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Indiana Jones 5 (James Mangold, June 30 2023)


Joe Brausam

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2 hours ago, artguy360 said:

Wow! This is great, thanks for sharing. The animation is really good for a proof of concept show opener. The music is also quite good with some parts sounding like Indiana Jones filtered thru Shirley Walker's Batman TAS sound.

 

Man. A Shirley Walker Indiana Jones cartoon series score. 


COULD

YOU

IMAGINE?!

 

 

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Looks like we can assume the film has used a temp track...

 

Mangold's temp track editor from previous films (Ted Caplan) is now listed on IMDB for Indy 5.

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5 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Looks like we can assume the film has used a temp track...

 

Mangold's temp track editor from previous films (Ted Caplan) is now listed on IMDB for Indy 5.

He did Catch Me if You Can too

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My biggest doubt is: will Mangold ask Williams to write something closer to his early 80s style or will he be satisfied with more modern, Sequel Trilogy-sounding score? Maybe in an attempt to recapture the "Raiders" spirit, he is going to try to emulate his younger self?

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18 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

My biggest doubt is: will Mangold ask Williams to write something closer to his early 80s style or will he be satisfied with more modern, Sequel Trilogy-sounding score? Maybe in an attempt to recapture the "Raiders" spirit, he is going to try to emulate his younger self?


Im sure it will be in Williams current style. Whatever that might be lol. 
 

I will say I thought Williams Force Awakens leaned closer to his OT sound than his PT scores (a bit less focus on “rhythmically-complex” type scoring and a bucket load of new themes/motifs)  But I’m sure that was a request from Abrams since the whole film was essentially a remake/reboot/re-quel.

 

So who knows! If Mangold is trying to “go back to the original spirit blah blah blah” I’d 100% be ok with this Indy score being the equivalent of Force Awakens in the franchise 😊

 

(Especially for its album presentation! Gosh I hope it’s not presented the way KoTCS was. Leaving off all those set pieces … )

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5 minutes ago, WampaRat said:

I will say I thought Williams Force Awakens leaned closer to his OT sound than his PT scores (a bit less focus on “rhythmically-complex” type scoring and a bucket load of new themes/motifs)  But I’m sure that was a request from Abrams since the whole film was essentially a remake/reboot/re-quel.

 

 

And even that one snuck in a "prog-rockian" cue with Follow Me and The Falcon

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3 minutes ago, Roll the Bones said:

And even that one snuck in a "prog-rockian" cue with Follow Me and The Falcon

Yeah! I actually love his current style. A nice blending of his classic 80s punchy themes and the razzle dazzle of his late 90s/early 2000s flare :)

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I think JW will attempt to write a somewhat more stripped back score, restrained in terms of the complexity of the orchestrations in the action music, and with more solos than we are used to in an Indy score. I think Mangold will want a sound both reminiscent of Raiders and more mature to reflect Indy's age.

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As long as its better than last crusade

 

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I see Last Crusade (both film and score) as a step down from Temple of Doom, so I don’t disagree completely. 

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6 minutes ago, Jay said:

I love all three Indiana Jones films and all three Indiana Jones scores

 

I love both Indiana Jones films and all four Indiana Jones scores. ;)

 

Yavar

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I … almost kinda sort of agree a little bit with Quentin Tarantino.

 

https://www.indiewire.com/2022/08/quentin-tarantino-indiana-jones-movie-ranking-1234751759/amp/

 

 I would say the high points of KOTCS thrill me more than some parts of TLC.  I can’t seem to forgive TLC for not having the traditional fist fight with a larger adversary. 

 

I remember listening to the TLC CD before the film came out and being underwhelmed after TOD.  I think that it soured it for me.   I still love it. Just not like the first two. 
 

I tire of the KOTCS criticisms of Shia, monkeys, and the fridge.  None of those bother me.  I actually like Shia’s performance.  KOTCS has really fun bits but it’s spoiled by a confusing and over baked script and yucky cinematography .   

 

 

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1 hour ago, Jay said:

I love all three Indiana Jones films and all three Indiana Jones scores

100% Agree

 

Whenever I'm going to rewatch Indy, I stop on TLC. I haven't bothered with Crystal Skull in over a decade. Decent John Williams score, though.

