Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (James Mangold, June 30 2023) - NO SPOILERS HERE

[Once 556]

8 hours ago, Bellosh said:

Does anyone have any examples of a character that's at least of the age 60, and the ACTOR is nearly 80 doing believable action scenes (without digital de-aging) where the audience believes it?

 

I'm honestly curious.

I'd say McKellen's and Lee's fight in Fellowship of the Ring was masterfully done. But of course part of the power of that scene comes from how rare it is to watch very, very old guys fighting.

[Jurassic Shark 10,661]

8 hours ago, Bellosh said:

Does anyone have any examples of a character that's at least of the age 60, and the ACTOR is nearly 80 doing believable action scenes (without digital de-aging) where the audience believes it?

 

I'm honestly curious.

 

Ever heard of stunt doubles?

[crocodile 7,542]

Well, he Vic Armstrong did the bulk of TOD stunt scenes so it wouldn't be anythong new really. 

 

Karol

[Goldfinger 57]

11 hours ago, Bellosh said:

Does anyone have any examples of a character that's at least of the age 60, and the ACTOR is nearly 80 doing believable action scenes (without digital de-aging) where the audience believes it?

 

I'm honestly curious.

 

Connery in The League of Extraordinary Gentleman was in his mid 70s playing a character at least that old.  No one questioned Connery or the action in the movie (there's plenty else there to be upset about but Connery was never questioned).

[Bellosh 2,686]

7 hours ago, DarthDementous said:

Arnold Schwarzenegger?

 

Didn't they digital de-age him though?  Arnold might be an outlier though, he's jacked even at the ripe ole age of 73.

 

5 hours ago, Once said:

I'd say McKellen's and Lee's fight in Fellowship of the Ring was masterfully done. But of course part of the power of that scene comes from how rare it is to watch very, very old guys fighting.

 

I should have clarified I meant more of the character NOT the actor. Both wizards/maiar, we can suspend our disbelief.  Also we expect them to look old.  The character of Indy has always been grounded in reality, while the circumstances are not.

 

5 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Ever heard of stunt doubles?

 

The character not the actor.  shit they shot most of the action in the actual Temple of Doom while Ford was healing from a herniated disc.

 

2 hours ago, Goldfinger said:

Connery in The League of Extraordinary Gentleman was in his mid 70s playing a character at least that old.  No one questioned Connery or the action in the movie (there's plenty else there to be upset about but Connery was never questioned).

 

This might be a decent example.  No digital de-aging?  Also, I'm not too familiar with The League of Extraordinary Gentleman...are they comic book characters with super abilities?  If so, that kinda isn't what I meant.

[Jurassic Shark 10,661]

What was Connery's super ability? Being able to walk upright and remember where he last saw his keys?

 

14 hours ago, Bellosh said:

Does anyone have any examples of a character that's at least of the age 60, and the ACTOR is nearly 80 doing believable action scenes (without digital de-aging) where the audience believes it?

 

I'm honestly curious.

 

Bruce Willis in the later Die Hards?

[Bellosh 2,686]

okay now we're getting somewhere...believable

[mstrox 6,058]

I’ll reserve all judgment until I see the movie - I had “age fears” for KOTCS at the time and it ended up not being an issue for me.  I suspect that with a combination of script concessions, stunt work, and the same suspension of disbelief  that you have to pack for any movie like this, it’ll be fine.  
 

I do strongly believe that they should hire an even older guy to be Ford’s stunt double, though.

[Jurassic Shark 10,661]

1 minute ago, mstrox said:

I’ll reserve all judgment until I see the movie - I had “age fears” for KOTCS at the time and it ended up not being an issue for me.  I suspect that with a combination of script concessions, stunt work, and the same suspension of disbelief  that you have to pack for any movie like this, it’ll be fine.  

 

They were wise to make an awful script to distract from Indy's age.

 

2 minutes ago, mstrox said:

I do strongly believe that they should hire an even older guy to be Ford’s stunt double, though.

 

Connery is ripe for the role.

[Wojo 2,450]

There was nothing wise about Indy IV. 

 

Connery is a little past ripe, depending on the quality of his casket. 

[Bellosh 2,686]

8 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

They were wise to make an awful script to distract from Indy's age.

