Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (James Mangold, June 30 2023)

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

25 minutes ago, Andy said:

Fine by me. I love that movie

Me too, it's so shitty

[Andy 4,078]

I guess something in me is either really simple, forgiving, or contrarian, but I was and still am genuinely surprised how derided it is. 

[Romão 2,274]

I wanted to scream at the director and screenwriter after I watched it. It's absolutely horrendous. I have never watched it since

[Brónach 1,301]

all i could think of was that the third act was extremely boring,  that Exegol is really boring, that the-dark-side-as-posession sucks, and that it sucked that film didn't give a shit about the droids. like, at least take the fun option and have C3PO guide you to the creepy planet. there are several cases of "take the most boring option".

 

i have one idea about Exegol, but it wouldn't have fit into the runtime. too many speeder chases.

 

of course, Carrie's death cripples the movie from the beginning, and it wouldn't have been possible to delay more the release. it was doomed.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

5 minutes ago, Andy said:

I guess something in me is either really simple, forgiving, or contrarian, but I was and still am genuinely surprised how derided it is. 

It reminds me of a classic shitty (but still has entertaining) movie I'd watch in the theaters as a teen, like X Men Origins Wolverine, or Land of Lost

[Andy 4,078]

So just curious, is it sincerely entertaining to you like a guilty pleasure, or ironically entertaining like a so bad it’s good movie?

 

Again, maybe it’s a character flaw, or a flaccid movie brain, but intend to not overthink my Star Wars. 
 

Edit: I don’t intend to portray myself as an ignorant idiot, because I don’t believe that I am.  I just tend to go with the flow and enjoy escapist entertainment if I can.  

[Chen G. 3,943]

24 minutes ago, Romão said:

I have never watched it since

 

I have. Its one of those movies that's bloody hillarious if you're in the right mood (and, preferably, inebriated).

[Brónach 1,301]

i was very depressed at the cinema.

 

the incredible horribleness of the prequels (which in some ways is worse horribleness, it's just stunning to be honest) is easier to romantize away because Disney is not involved and because i'm of a certain age so they've always been bad. (there's a lot of "if you grew up with the prequels you like them", which is really funny, because i don't).

 

 

[Andy 4,078]

[Brónach 1,301]

it has a secret weapon of mass destruction (a young action heroine)

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

52 minutes ago, Andy said:

So just curious, is it sincerely entertaining to you like a guilty pleasure, or ironically entertaining like a so bad it’s good movie?

It is those things but I also like some of the character beats and some of the broad strokes storytelling 

 

And it has some great JW themes

[Brónach 1,301]

I like, when Kylo fights Rey, that he has this WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU in his body language. Also he's obviously horny. It's kind of funny. Fun actor.

 

I'm sorry. Indiana Jones. And the Indiana Jones Thread. It's a movie.

[pete 903]

2 hours ago, Brónach said:

there's a lot of "if you grew up with the prequels you like them", which is really funny, because i don't).

 

 

 

And likewise, I never got the "you like the earlier films more because they're part of your childhood" Yes, they are part of my childhood, but I can look back at them now, especially in terms of story structure and plot and confidentally say that I also liked the earlier films better because they were better written, amongst other things.

 

Anyway, I was just curious what you were all talking about in the non-spoiler thread. I was wondering what there was to talk about! Back to spoliers for me! I'm a music fan first, film fan third or fourth. Just give me anything that'll make me wonder or saliva over what Williams could have come up with:  Indy drinks some coffee - wow, I can't wait to hear what Williams wrote for that!

[mrbellamy 6,272]

Hadn't thought of it like this in pure numbers lol. 

The Indiana Jones series is mostly finales! 

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

Can't wait for the next one!

[mrbellamy 6,272]

You mean the last one!

 

The funniest is still Friday the 13th: The Final Chapter being the fourth out of twelve 

[Cerebral Cortex 3,357]

43 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

You mean the last one!

 

The funniest is still Friday the 13th: The Final Chapter being the fourth out of twelve 

 

I fucking love that The Last Crusade will now be the middle film in the saga haha

[Sweeping Strings 2,344]

Tomatometer is now 50%, smack bang in the middle. 