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1 hour ago, Yavar Moradi said:

 

I love both Indiana Jones films and all four Indiana Jones scores. ;)

 

Yavar

What about Raiders? ;)

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I was pretty lukewarm on the score for KOTCS. And the bad taste of the film didn’t do much to elevate it for me. But I eventually made a custom edit from the RS and trimmed it into a nice 70 min listening experience. If anyone wants to like the score more, this edit guide certainly helped me see it as worthy Williams romp. (This was from a thread I started 2 years ago)

On 6/3/2021 at 2:51 PM, WampaRat said:

I initially thought it was my complete disappointment with the film that impacted my appreciation of this score. I’d come back to the ost hoping to finally connect with it. It’s a friggin’ John Williams Indiana Jones score for crying out loud! But to me both the OST and the Recording Sessions lacked the terrific momentum that the other three releases had (99% the fault of the film I believe!) Half the ost release seemed to focus on skull theme. Which is a great theme. But I needed other material to balance it out. Imagine if the Raiders score was 45% the ark theme. Terrific theme. But it would lose its impact after a while. And the RS goes for long stretches before anything grabs my attention. But I really want to love this score. So here’s my ideal 79min album/ playlist I’ve created from editing tracks together from the recording sessions. 

 

Nevada, 1957 

(“Elvis and the Prairie Dog”+”Nevada,1957+ “Irina Spalko”)

Really needed this on the OST. Not a knock-out cue set by any means. But musically it brings us into the story and rolls out some of the new thematic material for this adventure

The Warehouse and Indy’s Great Escape

( “Revisiting the Ark (Revised)”+”Gun Powder”+”Indy’s Great Escape”+”The Rocket Sled”+”Indy Versus the Russian”+”Prairie Dog and Nuclear Cloud “)

Edited these as a giant 8 minute set piece. Another odd omission from the ost. Skipped on some of the start/stop bits (“unpacking” and “Indy Fights back) “Nuclear Cloud” makes for a great end cap on the piece.

Rough Couple of Years

(“Resignation”+”Remembering Henry Sr. & Leaving Campus”)

Some of my favorite moments on the prior Jones scores were the moments before the call to adventure. “Fathers Study”or “Thought for Marion” etc. Nice little moments to breathe before the plot begins.  

The Legend of Akator

(“Legend of Akator”+”Knife to a gunfight”)

I like this as the first tease of the Skull theme. Similar to “Washington Men” in its story placement musically speaking. And a great build to the next set piece. 

Whirl through Academe

(Same as OST)

Fun Breezy Indy action ala “Basket Games” or the train parts of “Indys First Adventure”

A Trip to Peru

(Same as Recording Session)

Off we go onto the main quest! 

Grave Robbers

(“The Chauchilla Graveyard”+”Grave Robbers”-RS version)

Love the fun spooky atmosphere of Chauchilla Graveyard before the frantic percussion kicks in.

Call of the Crystal

(Same as OST/RS)

Should be the equivalent of “Map Room:Dawn” as we realize musically what powers our characters are meddling with. 

Hello Jonesy

(“Russians Reappear 2”+”Hello Jonesy”)

Nice little map moment as our hero’s are captured by the baddie.

Ideograms

(“Ideograms”+ “Sleeping River Map”)

A little moment of sadness before this “forming a plan of escape” type music kicks in and builds

Quick Step Into Quicksand

(Same as OST/RS)

Another fun “Basket Games” type cue. Works great in the scene.

Marion’s Theme

(From Spielberg/Williams Collaboration v3.)

Nice new arrangement works terrifically here. 
To me as a listener, this creates a moment of reflection and brings in emotional stakes for Indy that were completely absent from the film itself)

The Waterfall

(Same as RS. )

While not Chronologically accurate, I like this as a kind of teaser/warm-up for the action that’s coming with “Jungle Chase” and “Ants!” For some reason placing it after those two it feels a bit redundant to me. Not sure why.

The Jungle Chase

(The Jungle Chase Begins +Irina’s Great Blade+Ugh Vines)

What’s there to say?  Cracking 10 minute action piece worthy of Dr Jones. 

Ants!

(Same as OST&RS)

Temple Ruins 

(Temple Ruins+Ugha Warriors)

Nice reminder of the skull theme since we haven’t heard it for a while on this playlist. Followed by fun frantic jungle percussion.

The City of Gold

(Same as RS)

Love the “War of the Worlds” quote and giant build in this one as our hero’s enter the final stage of their quest

Spalko’s Gift and The Secret Revealed

(Spalko’s Gift+The Secret Revealed)

Fantastic eerie build to the culmination of the Crystal Skull theme as the villains meet their demise. The albums equivalent of “The Miracle of the Ark”

The Departure

(Same as OST/RS)

The final moments of this cue *chefs kiss*

Treasures of Knowledge and Finale

( Knowledge Was Their Treasure+ The Wedding+ Finale*)

Sad the quote of Henry Sr theme never made it on the OST. Having it here is a nice bookended to the “resignation” track. And of course Williams leads us out with great suite of all the films prior themes. So I didn’t include any of the concert versions in this playlist except for the skull theme. Finally I edited in the original end of the Raiders March to replace the one where Williams weaves the Mutt Williams theme in and out. It’s clever. But if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it;)

 

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26 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

 

I don't understand this consensus amongst some of TLC being a step down - it's by far my favourite film and score of the series.