 

[Jurassic Shark 10,661]

7 minutes ago, If You See Kay Off said:

Connery is a little past ripe, depending on the quality of his casket. 

 

He'd turn in exactly the lackluster performance to match the movie.

[Bellosh 2,686]

18 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Bruce Willis in the later Die Hards?

 

good example.

 

but would it have worked if Willis was 80 in that Die Hard movie, like how it will be in this?

[Jurassic Shark 10,661]

I guess we'll find out in a few years.

[Bellosh 2,686]

did they digital de-age him in BR 2049?  cause he looked great there.  could totally picture him roughing up some baddies in Indy 5.

 

[Jurassic Shark 10,661]

They cut his hair and trimmed his beard.

[Edmilson 5,674]

Maybe Indy will use his walking stick to hit the bad guys?

[Jurassic Shark 10,661]

He'll roll over them.

[mrbellamy 5,893]

17 hours ago, Bellosh said:

Does anyone have any examples of a character that's at least of the age 60, and the ACTOR is nearly 80 doing believable action scenes (without digital de-aging) where the audience believes it?

 

I'm honestly curious.

 

Danny Trejo is 76 doing action movies, I haven't seen them so don't know how believable he is lately. This was him at close to 70.

 

 

Obviously this stretches the definition of "believable"  but he is one hard motherfucker for sure.

[Bellosh 2,686]

That's actually a very good example!

[mstrox 6,058]

It doesn’t hurt that Danny Trejo has looked 76 since he was 40

[Alex 2,694]

Didn’t Christopher Lee do at least the upper body fighting in the prequels?

[bruce marshall 1,275]

Jaguar, Ringo, Dylan, McCartney still
 tour.

Just sayin'

What about the old guy in BETTER CALL SAUL.

He kicks much.butt in that.show( and gets beat.up.also)?

[Laserschwert 371]

To be fair, Trejo moves like an old tree, and any agility he might show in movies is just achieved through editing.

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,223]

Morgan Freeman in Going in Style has some terrific action sequences and he was about the same age than Ford:

[Nick1Ø66 3,856]

15 hours ago, Edmilson said:

Maybe Indy will use his walking stick to hit the bad guys?

Hey you call him Dr. Jones!

[Goldfinger 57]

20 hours ago, Bellosh said:

This might be a decent example.  No digital de-aging?  Also, I'm not too familiar with The League of Extraordinary Gentleman...are they comic book characters with super abilities?  If so, that kinda isn't what I meant.

 

Nah, he was just playing Alan Quartermaine.  Yes, he was surrounded by supernatural characters but he was just an old guy adventurer, the same as Indy.

 

I think people overestimate what people are willing to suspend their disbelief for. Yes, Ford is nearly 80 but the most popular films currently include talking trees, purple Spacemen bent on world destruction, and people with other superhuman powers.  If the script is good and the film is well done, people won't pick on Ford for his age.  If the film is crap like Crystal Skull was, well, then we'll get the same type of response.

 

[Ollie 915]

16 hours ago, mrbellamy said:

 

Danny Trejo is 76 doing action movies, I haven't seen them so don't know how believable he is lately. This was him at close to 70.

 

 

Obviously this stretches the definition of "believable"  but he is one hard motherfucker for sure.

 

Machete looked Father Time in the face and said “Machete don’t age!”

[Nick1Ø66 3,856]

38 minutes ago, Goldfinger said:

 

Nah, he was just playing Alan Quartermaine.  Yes, he was surrounded by supernatural characters but he was just an old guy adventurer, the same as Indy.

 

I think people overestimate what people are willing to suspend their disbelief for. Yes, Ford is nearly 80 but the most popular films currently include talking trees, purple Spacemen bent on world destruction, and people with other superhuman powers.  If the script is good and the film is well done, people won't pick on Ford for his age.  If the film is crap like Crystal Skull was, well, then we'll get the same type of response.

 

 

🤔

[Jay 33,670]

Mads Mikkelsen:

 

Quote

“I’m very, very excited about it,” he replied. “I rewatched Raiders of the Lost Ark the other day, it is so well-done and so charming, and it’s such great storytelling. So yes, it’s a great honor to be part of that franchise that I grew up with…I’m in a lucky position where they let me read the script before. And yes, it was everything I wished it to be, so that was just great.”

