Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (James Mangold, June 30 2023)

[Holko 11,054]

The new colour grade for the 4k helps it look a whole lot less fake.

[Jay 41,255]

6 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

What?

 

 

https://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/15383-enhancements-to-the-original-indiana-jones-trilogy/

[Lady Dimitrescu 9,304]

Grab the rope!

[Bespin Copilot 9,247]

I never noticed that. But it makes sense—Lucas fixing what doesn't need to be fixed.

[Jay 41,255]

You never noticed it because it was only present in some HD airings on cable in 2008.  It went away after that, and was never on any home video releases or theatrical screenings.

[Jamie Dutton 7,715]

That cliff shot is awesome. There are a surprising number of changes that were made to the 4K versions that I didn't even know about. I thought some of the plane composits in LC looked odd and I think it was because as it turned out they removed matte lines and the edges looked blurry as a result.

[tomsmoviemadness 3,827]

 

 

[mstrox 7,070]

I still haven’t seen DoD but I like the stuff he put out there in this interview.

[WampaRat 1,463]

3 hours ago, tomsmoviemadness said:

 

 

"I'm still happy I made the movie" -Harrison

Me too. 

It struck me that there's a bit of a parallel between the five Indy films and the five Daniel Craig Era Bond films with their public reception. Overall, I feel* the films in both series were received as follows:

1st one - Instant Classic 
2nd one - Not what people were expecting. Initially hated but has since been re-evaluated.
3rd one - Often in competition with the first for "best in the series"
4th - A letdown compared to the film proceeding it. Clunky with some fun to be found here and there. 
5th - Divisive. Unmet potential. But Poignant and decent overall. 

*Just my personal feelings rather than an official census taken of "the public reception" . But being around during the release of all the Craig Bonds and the last two Indy films, it certainly seemed (in my circles at least) that's how the films left audiences feeling.
 

[karelm 3,159]

It's not horrible, just so many missed opportunities and story telling misses.  I hate that Voller died in a senseless plane crash.  Every prior Indiana Jones film had the villain get their come upends by getting the object of their desire but through supernatural means that Indiana doubted.  I could have written a better story than what we got.  Have Voller seek to alter the past by either informing Hitler in 1939 how to succeed in his goal of restoring the Reich and making the Nazi's the empire of the era.  But in doing so, becoming either a victim of the power unleashed where he becomes part of all time or unleashing prior empires like the Romans and Greeks which Indiana becomes obsessed with but is told the past belongs in its time by Marian who is more involved in the story and thereby, he sees his lifelong obsessions are needing restraint and balance.  This film is a master class in missed opportunities.  I'd say it's the weakest in the franchise.  

[Lady Dimitrescu 9,304]

It's the first movie since Independence Day Resurgence that I really hated.

[Mr. Hooper 4,221]

1 hour ago, karelm said:

It's not horrible, just so many missed opportunities and story telling misses.  I hate that Voller died in a senseless plane crash.  Every prior Indiana Jones film had the villain get their come upends by getting the object of their desire but through supernatural means that Indiana doubted.  I could have written a better story than what we got.  Have Voller seek to alter the past by either informing Hitler in 1939 how to succeed in his goal of restoring the Reich and making the Nazi's the empire of the era.  But in doing so, becoming either a victim of the power unleashed where he becomes part of all time or unleashing prior empires like the Romans and Greeks which Indiana becomes obsessed with but is told the past belongs in its time by Marian who is more involved in the story and thereby, he sees his lifelong obsessions are needing restraint and balance.  This film is a master class in missed opportunities.  I'd say it's the weakest in the franchise.  

Yep. Instead of the long, tedious chase after the MacGuffin, they should've spent much more of the movie in the past—in Nazi Germany, as you say. Would've bookended the series nicely.

 

But doing unexpected things is seen as brave filmmaking, so, we ended up in Syracuse.

[pete 1,049]

47 minutes ago, Mr. Hooper said:

Yep. Instead of the long, tedious chase after the MacGuffin, they should've spent much more of the movie in the past—in Nazi Germany, as you say. Would've bookended the series nicely.

 

 

Indy time travelling back to Nazi Germany and having to avoid his younger self might have been fun. That's been done before though - still, it could have made for some light or even serious moments as he risks creating a time paradox and dismantling the whole frabric of space time, erasing not just life on earth but also those interdimensional beings from film 4 and any other life in the universe. That's a very big no-no!