Just for comparison - 

Raiders - 93%
TOD - 76%
Last Crusade - 84%
Crystal Skull - 77% 

Interesting that the lowest rated isn't Crystal Skull, albeit only by 1%.  

[Brónach 1,301]

Temple is worse than it's remembered as. But Skull is worse than it's remembered as.

[Nick1Ø66 4,687]

22 minutes ago, Sweeping Strings said:

Tomatometer is now 50%, smack bang in the middle. 

I think there’s enough of a sample size now to extrapolate where this film is going to land…i.e. around 65% in the high end and 35% on the low. Both are extremes, and neither is a good score. I suspect that it will end up where it is now…somewhere in low-mid 50’s when it’s all said and done.

 

Disney really did make a big gamble putting this out at Cannes. It’s not just the bad reviews, it’s their ripple effect. These kind of things take on a momentum & conventional wisdom, and the critics at Cannes tend to be fairly high profile and influential. Critics are definitely influenced by what their peers say. I wouldn’t be surprised if the overall negative early assessment doesn’t impact on some level the next wave of reviews in six weeks.

[eitam 364]

I'm a little surprised by the RT score so far, reviews here in France are mostly positive. 

[Chen G. 3,943]

52 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

It’s not just the bad reviews, it’s their ripple effect. These kind of things take on a momentum & conventional wisdom, and the critics at Cannes tend to be fairly high profile and influential.

 

There are already writeups about how poorly its recieved as Cannes. So obviously this is reverberating.

[Nick1Ø66 4,687]

18 minutes ago, eitam said:

I'm a little surprised by the RT score so far, reviews here in France are mostly positive. 

 

Well, the French love diesel automobiles & Jerry Lewis, so...

[Tom 4,633]

58 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

 

Well, the French love diesel automobiles & Jerry Lewis, so...

Go ahead and joke, as you are not German.  

[JNHFan2000 2,943]

Not to be disrespectful to the general movoe going audience. But I don't think they're influenced at all by Cannes' high profile critics.

Or critics in general. Look at Super Mario Brothers or Fast & Furious

[Nick1Ø66 4,687]

10 hours ago, JNHFan2000 said:

Not to be disrespectful to the general movoe going audience. But I don't think they're influenced at all by Cannes' high profile critics.

Or critics in general. Look at Super Mario Brothers or Fast & Furious

To be sure. The only people who are really influenced by movie critics are other movie critics.

 

Indy 5 is going to make money. A lot of it. If it underperforms, it’s because of a lack of repeat viewings and poor audience buzz, not bad reviews from critics.

 

That said, the bad reviews certainly don’t help. And while studios readily ignore bad reviews for things like The Transformers franchise (do any of them have a positive RT critics score?) because they make money & no one expects differently, you’ve got to think a director of Mangold’s quality and stature expected more.

[A. A. Ron 1,738]

Don’t underestimate the power of negative word of mouth.

[Edmilson 7,384]

16 minutes ago, A. A. Ron said:

Don’t underestimate the power of negative word of mouth.

It was what killed Batman v Superman and Josstice League back in 2016/7.

[Brónach 1,301]

i'm starting to think that this might be a failure not just with critics

[A. A. Ron 1,738]

See? We’ve already influenced at least one guy with out negativity!

[Alex 2,833]

Just remember:

 

 

[Bayesian 1,359]

I’m definitely in the “form my own opinion” category for TOD and KOTCS!

[Andy 4,078]

Indiana Jones Disenfranchisement Thread incoming…

[Naïve Old Fart 9,493]

I really do not understand this Luddite attitude, especially from JWfaners.

The film (which none of us has seen, by the way!), is 6 weeks away from general release.

Who knows what sort of last-minute reshoots, or adjustments, could be made.

Give the film a chance, guys.

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

Yeah, plenty of time for a complete re-edit!

[Naïve Old Fart 9,493]

I'm creating my own movie scoring system:

Rotten Tofartoes.

 

 

[Tom 4,633]

47 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

I really do not understand this Luddite attitude, especially from JWfaners.

The film (which none of us has seen, by the way!), is 6 weeks away from general release.

Who knows what sort of last-minute reshoots, or adjustments, could be made.

Give the film a chance, guys.