 

https://www.slashfilm.com/indiana-jones-5-script-mads-mikkelsen/

[Nick1Ø66 3,856]

I'm not sure what else he could say.

 

After what happened to Shia LeBoeuf, I doubt anyone associated with Indy will ever utter any word about this franchise unless its effusive praise ever again.

 

Don't cross the Baseball Cap.

[Jay 33,670]

Haha, yep

[Jules 59]

On 5/4/2021 at 7:31 AM, Disco Stu said:

As someone who has been listening since before they were called Blank Check, when it was a Star Wars podcast, I’m only happy about how crazy popular their show has gotten

I just jumped on their Patreon! Love those guys

 

[Tom 4,002]

On 5/4/2021 at 12:33 PM, Bellosh said:

 

good example.

 

but would it have worked if Willis was 80 in that Die Hard movie, like how it will be in this?

That would never work--he'll surely be bald by then.

[crumbs 13,540]

On 5/6/2021 at 7:32 AM, Jay said:

Mads Mikkelsen:

 

https://www.slashfilm.com/indiana-jones-5-script-mads-mikkelsen/

 

Also interesting from that interview...

 

Mikkelsen: "Interesting enough, again a little like Riders of Justice, there is kind of a genre mix in Indiana Jones always. There is something that is a little larger-than-life, almost back to the 30s with a Peter Lorre kind of feel, and then you have Indiana Jones who kind of is a straight man. But he does produce a lot of funny and interesting things, but there are different character genres in some of those films."

 

 

On 5/8/2020 at 9:48 PM, crumbs said:

I don't see why they couldn't try a different approach with the character; something less action-focused and more of a private investigator role (think Humphrey Bogart in his film noir roles), inspecting some nefarious foreign activities (like Nazis searching for artifacts in Cairo).

 

On 8/8/2019 at 4:40 PM, crumbs said:

It would've been nice if Spielberg doubled down on the film noire style (in the vein of a Humphrey Bogart mystery) but the film ended up some bizarre hybrid of styles.

 

On 3/20/2016 at 5:13 PM, crumbs said:

I'm looking forward to the setting though. I enjoyed the way Spielberg integrated the 50s into KOTCS. Indiana Jones is an interesting contrast to the world of the 60's. Humphrey Bogart's latter years would be a cool inspiration.

 

On 1/1/2016 at 3:49 PM, crumbs said:

I think they were on the right path changing the tone of the film to suit the era it was set. But the genre that would've made more sense was film-noir. A wisened, investigative Indy looking into a Soviet plot or mystery in the vein of Humphrey Bogart would've been fascinating and allowed Harrison to reinterpret the role rather than recapture a character he can't play anymore.

 

Imagine his first appearance a shadowy silhouette with atmosphere and smoke. Kaminski could've gone to town and it would've played into Spielberg's modern sensibilities.

 

 

 

 

[Fabulin 3,465]

Quote

Mikkelsen: "Interesting enough, again a little like Riders of Justice, there is kind of a genre mix in Indiana Jones always. There is something that is a little larger-than-life, almost back to the 30s with a Peter Lorre kind of feel, and then you have Indiana Jones who kind of is a straight man. But he does produce a lot of funny and interesting things, but there are different character genres in some of those films."

Summary of "Riders of Justice" (2020):

Quote

(...) approached by a man named Otto (who was on the same train with Markus's wife) who informs him that the train accident wasn't a coincidence, but a planned murder to eliminate a key witness about to give evidence (...) identifies a suspicious man (...) interrogate (...) evidence (...) interrogate (...) The Riders attempt a drive-by shooting on the group, but Markus is able to kill the attackers (...)

 

Peter Lorre's character in The Maltese Falcon approached Bogart with a quest and offer.

 

So... we've got ourselves The Maltese Falcon (notably a film with an archeological topic!), but with more action and violence.

 

A perfect stylistic ground for throwback music!

[crumbs 13,540]

Oh I'd be thrilled if they asked for a Golden Hollywood mystery/thriller throwback score from JW, something in the vein of The Maltese Falcon. Or even a seductive jazz score laced with saxophone (aka JW's score for CMIYC, also set in the 60s). Indy in a 60s New York jazz club would be fun!

