WampaRat 1,105 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 2 hours ago, artguy360 said: Wow! This is great, thanks for sharing. The animation is really good for a proof of concept show opener. The music is also quite good with some parts sounding like Indiana Jones filtered thru Shirley Walker's Batman TAS sound. Man. A Shirley Walker Indiana Jones cartoon series score. COULD YOU IMAGINE?! Yavar Moradi and artguy360 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,310 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 Looks like we can assume the film has used a temp track... Mangold's temp track editor from previous films (Ted Caplan) is now listed on IMDB for Indy 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 5 minutes ago, crumbs said: Looks like we can assume the film has used a temp track... Mangold's temp track editor from previous films (Ted Caplan) is now listed on IMDB for Indy 5. He did Catch Me if You Can too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,310 Posted August 16, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 16, 2022 1 hour ago, Not Mr. Big said: He did Catch Me if You Can too Only as a sound effects editor though, but clearly he's been around the industry a while. He was also the uncredited temp track editor on The Book Thief, so there's another Williams connection. Otherwise he's been the music supervisor/editor for all Mangold's films since 2007. A bit sad Williams is dealing with a temp track for his final film score (for an Indiana Jones score no less) but I guess even Spielberg and Lucas employed temps. I know KOCS has its fans but I really hope there's a lot more TOD and Raiders in the temp than KOCS. Andy, Brando and Edmilson 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 2,835 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 Maybe he did a Rian Johnson and just used a loads of previous Indy music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 You can assume every film used a temp track. Tom 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,352 Posted August 16, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 16, 2022 Just because this film has a temp track does not mean JW will ever hear it, or ever be asked to emulate it. Temp tracks serve many purposes, telling the composer what type of music is wanted isn't always one of them Yavar Moradi, DarthDementous, Brando and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,436 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 My biggest doubt is: will Mangold ask Williams to write something closer to his early 80s style or will he be satisfied with more modern, Sequel Trilogy-sounding score? Maybe in an attempt to recapture the "Raiders" spirit, he is going to try to emulate his younger self? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Faleel 5,346 Posted August 16, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 16, 2022 Its gonna sound like 2022/2023 JW Fabulin, Tom and Remco 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WampaRat 1,105 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 18 minutes ago, Edmilson said: My biggest doubt is: will Mangold ask Williams to write something closer to his early 80s style or will he be satisfied with more modern, Sequel Trilogy-sounding score? Maybe in an attempt to recapture the "Raiders" spirit, he is going to try to emulate his younger self? Im sure it will be in Williams current style. Whatever that might be lol. I will say I thought Williams Force Awakens leaned closer to his OT sound than his PT scores (a bit less focus on “rhythmically-complex” type scoring and a bucket load of new themes/motifs) But I’m sure that was a request from Abrams since the whole film was essentially a remake/reboot/re-quel. So who knows! If Mangold is trying to “go back to the original spirit blah blah blah” I’d 100% be ok with this Indy score being the equivalent of Force Awakens in the franchise 😊 (Especially for its album presentation! Gosh I hope it’s not presented the way KoTCS was. Leaving off all those set pieces … ) Brando 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,346 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 5 minutes ago, WampaRat said: I will say I thought Williams Force Awakens leaned closer to his OT sound than his PT scores (a bit less focus on “rhythmically-complex” type scoring and a bucket load of new themes/motifs) But I’m sure that was a request from Abrams since the whole film was essentially a remake/reboot/re-quel. And even that one snuck in a "prog-rockian" cue with Follow Me and The Falcon WampaRat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WampaRat 1,105 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 3 minutes ago, Roll the Bones said: And even that one snuck in a "prog-rockian" cue with Follow Me and The Falcon Yeah! I actually love his current style. A nice blending of his classic 80s punchy themes and the razzle dazzle of his late 90s/early 2000s flare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artguy360 1,843 Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 I think JW will attempt to write a somewhat more stripped back score, restrained in terms of the complexity of the orchestrations in the action music, and with more solos than we are used to in an Indy score. I think Mangold will want a sound both reminiscent of Raiders and more mature to reflect Indy's age. Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 As long as its better than last crusade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy 4,123 Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 I see Last Crusade (both film and score) as a step down from Temple of Doom, so I don’t disagree completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,516 Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 From 1981, to 2008, it has been a case of diminishing returns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenturnedblue 372 Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 You guys dont like last crusade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,352 Posted August 17, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 17, 2022 I love all three Indiana Jones films and all three Indiana Jones scores Joe Brausam, fommes, Edmilson and 2 others 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,651 Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 I agree with Jason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Brando 1,863 Posted August 17, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 17, 2022 I love them all. I think KOTCS's score is very underrated. Andy, Raiders of the SoundtrArk and JoeinAR 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yavar Moradi 2,599 Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 6 minutes ago, Jay said: I love all three Indiana Jones films and all three Indiana Jones scores I love both Indiana Jones films and all four Indiana Jones scores. Yavar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy 4,123 Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 I … almost kinda sort of agree a little bit with Quentin Tarantino. https://www.indiewire.com/2022/08/quentin-tarantino-indiana-jones-movie-ranking-1234751759/amp/ I would say the high points of KOTCS thrill me more than some parts of TLC. I can’t seem to forgive TLC for not having the traditional fist fight with a larger adversary. I remember listening to the TLC CD before the film came out and being underwhelmed after TOD. I think that it soured it for me. I still love it. Just not like the first two. I tire of the KOTCS criticisms of Shia, monkeys, and the fridge. None of those bother me. I actually like Shia’s performance. KOTCS has really fun bits but it’s spoiled by a confusing and over baked script and yucky cinematography . Brando 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,436 Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Jay said: I love all three Indiana Jones films and all three Indiana Jones scores 100% Agree Whenever I'm going to rewatch Indy, I stop on TLC. I haven't bothered with Crystal Skull in over a decade. Decent John Williams score, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,346 Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Yavar Moradi said: I love both Indiana Jones films and all four Indiana Jones scores. Yavar What about Raiders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Richard Penna 3,686 Posted August 17, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 17, 2022 4 hours ago, Andy said: I see Last Crusade (both film and score) as a step down from Temple of Doom, so I don’t disagree completely. I don't understand this consensus amongst some of TLC being a step down - it's by far my favourite film and score of the series. KotCS film-wise is just silly with extremely dodgy visuals. I haven't seen the film in full since it came out and I'm really not in a hurry to watch it again. The score to a large extent is mirroring the silliness, with some fun OTT action pieces, but I think the middling suspense/drama scoring between the arrival in Peru and the Jungle Chase mirrors how spectacularly dull the Oxley and Skull storylines are. Andy, Edmilson, WampaRat and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WampaRat 1,105 Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 I was pretty lukewarm on the score for KOTCS. And the bad taste of the film didn’t do much to elevate it for me. But I eventually made a custom edit from the RS and trimmed it into a nice 70 min listening experience. If anyone wants to like the score more, this edit guide certainly helped me see it as worthy Williams romp. (This was from a thread I started 2 years ago) On 6/3/2021 at 2:51 PM, WampaRat said: I initially thought it was my complete disappointment with the film that impacted my appreciation of this score. I’d come back to the ost hoping to finally connect with it. It’s a friggin’ John Williams Indiana Jones score for crying out loud! But to me both the OST and the Recording Sessions lacked the terrific momentum that the other three releases had (99% the fault of the film I believe!) Half the ost release seemed