 

[WampaRat 1,463]

I too would have liked to have see more of the ancient world with our main characters. There were a handful of tweaks I would have made. But I will say I thought Voller's downfall was terrific. It was ultimately brought about by the MacGuffin. (Yes Helena Shot him and I woulda preferred Indy dispatch him. Have him struggle a bit with Voller and shove him into one of the spears sticking in the cockpit!) Was Voller melted/exploded by the MacGuffin? No. I didn't need to see that again. Neither was Mola Ram. He burnt his hand, fell, and was eaten by crocodiles. But Voller's entire New Reich is brought down by the very Romans those guys were trying to emulate. Love the irony there. It's a terrific spit in the face to the those scumbags. And the panic he has after realizing the mistake he made is perfection. For me, it was better than a melting face in that moment. 
 

[mrbellamy 7,078]

Yeah I don't have a problem with Voller's death in the formula. He nearly succeeds in getting what he wants until it backfires on him due to his own hubris/ignorance. It's sort of a cross between Last Crusade (where Donovan thinks he's achieved his goal but turns out he's "chosen poorly" i.e. inaccurately, unlike Belloq and Irina who do get to experience the result of pursuing their desires precisely, their mistake being that it kills them before they can take advantage of it); and Temple of Doom (where the Macguffin doesn't kill Mola Ram exactly, but ultimately interacting with it steers him into an earthly accident.)

 

The whole airport buildup and the initial reveal of Syracuse is unquestionably the highlight of the movie for me. It's the only real reaction I had, I was pretty checked out and then suddenly for a few minutes there I was hooked. And then it just deflates again. 

[Jurassic Shark 14,204]

10 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

The whole airport buildup and the initial reveal of Syracuse is unquestionably the highlight of the movie for me. It's the only real reaction I had, I was pretty checked out and then suddenly for a few minutes there I was hooked. And then it just deflates again. 

 

Sounds like attention deficit.

[mrbellamy 7,078]

Of course

[Quintus 5,545]

They should never have made this movie.

[Edmilson 9,797]

Nah. Who cares about the movie? We got a new John Williams score.

 

If Tommy Wiseau made a sequel to The Room that somehow is even worse, but John Williams score it, well then the movie have a reason to exist 

[Mr. Hooper 4,221]

'The Room' at least has some entertainment value (just not the kind Wiseau intended). 'Dial' commits the cardinal sin of being boring.

[Bellosh 4,034]

It's so boring until ancient Greece.  Too little too late.

 

I was also not a fan of the de-aging CGI stuff which could be the other non-boring part.  I found it more cringe than anything.

 

I never found Skull to be difficult to rewatch even though it really sucks in the third act.  But I can't say I'll ever want to watch Dial all the way through ever again.

 

I saw some clip of Ford in whatever Marvel thing he is in now and all I could think of where was that type of confidence for the character of Indy at that age. He pulls it off in that clip, why default to the 'aged hero is down and out' trope. Ugh...(Vines)

[WampaRat 1,463]

From the quote in that article, the "down and out Indy" was the route Harrison wanted to go. And Mangold seemed happy to oblige having done similar work in Logan. I love the stakes in Dial of Destiny. I love how grounded it feels. The bad guys are brutal ( a bit too much I thought.) Its not gee-wiz fun anymore for Indy. I love the themes and Harrison turns in one of his best performances in years. They really swung hard away from the weightlessness of Crystal Skull. But they overcorrected. We needed a Spielberg in there saying "Yes. But also... lets have some fun too, folks." (I mean. I know a lot of things would have been different if Steven stayed on and directed). I think DoD's somber script with Spielbergs lighter touch could have balanced things out immensely. Mangold often said in his interviews before the film that "Indy has lost his mojo and we see him rediscover it." But for me and lots of other fans, it didn't quite feel that way in the end. But I will watch every Indiana Jones movie over and over. I love them all. Truly. 

You want to watch a perfect film? Raiders
You wanna watch a horror/fun-house roller coaster? Temple of Doom
You wanna watch a goofy 50s B-grade romp? Crystal Skull
You wanna watch a hero at sunset/reflection on life? Dial of Destiny

....
You wanna watch the best one? Last Crusade

(You wanna experience a fantastic Indiana Jones game? Great Circle!)

[Davis 3,727]

On 7/2/2025 at 10:23 PM, Quintus said:

They should never have made this movie.

You can say that again.