And a rescored ending.  "Hey John, one more cue."

 

[Nick1Ø66 4,687]

6 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

I really do not understand this Luddite attitude, especially from JWfaners.

The film (which none of us has seen, by the way!), is 6 weeks away from general release.

Who knows what sort of last-minute reshoots, or adjustments, could be made.

Give the film a chance, guys.

 

Mate, if we're talking about reshoots saving the film six weeks out (not going to happen), it's looking pretty bad

 

I'm giving the film a chance, I'd see an Indiana Jones film if it had half the RT score it has. But honestly, I'm not optimistic b/c many of the reviews do make it sound like I feared it would be.

[ThePenitentMan1 741]

1 minute ago, Tom said:

And a rescored ending.  "Hey John, one more cue."

 

 

"Why, Jim?"

 

"Because the Expansion in 20 years needs a satisfying ending for the Alternates section on Disc 3."

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

4 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

Mate, if we're talking about reshoots saving the film six weeks out (not going to happen), it's looking pretty bad

 

Didn't they do something similar with Rogue One?

[Nick1Ø66 4,687]

11 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

Didn't they do something similar with Rogue One?

 

They did extensive reshoots on Rogue One. But a lot more than six weeks out, and not after the film already premiered. And it was Tony Gilroy, not Gareth Edwards (who had already left the production) who did the reshoots, and he reportedly made significant changes to the film. I doubt Mangold is going to change his own film six weeks out to the extent Rogue One was changed, even if he could at this point.

 

It's certainly not unheard of to tinker with a film after the premiere, but how much they can actually do that this point to save it (even if Mangold thinks it needs saving, which I doubt)  is questionable.

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

4 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

 

They did extensive reshoots on Rogue One. But a lot more than six weeks out, and not after the film already premiered. And it was Tony Gilroy, not Gareth Edwards (who had already left the production) who did the reshoots, and he reportedly made significant changes to the film. I doubt Mangold is going to change his own film six weeks out to the extent Rogue One was changed, even if he could at this point.

 

It's certainly not unheard of to tinker with a film after the premiere, but how much they can actually do that this point to save it (even if Mangold thinks it needs saving, which I doubt)  is questionable.

 

Didn't they shoot the Vader ending very late? There's still time to tack on a Short Round ending, and everyone would be happy (even Yavar).

[Brando 1,855]

15 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Didn't they shoot the Vader ending very late?

IIRC that was a month or two before release. Maybe even less.

[Chen G. 3,943]

50 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

They did extensive reshoots on Rogue One. But a lot more than six weeks out, and not after the film already premiered. And it was Tony Gilroy, not Gareth Edwards (who had already left the production) who did the reshoots, and he reportedly made significant changes to the film. I doubt Mangold is going to change his own film six weeks out to the extent Rogue One was changed, even if he could at this point.

 

Right, and here they have six weeks to look at the reviews, look at the edit, decide what they want to shoot, wrangle the production crew, facilities and cast required for such reshoots, do VFX, and recut the whole thing.

 

You can't shoot even two weeks of pickups in a six-week notice.

[Brónach 1,301]

but you can delete things. just cut down the dumb pointless things like cameos and stuff. bad for us, though.

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

Delete the Short Round cameo.

[Richard Penna 3,669]

Of the people I talk to about films, not one of them would decide not to go to see a big blockbuster film based on a negative review from a film festival that no 'normal' people to go.

 

This is just an exercise for critics to debate amongst themselves.

[Cerebral Cortex 3,357]

On 18/05/2023 at 9:46 PM, Edmilson said:

Bob Iger Has Watched ‘Dial of Destiny’ Five Times — and Says More Indy Franchise Extensions Are Possible

The executive and director James Mangold beamed to IndieWire about the Harrison Ford movie at its big festival debut

 

[DarthDementous 1,059]

I’d only be worried if a critic that had my expectations for the movie came away disappointed, but from the snippets I’m hearing they were expecting a very different film to what I am

[Nick1Ø66 4,687]

13 hours ago, DarthDementous said:

I’d only be worried if a critic that had my expectations for the movie came away disappointed, but from the snippets I’m hearing they were expecting a very different film to what I am

 

How so? What kid of Indy film are you expecting?