to focus on skull theme. Which is a great theme. But I needed other material to balance it out. Imagine if the Raiders score was 45% the ark theme. Terrific theme. But it would lose its impact after a while. And the RS goes for long stretches before anything grabs my attention. But I really want to love this score. So here’s my ideal 79min album/ playlist I’ve created from editing tracks together from the recording sessions. Nevada, 1957 (“Elvis and the Prairie Dog”+”Nevada,1957+ “Irina Spalko”) Really needed this on the OST. Not a knock-out cue set by any means. But musically it brings us into the story and rolls out some of the new thematic material for this adventure The Warehouse and Indy’s Great Escape ( “Revisiting the Ark (Revised)”+”Gun Powder”+”Indy’s Great Escape”+”The Rocket Sled”+”Indy Versus the Russian”+”Prairie Dog and Nuclear Cloud “) Edited these as a giant 8 minute set piece. Another odd omission from the ost. Skipped on some of the start/stop bits (“unpacking” and “Indy Fights back) “Nuclear Cloud” makes for a great end cap on the piece. Rough Couple of Years (“Resignation”+”Remembering Henry Sr. & Leaving Campus”) Some of my favorite moments on the prior Jones scores were the moments before the call to adventure. “Fathers Study”or “Thought for Marion” etc. Nice little moments to breathe before the plot begins. The Legend of Akator (“Legend of Akator”+”Knife to a gunfight”) I like this as the first tease of the Skull theme. Similar to “Washington Men” in its story placement musically speaking. And a great build to the next set piece. Whirl through Academe (Same as OST) Fun Breezy Indy action ala “Basket Games” or the train parts of “Indys First Adventure” A Trip to Peru (Same as Recording Session) Off we go onto the main quest! Grave Robbers (“The Chauchilla Graveyard”+”Grave Robbers”-RS version) Love the fun spooky atmosphere of Chauchilla Graveyard before the frantic percussion kicks in. Call of the Crystal (Same as OST/RS) Should be the equivalent of “Map Room:Dawn” as we realize musically what powers our characters are meddling with. Hello Jonesy (“Russians Reappear 2”+”Hello Jonesy”) Nice little map moment as our hero’s are captured by the baddie. Ideograms (“Ideograms”+ “Sleeping River Map”) A little moment of sadness before this “forming a plan of escape” type music kicks in and builds Quick Step Into Quicksand (Same as OST/RS) Another fun “Basket Games” type cue. Works great in the scene. Marion’s Theme (From Spielberg/Williams Collaboration v3.) Nice new arrangement works terrifically here. To me as a listener, this creates a moment of reflection and brings in emotional stakes for Indy that were completely absent from the film itself) The Waterfall (Same as RS. ) While not Chronologically accurate, I like this as a kind of teaser/warm-up for the action that’s coming with “Jungle Chase” and “Ants!” For some reason placing it after those two it feels a bit redundant to me. Not sure why. The Jungle Chase (The Jungle Chase Begins +Irina’s Great Blade+Ugh Vines) What’s there to say? Cracking 10 minute action piece worthy of Dr Jones. Ants! (Same as OST&RS) Temple Ruins (Temple Ruins+Ugha Warriors) Nice reminder of the skull theme since we haven’t heard it for a while on this playlist. Followed by fun frantic jungle percussion. The City of Gold (Same as RS) Love the “War of the Worlds” quote and giant build in this one as our hero’s enter the final stage of their quest Spalko’s Gift and The Secret Revealed (Spalko’s Gift+The Secret Revealed) Fantastic eerie build to the culmination of the Crystal Skull theme as the villains meet their demise. The albums equivalent of “The Miracle of the Ark” The Departure (Same as OST/RS) The final moments of this cue *chefs kiss* Treasures of Knowledge and Finale ( Knowledge Was Their Treasure+ The Wedding+ Finale*) Sad the quote of Henry Sr theme never made it on the OST. Having it here is a nice bookended to the “resignation” track. And of course Williams leads us out with great suite of all the films prior themes. So I didn’t include any of the concert versions in this playlist except for the skull theme. Finally I edited in the original end of the Raiders March to replace the one where Williams weaves the Mutt Williams theme in and out. It’s clever. But if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it;) Smeltington 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy 4,123 Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 26 minutes ago, Richard Penna said: I don't understand this consensus amongst some of TLC being a step down - it's by far my favourite film and score of the series. I think the majority agrees with you. For most people, the father/son dynamic is endearing, and it feels more like Raiders with Nazis and desert. That’s really cool that it’s your favorite score and film. I like it too but just don’t love it as much as the others. I’m splitting hairs because I adore them all. One thing that bothered me about the score is the recording. I don’t pretend to be an expert or anything but it sounds very cheap and thin acoustically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,346 Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 The recording definitely is the worst of the trilogy. 