I think the majority agrees with you.  For most people, the father/son dynamic is endearing, and it feels more like Raiders with Nazis and desert.
 

That’s really cool that it’s your favorite score and film.  I like it too but just don’t love it as much as the others.  I’m splitting hairs because I adore them all. 
 

One thing that bothered me about the score is the recording.  I don’t pretend to be an expert or anything but it sounds very cheap and thin acoustically.    

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The recording definitely is the worst of the trilogy.

1 hour ago, Richard Penna said:

 

 

 

The score to a large extent is mirroring the silliness, with some fun OTT action pieces, but I think the middling suspense/drama scoring between the arrival in Peru and the Jungle Chase mirrors how spectacularly dull the Oxley and Skull storylines are.

It was definitely where his celeste suspense started to try my patience.

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7 hours ago, greenturnedblue said:

You guys dont like last crusade?

I see it as Least Crusade. Its a mistake. I can watch jt. The father son dynamic is great but the production values are, for a SS, very mediocre. 

 

Yes I am picky and unforgiving. Between the modern machine work on the cup to the lazy script, the keystone cop/nazi, I felt let down. I have at least 31 reason why its the least, or is it 21.

The score for LC is the weakest of the 4 scores to me.

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10 hours ago, Andy said:

 I can’t seem to forgive TLC for not having the traditional fist fight with a larger adversary. 

 

 

Maybe we will see the deleted scene someday

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Maybe it was part of the 'No Ticket' scene and then edited out.

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1 minute ago, Amer said:

Maybe it was part of the 'No Ticket' scene and then edited out.

Well, half that cue is missing in the film, so...

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Spielberg is weird when it comes to deleted scenes. I wish to see all of them but I doubt it’ll happen if he’s still alive and kicking.

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Yes I knew of that scene.   They had Pat Roach and wasted him in the wrong scene. It would’ve been perfect to have Indy ambushed by Pat Roach just before he got to the tank, maybe intercut with the Cruciform Brotherhood slaughter.   With a brassy fight ostinato-driven cue.  It would’ve made Kazim’s scene more interesting and it would’ve bloodied Indy up good, raising the rescue of Dad stakes even more.  
 

The KOTCS Dovchenko ant hill fight is absolutely spectacular and I’ll die on that (ant) hill.  I love how you can hear Harrison vocalize his punches (“Bam!”) like he’d probably done in rehearsal, but they kept it in the sound mix. It should be unintentionally funny, but it’s unintentionally awesome.  Ford is the best in the biz for this kind of knuckle swinging, and Last Crusade wasted that when he was still in his prime. Vogel?  Give me a break. 
 

That said, of course I love Last Crusade.  It’s got loads of goodwill and heart.  Hating on it is like kicking a puppy.  But if we’re honest with ourselves and it was Mangold (not Spielberg) who tried to explain the whip, fedora, snakes, and treasure hunting in a young Indy prologue, we’d be merciless with our torches. 

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Oddly enough the comic book adaptations of the Indy films include a ton of scenes that were cut from the films. The guys at the raider.net have a pretty comprehensive breakdown of deleted scenes from each movie 😊

 

Raiders:

http://www.theraider.net/films/raiders/deleted_scenes.php


Temple of Doom:

http://www.theraider.net/films/todoom/deleted_scenes.php

 

Last Crusade:

http://www.theraider.net/films/crusade/deleted_scenes.php

 

They don’t have Crystal skull on there that I could see. But I’m sure there are some.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Andy said:

I love how you can hear Harrison vocalize his punches (“Bam!”) like he’d probably done in rehearsal, but they kept it in the sound mix

 

Wait, really?

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Yeah. I noticed it really well in a theatrical mix, but you really have to listen. It’s when he’s throwing multiple punches and starting to win. 
 

Or I’m completely wrong and misremembering. 
 

 

I’m on my phone so can’t copy with the time stamp but at about 00:50, I thought I could hear Harrison. I may have mistaken it for Dovchenko’s reaction, but Harrison’s mouth is moving.  I’ll check my Blu Ray later… maybe I’m wrong. 

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I juts hear Dovchenko grunting  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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You may be right.  And it makes little sense that it wouldn’t all be ADR. 
 

But my brain had me convinced. 
 

But look, I tricked you into watching part of KOTCS again!

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Kaminski is a hack 

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