Thanks! WampaRat and Yavar Moradi 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 2,833 Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 This is some headline from this article on a Digital Spy about IJ. https://www.digitalspy.com/movies/a36671725/indiana-jones-karen-allen-marion-ravenwood-paedophile/ crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,393 Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 I gotta say, Raiders is one of my favorite movies of all time, BUT... the dialogue between Marion and Indy on Nepal, where she implies she was a minor when they first met is, well, a little uncomfortable to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rick 1,155 Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 Remember, people got married at a much younger age at times back then than they do now, as young as 14 or 15 sometimes, more often than not the bride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,943 Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 25 minutes ago, Edmilson said: the dialogue between Marion and Indy on Nepal, where she implies she was a minor when they first met is, well, a little uncomfortable to say the least. Lucas was the one pushing for a big age difference, with Marion having been 12-15 when a 25-year-old Indy got it on with her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,393 Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 4 minutes ago, Chen G. said: Lucas was the one pushing for a big age difference, with Marion having been 15 when a 25-year-old Indy got it on with her. Wierd choice by Lucas. But then again, in Star Wars Han is a lot older than Leia, so... I think Lucas is into relationships with a big age gap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,943 Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 I think he was just thinking of ways to make Indy's character rough around the edges. But then, it was also his suggestion to only hint at this - he wasn't completely off of his rocker there. Here's the bit of the story conference: Quote George Lucas — I was thinking that this old guy could have been his mentor. He could have known this little girl when she was just a kid. [adds facetiously] Had an affair with her when she was eleven. Lawrence Kasdan — And he was forty-two. George Lucas — He hasn't seen her in twelve years. Now she's twenty-two. It's a real strange relationship. Steven Spielberg — She had better be older than twenty-two [in the film]. George Lucas — He's thirty-five, and he knew her ten years ago when he was twenty-five and she was only twelve. It would be amusing to make her slightly young at the time. Steven Spielberg — And promiscuous. She came onto him. George Lucas — Fifteen is right on the edge. I know it's an outrageous idea, but it is interesting. Once she's sixteen or seventeen it's not interesting anymore. But if she was fifteen and he was twenty-five and they actually had an affair the last time they met. And she was madly in love with him and he... Steven Spielberg — She has pictures of him. George Lucas — There would be a picture on the mantle of her, her father, and him. She was madly in love with him at the time and he left her because obviously it wouldn't work out. Now she's twenty-five and'she's been living in Nepal since she was eighteen. It's not only that they like each other, it's a very bizarre thing, it puts a whole new perspective on this whole thing. It gives you lots of stuff to play off of between them. Maybe she still likes him. It's something he'd rather forget about and not have come up again. This gives her a lot of ammunition to fight with. Steven Spielberg — In a way, she could say, "You've made me this hard." George Lucas — This is a resource that you can either mine or not. It's not as blatant as we're talking about. You don't think about it that much. You don't immediately realize how old she was at the time. It would be subtle. She could talk about it. "I was jail bait the last time we were together." She can flaunt it at him, but at the same time she never says, "I was fifteen years-old."' Even If we don't mention it, when we go to cast the part we're going to end up with a woman who's about twenty-three and a hero who's about thirty-five. You can see two things right away: the first is that while Lucas does most of the talking, he nevertheless DIDN'T have the whole story in his head - he's coming up with this on the spot (this being his second idea for Marion, having first suggested she should be a femme fatale) and figuring things up with Spielberg and Kasdan. So its not right to say that the story of Indiana Jones is Lucas' creation - it was very much a shared enterprise. As the conversation goes on, Kasdan starts feeling more comfortable and takes a more active part in the conversation. The second is that this myth about Lucas being held back by his collaborators is the stuff of legend: Spielberg seems to be entirely on Lucas' wavelength here (if anything, he's pushing it further), and while Kasdan maybe slightly incredulous of the whole thing, he's nevertheless going along with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeping Strings 2,345 Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 Guess it was inevitable in the 'current climate' that that bit of Raiders would come under scrutiny ... it's a 40 year old movie set in a time 40 years before THAT, but 'it was a different time' doesn't seem to cut much ice with certain types. Next it'll be that the Nazis are treated too harshly in it, and should've been sent to bed with a slap on the wrist and no supper instead of exploding/melting/being filleted by a propeller etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,393 Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 Look, I don't want to be that easily offended millenial who cancels everything released before 2010 and such... But the sexual abuse of minors is something I simply don't tolerate. Believe me, one of my friends is a survival of abuse, and all I can say is that it's a horrible crime. One of the worst things that can happen to a person. It's a trauma very hard to forget. And you can't use the "but it was another era!" argument because this was also condemned back in the 80s. The Roman Polanski controversy happened a few years before the release of Raiders. I still love the movie and I don't want to cancel it. I just think that Indy having met Marion when she was a minor is a pretty bad attempt to make the character edgier that don't work like Lucas wanted to. Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,287 Posted June 12, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted June 12, 2021 It's a weird bit of character development that doesn't really enhance the film in any way and might have worked for a different actor and tone, but is at odds with what Ford brought to the character and should have been rewritten. As the film series went on, it stands out as more and more of a weird element of his past that nothing else they've shown for the character is ever remotely similar to. Yavar Moradi, Edmilson, Brónach and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick1Ø66 4,689 Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 Is there anything in the film, to indicate how old Marion was at the time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,499 Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 1 minute ago, Nick1066 said: Is there anything in the film, to indicate how old Marion was at the time? "I was a child, I was in love. It was wrong and you knew it!" "You knew what you were doing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 Indy was born in 1899 and Marion was born in 1909 The incident they talk about happened in 1925 when Indy was 25-26 and Marion was 15-16 Raiders takes place in 1936 when Indy is 36-37 and Marion is 26-27 When they get married in Indy 4, that's in 1957 when Indy is 57-58 and Marion is 47-48 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick1Ø66 4,689 Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 Yeah but the film never states her age. That's what's important when looking at this situation, give that we're not talking about real people. I looked it up. The age of consent in Illinois was 16 at the time. So unless Marion was 15 or younger (FWIW Karen Allen considered her 16 when their relationship occurred), and there's nothing in the film to indicate that, at a minimum Jones isn't guilty of statutory rape. You can say relationship still would have been "wrong" in a moral sense even if she was 16, given both her age and the age gap. But it wouldn't have been unusual for the time. And in any event not illegal. That said, certainly the way Lucas describes it in those script sessions is sleazy (and perhaps criminal) and it would have been better had they not included the suggestion at all. Honestly I don't know how Lucas (or Spielberg, who seemed to be going along with it) could have thought this is any way would make Indiana a more appealing character. But given that her age (or Indiana's age for that matter) is never stated in the film, I don't feel the need to engage in virtue signalling in 2021 and assume Indiana Jones is a rapist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,287 Posted June 12, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted June 12, 2021 I'd guess everyone involved would have preferred if they had some other sort of dialogue in that moment but what can you do Once, Edmilson, Nick1Ø66 and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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