1 hour ago, Richard Penna said: The score to a large extent is mirroring the silliness, with some fun OTT action pieces, but I think the middling suspense/drama scoring between the arrival in Peru and the Jungle Chase mirrors how spectacularly dull the Oxley and Skull storylines are. It was definitely where his celeste suspense started to try my patience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted August 18, 2022 Share Posted August 18, 2022 7 hours ago, greenturnedblue said: You guys dont like last crusade? I see it as Least Crusade. Its a mistake. I can watch jt. The father son dynamic is great but the production values are, for a SS, very mediocre. Yes I am picky and unforgiving. Between the modern machine work on the cup to the lazy script, the keystone cop/nazi, I felt let down. I have at least 31 reason why its the least, or is it 21. The score for LC is the weakest of the 4 scores to me. Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Romão 2,274 Posted August 18, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 18, 2022 No Indiana Jones score gives such a strong feeling of globetrotting adventure as Last Crusade. Mind you, Raiders and TOD are absolutely brilliant scores. But apart from its opening acts, they do feel like they are taking place in the same location for the majority of it. Which is not a slight whatsoever on those scores, its due to the nature of the movies themselves. But I just love the way the Last Crusade makes me feel like I'm travelling all over the world on a quest. And those transitions between locales are stunning. There's a forward motion to it. And that grail theme is just gold... Brando, Holko, Edmilson and 2 others 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Brando 1,863 Posted August 18, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 18, 2022 Doom is my favorite Indy film and score, but there’s something about Crusade that screams nostalgia for me, in a good way. I remember watching it quite a bit when I was a kid with my grandfather, and something about Crusade reminds me of being a child. Andy, Holko and JoeinAR 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,310 Posted August 18, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 18, 2022 11 hours ago, Romão said: But I just love the way the Last Crusade makes me feel like I'm travelling all over the world on a quest. And those transitions between locales are stunning. There's a forward motion to it. And that grail theme is just gold... Not to mention the variety of locations – Utah, England, Italy, Jordan and Spain. It felt like a globetrotting adventure because they actually traveled to shoot it. Doom has some great locations too but a big chunk of the film feels constrained to soundstages (albeit with some magnificent sets). KOCS was the worst offender though. Painfully obvious most of the film was shot on soundstages or a backlot, and the location shooting was CGI-enhanced to the point of looking fake (no thanks to Kaminski's glossy photography). The sets didn't hold a handle to anything in the original trilogy either. Glad to see Mangold making an effort to rectify this with 5. Hopefully the exotic locations will be reflected in Williams' music. Edmilson, greenturnedblue and Brando 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,795 Posted August 18, 2022 Share Posted August 18, 2022 10 hours ago, Andy said: I can’t seem to forgive TLC for not having the traditional fist fight with a larger adversary. Maybe we will see the deleted scene someday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,516 Posted August 18, 2022 Share Posted August 18, 2022 28 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said: Maybe we will see the deleted scene someday I'd rather see the extra courses of the banquet, and the scene where Willie runs back to Chattar Lal. Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post WampaRat 1,105 Posted August 18, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 18, 2022 7 hours ago, Luke Skywalker said: Maybe we will see the deleted scene someday There was a “Pat Roach” fight. Just not an intense Airplane/Rock Crusher type sequence. Probably a good idea that it was cut. Brando, Andy and Naïve Old Fart 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,516 Posted August 18, 2022 Share Posted August 18, 2022 That's brilliant! I never knew that anything like this existed. Now, can you rustle up the Reifenstahl scene? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amer 2,102 Posted August 18, 2022 Share Posted August 18, 2022 Maybe it was part of the 'No Ticket' scene and then edited out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,525 Posted August 18, 2022 Share Posted August 18, 2022 1 minute ago, Amer said: Maybe it was part of the 'No Ticket' scene and then edited out. Well, half that cue is missing in the film, so... Brando and Yavar Moradi 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brando 1,863 Posted August 18, 2022 Share Posted August 18, 2022 Spielberg is weird when it comes to deleted scenes. I wish to see all of them but I doubt it’ll happen if he’s still alive and kicking. Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy 4,123 Posted August 18, 2022 Share Posted August 18, 2022 Yes I knew of that scene. They had Pat Roach and wasted him in the wrong scene. It would’ve been perfect to have Indy ambushed by Pat Roach just before he got to the tank, maybe intercut with the Cruciform Brotherhood slaughter. With a brassy fight ostinato-driven cue. It would’ve made Kazim’s scene more interesting and it would’ve bloodied Indy up good, raising the rescue of Dad stakes even more. The KOTCS Dovchenko ant hill fight is absolutely spectacular and I’ll die on that (ant) hill. I love how you can hear Harrison vocalize his punches (“Bam!”) like he’d probably done in rehearsal, but they kept it in the sound mix. It should be unintentionally funny, but it’s unintentionally awesome. Ford is the best in the biz for this kind of knuckle swinging, and Last Crusade wasted that when he was still in his prime. Vogel? Give me a break. That said, of course I love Last Crusade. It’s got loads of goodwill and heart. Hating on it is like kicking a puppy. But if we’re honest with ourselves and it was Mangold (not Spielberg) who tried to explain the whip, fedora, snakes, and treasure hunting in a young Indy prologue, we’d be merciless with our torches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WampaRat 1,105 Posted August 18, 2022 Share Posted August 18, 2022 Oddly enough the comic book adaptations of the Indy films include a ton of scenes that were cut from the films. The guys at the raider.net have a pretty comprehensive breakdown of deleted scenes from each movie 😊 Raiders: http://www.theraider.net/films/raiders/deleted_scenes.php Temple of Doom: http://www.theraider.net/films/todoom/deleted_scenes.php Last Crusade: http://www.theraider.net/films/crusade/deleted_scenes.php They don’t have Crystal skull on there that I could see. But I’m sure there are some. Brando 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,352 Posted August 18, 2022 Share Posted August 18, 2022 2 minutes ago, Andy said: I love how you can hear Harrison vocalize his punches (“Bam!”) like he’d probably done in rehearsal, but they kept it in the sound mix Wait, really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy 4,123 Posted August 18, 2022 Share Posted August 18, 2022 Yeah. I noticed it really well in a theatrical mix, but you really have to listen. It’s when he’s throwing multiple punches and starting to win. Or I’m completely wrong and misremembering. I’m on my phone so can’t copy with the time stamp but at about 00:50, I thought I could hear Harrison. I may have mistaken it for Dovchenko’s reaction, but Harrison’s mouth is moving. I’ll check my Blu Ray later… maybe I’m wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,352 Posted August 18, 2022 Share Posted August 18, 2022 I juts hear Dovchenko grunting ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy 4,123 Posted August 18, 2022 Share Posted August 18, 2022 You may be right. And it makes little sense that it wouldn’t all be ADR. But my brain had me convinced. But look, I tricked you into watching part of KOTCS again! Brando and Naïve Old Fart 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,352 Posted August 18, 2022 Share Posted August 18, 2022 hehehe Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Brando 1,863 Posted August 18, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 18, 2022 2 minutes ago, Andy said: But look, I tricked you into watching part of KOTCS again! Ants is one of the most perfect cues for Skull. The opening of the cue sounds like what it feels like to have ants crawling all over you. Its amazing. And the percussion build up as Indy gains the upper hand is soooo good. Smeltington, Drew, crocodile and 2 others 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted August 18, 2022 Share Posted August 18, 2022 Kaminski is a hack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,516 Posted August 18, 2022 Share Posted August 18, 2022 No he's not. He has established himself as a cinematographer par excellence. He just made a right proper balls-up of KOTCS. It's among the most artificial-looking films that I have ever seen. Brando and Edmilson 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JohnnyD 1,223 Posted August 18, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 18, 2022 I don’t know about that, but the cinematography is vastly improved on the 4K Blu-Ray restoration. Of course, I love all four Indy films. I remember first seeing Raiders of the Lost Ark on VHS. I was six years old, and I’ve been a fan since. I hope they reveal a first look or something for the fifth and final film at D23, as I am really excited to see the film. It’s my most anticipated film of 2023. Brando, Andy and Bayesian 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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