[Bellosh 4,034]

2 hours ago, WampaRat said:

From the quote in that article, the "down and out Indy" was the route Harrison wanted to go. And Mangold seemed happy to oblige having done similar work in Logan. I love the stakes in Dial of Destiny. I love how grounded it feels. The bad guys are brutal ( a bit too much I thought.) Its not gee-wiz fun anymore for Indy. I love the themes and Harrison turns in one of his best performances in years. They really swung hard away from the weightlessness of Crystal Skull. But they overcorrected. We needed a Spielberg in there saying "Yes. But also... lets have some fun too, folks." (I mean. I know a lot of things would have been different if Steven stayed on and directed). I think DoD's somber script with Spielbergs lighter touch could have balanced things out immensely. Mangold often said in his interviews before the film that "Indy has lost his mojo and we see him rediscover it." But for me and lots of other fans, it didn't quite feel that way in the end. But I will watch every Indiana Jones movie over and over. I love them all. Truly. 

You want to watch a perfect film? Raiders
You wanna watch a horror/fun-house roller coaster? Temple of Doom
You wanna watch a goofy 50s B-grade romp? Crystal Skull
You wanna watch a hero at sunset/reflection on life? Dial of Destiny

....
You wanna watch the best one? Last Crusade

(You wanna experience a fantastic Indiana Jones game? Great Circle!)

 

Yeah I agree a lot with this.

 

Re: Ford wanting to take that route, I do wonder how much Mangold was afraid to say no to that, though, if there was another direction to take.  He's an actor, not a writer or director.

 

Also....for the record, I'm totally not opposed to the down and out trope, but only if you earn it.  Indy didn't really earn Marion at the end.  She was just quickly thrown into the movie and everything is fine.  Hell the dude still wanted to die in ancient times even when he's alive in NYC.

 

I wanted Dial to completely not be about his age.  And just be confident with itself.  Plenty of ways they could have accomplished it.

[Edmilson 9,797]

3 hours ago, WampaRat said:

(You wanna experience a fantastic Indiana Jones game? Great Circle!)

Can't wait until it becomes available for PlayStation!

[WampaRat 1,463]

33 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Can't wait until it becomes available for PlayStation!

I haven't even played it! Not much of a gamer myself. But I've watched all the cutscenes like a big ole' 4-5 hour miniseries. The closest they've ever gotten to re-capturing the magic and feel of the original trilogy! Time well spent.

[Holko 11,054]

7 hours ago, Bellosh said:

 

Yeah I agree a lot with this.

 

Re: Ford wanting to take that route, I do wonder how much Mangold was afraid to say no to that, though, if there was another direction to take.  He's an actor, not a writer or director.

 

Also....for the record, I'm totally not opposed to the down and out trope, but only if you earn it.  Indy didn't really earn Marion at the end.  She was just quickly thrown into the movie and everything is fine.  Hell the dude still wanted to die in ancient times even when he's alive in NYC.

 

I wanted Dial to completely not be about his age.  And just be confident with itself.  Plenty of ways they could have accomplished it.

He should have found himself halfway through at most but he's just miserable and unfun all the way through.

[Meredith McKay 7,340]

He's a lot more fun, when you realize he is just playing the average 50+ construction/trade worker.

[oierem 193]

14 hours ago, WampaRat said:

From the quote in that article, the "down and out Indy" was the route Harrison wanted to go.

 

The thing is, that same story-arc was played out (in a lighter way, yeah) in Crystall Skull. There we have an old Indy who has reached a moment where "life stops giving him things and starts taking them from him", and tthe film gives him a new family and the best ending he could ever hope for (if there had to be another ending after Crusade). 

 

Dial was the same arc again, more dramatic perhaps, but less succesfully resolved in the end. 

[WampaRat 1,463]

4 hours ago, oierem said:

"life stops giving him things and starts taking them from him"

For such a goofy film, that line carries so much weight. I think about more and more as I get older.
 

 

8 hours ago, Holko said:

He should have found himself halfway through at most but he's just miserable and unfun all the way through.

Yeah. The boat scene with the death of Antonio Banderas should have been the final kick in the pants to dust off the Indy we knew. (ala Henry Senior slapping him in Last Crusade. "The quest for the grail...is not just archeology. Its a race against evil" Gosh I love that moment. ) Indy knows he can't sulk anymore. Time to kick nazi butt and rediscover why he loved doing what he did for all those years. The most we get is a faint little smile as he discovers Archimedes tomb. We needed at least 2-3 moments more of him enjoying himself near the end of the story. And then his "leave me here" moment would have hit harder. 
 

[Holko 11,054]

12 minutes ago, WampaRat said:

We needed at least 2-3 moments more of him enjoying himself near the end of the story. And then his "leave me here" moment would have hit harder. 