 

I'm guessing one of the appeals of scoring Indy films is how malleable they are for musical genres. Williams can do almost anything with these themes and make it work.

[Fabulin 3,465]

 

Indy V (2021/2022) will be as far from Raiders (1981) as Raiders was from The Maltese Falcon (1941). With Williams as a relic of the era (playing with Shirley Temple on the Fox lot, working under Alfred Newman), this could well be the last "great" score with direct roots in the Golden Age.

 

 

 

[Jurassic Shark 10,661]

Ah, you're forgetting we've still got HanZ.

[Jay 33,670]

2 minutes ago, Fabulin said:

Indy V (2021/2022) will be as far from Raiders (1981) as Raiders was from The Maltese Falcon (1941). 

 

...

 

Damn!

[eitam 345]

6 minutes ago, Fabulin said:

playing with Shirley Temple on the Fox lot

 

Wait, for real ? 

[crumbs 13,540]

11 minutes ago, Fabulin said:

Indy V (2021/2022) will be as far from Raiders (1981) as Raiders was from The Maltese Falcon (1941). With Williams as a relic of the era (playing with Shirley Temple on the Fox lot, working under Alfred Newman), this could well be the last "great" score with direct roots in the Golden Age.

 

Well, that certainly puts it in perspective...

 

Someone should tweet that to Mangold!! I reckon he'd love trivia like this.

[Fabulin 3,465]

27 minutes ago, crumbs said:

 

Well, that certainly puts it in perspective...

 

Someone should tweet that to Mangold!! I reckon he'd love trivia like this.

Done!

 

https://twitter.com/KFabulin/status/1390664254513160196

[WampaRat 1,101]

The music at :50 would work terrifically in a more detective-based noir-ish Indy story! It could work in a 60s era setting too (not every score sounded like a swingin’ Mancini soundtrack back then) I don’t want Williams to go tooo far down the CMIYC route;)

This wholeshort cue is great btw. Try’s to give heart to a film with little of it.

 

[Fabulin 3,465]

1 hour ago, crumbs said:

Imagine his first appearance a shadowy silhouette with atmosphere and smoke. Kaminski could've gone to town and it would've played into Spielberg's modern sensibilities.

 

 

 

In Mangold's recent tweets there is a lot of black & white photography, of both the Hollywood and real world variety.

 

 

 

[crumbs 13,540]

I'd be stoked if they went that direction because cartoon antics like Temple of Doom would be a little... weird with an old Indy.

And I like the idea of returning to a Belloq-style antagonist that has Indy's measure. Even though all the villains are memorable, none have had a pre-existing relationship with Indy since Raiders; making it personal seems fitting for the final chapter.

[Holko 8,625]

1 minute ago, crumbs said:

none have had a pre-existing relationship with Indy since Raiders; making it personal seems fitting for the final chapter.

oh god please don't let it be a crime gang of Sallah's children or Short Round or something. Make up someone new like Mac(... okay, not the greatest example, let's say Broadbent) that we're told he has a preexisting relationship with, that's a lot better than forcing old characters into reprising roles or turning coats for nostalgia.

[crumbs 13,540]

Just now, Holko said:

oh god please don't let it be a crime gang of Sallah's children or Short Round or something. Make up someone new like Mac(... okay, not the greatest example, let's say Broadbent) that we're told he has a preexisting relationship with, that's a lot better than forcing old characters into reprising roles or turning coats for nostalgia.

 

Oh of course, it should definitely be a new character. Enough of the old characters being shoehorned in, time for something new.

 

So long as it's not horrible shite like Mac

[Nick1Ø66 3,856]

How can we be absolutely sure Belloq was completely melted at the end of Raiders? The Ark is like nothing we’ve ever seen before...no one knows its secrets.
 

Perhaps something new, and unholy, was born out of the puddle of goo that was Bellosh.
 

 

[Holko 8,625]

4 minutes ago, Nick1066 said:

How can we be absolutely sure Belloq was completely melted at the end of Raiders? The Ark is like nothing we’ve ever seen before...no one knows its secrets.
 

Perhaps something new, and unholy, was born out of the puddle of goo that was Bellosh.
 

 

That's so perfect because Belloq exploded but everyone always only focuses on Toht melting.