Yeah, imagine if it wasn't an "I'm miserable, I don't have anything or anyone, I just want to die" kind of "leave me here" but one of genuine interest and childish enthusiasm. Something kind of like when he still tries to reach for the Grail and has to be snapped out of it?

[mrbellamy 7,078]

And for that to really work, Marion should be way more of a throughline until you really feel that it's a choice between the great escape and having the most fun he could ever dream of, or doing the hard work of fixing his marriage. And it's gotta be clear that she's ready to do that and he's not, and you want him to give it up already and go back to her.

 

If this was gonna be the ending, the whole movie should be about him using his adventures as an escape from real life (which is sort of the Force Awakens/Han Solo situation and at least makes him really entertaining through most of that movie). The worst thing they do is make the choice for him. 

[Mr. Hooper 4,221]

1 hour ago, mrbellamy said:

The worst thing they do is make the choice for him. 

Helena: "Look, Indy, we don't have time for you to be a pitiful, crying mess—so I'm going to punch you out and literally drag you back to Marion... Don't worry, I'll patch things up between you and her in a jiffy off camera, and it'll be like Mutt died for nothing. But I swear, you'll have your drive back by the very last shot—which will seem like an afterthought added in after disastrous test screenings. Trust me."

 

[mrbellamy 7,078]

It would still take some finessing to make Marion an active character and not just a sad housewife, but I am imagining a scene between them late in the movie where they risk Indy looking a little pathetic grabbing the fedora and whip and turning his back on her. And then at the end, it's his last triumphant act of derring do in his full costume to head back toward that plane and fly away, rejecting his dream for something more valuable. Just play out Raiders March starting with Marion's Theme underscoring his whole conflict and decision as he gazes on this beautiful history, and then the whole thing continues as he walks off, shouts a farewell in Greek to really put a button on the whole thing, starts the plane, heads back to the future. 

[Bellosh 4,034]

Yeah see the movie made it's bed with Marion being surprise, unfortunately.

 

Rather than something important to the plot

[WampaRat 1,463]

I will confess to shedding a tear with their reunion scene. It worked well for me. And Indy grabbing his hat off the clothesline was great. But ending it on a perky iteration of Helena's theme felt so abrupt. I needed Indy and Marion stepping out arm and arm walking down the street (yes we got that in Crystal Skull). I needed Indy officially pardoned, paraded downtown, and given the Key to The City for destroying a Nazi sleeper cell. 

Here's a snip of the transition I made for my custom edit of the end credits. Musically, it illustrates that hypothetical ending for me and brings it to a more satisfying conclusion.

 

[Tom 5,336]

3 hours ago, Bellosh said:

Yeah see the movie made it's bed with Marion being surprise, unfortunately.

 

Rather than something important to the plot

The last line of the movie should have been Marion (channeling her inner-Padme) saying, "Indy, something wonderful has happened."  

[ChrisAfonso 210]

6 hours ago, mrbellamy said:

If this was gonna be the ending, the whole movie should be about him using his adventures as an escape from real life (which is sort of the Force Awakens/Han Solo situation and at least makes him really entertaining through most of that movie).

That's also Uncharted 4.

[Pieter Boelen 849]

On 07/02/2025 at 10:23 PM, Quintus said:

They should never have made this movie.

Yes.

They really should have. 

At the very least FOR ME. 

And all the friends I watched it with liked it too.

 

On 07/02/2025 at 3:10 AM, karelm said:

It's not horrible, just so many missed opportunities and story telling misses.  I hate that Voller died in a senseless plane crash.  Every prior Indiana Jones film had the villain get their come upends by getting the object of their desire but through supernatural means that Indiana doubted.  I could have written a better story than what we got.  Have Voller seek to alter the past by either informing Hitler in 1939 how to succeed in his goal of restoring the Reich and making the Nazi's the empire of the era.  But in doing so, becoming either a victim of the power unleashed where he becomes part of all time or unleashing prior empires like the Romans and Greeks which Indiana becomes obsessed with but is told the past belongs in its time by Marian who is more involved in the story and thereby, he sees his lifelong obsessions are needing restraint and balance.  This film is a master class in missed opportunities.  I'd say it's the weakest in the franchise.  

I LOVE how Indy outsmarts Voller, who is a bloody ROCKET SCIENTIST! 

Watching Voller just IMPLODE on himself in absolute panic is HILARIOUS and GLORIOUS! 

Best part is, turns out Indy's argument wasn't even true. 

Continental drift had nothing to do with it. 

The Dial worked exactly as intended even after all those millenia.