Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (James Mangold, June 30 2023)

[JNHFan2000 1365]

Interesting. So we're getting opeing sequence where it's like we're right after The Last Crusade or something, which will probably introduce the gimmick that the film is about. And then the rest of the film is with older Indy.

 

Sounds cool. If the de-aging is done really well, this could be spectacular

[WampaRat 1095]

If the hazy low-fi bootlegged teaser is anything to go by, it’s pretty great looking 😉

[Brando 863]

[Bellosh 1718]

it's confirmed she's Indy's Goddaughter

 

https://www.empireonline.com/movies/news/phoebe-waller-bridge-indiana-jones-goddaughter-helena-exclusive/

[Brando 863]

2 minutes ago, Bellosh said:

it's confirmed she's Indy's Goddaughter

 

https://www.empireonline.com/movies/news/phoebe-waller-bridge-indiana-jones-goddaughter-helena-exclusive/

I didn't hear it the first 50 times watching the low quality recording from D23, but towards the end you can hear Indy say 'shes my goddaughter' right before he tells the gunmen to get back. Its not very audible but it is there.

[Bellosh 1718]

1 minute ago, Brando said:

I didn't hear it the first 50 times watching the low quality recording from D23, but towards the end you can hear Indy say 'shes my goddaughter' right before he tells the gunmen to get back. Its not very audible but it is there.

 

yeah apparently some people also assumed it was said in jest.  so this just confirms it.

[Tom 3372]

Oh Man, this movie is going to be Gold.  

[Brando 863]

17 minutes ago, Bellosh said:

 

yeah apparently some people also assumed it was said in jest.  so this just confirms it.

I believed it from the start

[Bellosh 1718]

Same!

[WampaRat 1095]

Allowing myself to be excited for this. This will be a great and proper sendoff for Dr Jones. I don’t care if it’s not a hit with the younger crowd. Semi-curious to see what else Lucasfilm does in the “world of Indiana Jones” later on. But I wont hang my heart on those.
 

But THIS film…”this…this IS history…”

 

 

[TolkienSS 184]

In these times, I'm wary of franchises looking to bring back classic and beloved elements from the past, because 9.5 times out of 10, it's done so they can be revised and reframed "for modern audiences".

 

This is the same studio echelon that made the Star Wars sequels.

 

I'm not buying the hype.

[Naïve Old Fart 7510]

3 hours ago, Tom said:

Oh Man, this movie is going to be Gold.  

That's what everybody said about CRYSTAL SKULL, and look what happened 

[TolkienSS 184]

6 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

That's what everybody said about CRYSTAL SKULL, and look what happened 

 

Crystal Skull was a bad movie with innocent stupidity. I fear this will be a bad movie with questionable intent.

[Naïve Old Fart 7510]

Er...?

[HunterTech 684]

Questionable intent of being an unnecessary sequel? Wait, are you gonna be one of those that thinks the goddaughter is gonna replace Indy by the end? Cause there's like 3 crucial people involved that would probably prevent such a thing.

[Archive Collection 105]

9 minutes ago, HunterTech said:

Questionable intent of being an unnecessary sequel? Wait, are you gonna be one of those that thinks the goddaughter is gonna replace Indy by the end? Cause there's like 3 crucial people involved that would probably prevent such a thing.

Too true. It's funny how people have become so possessed with fear over their favourite franchises being 'taken over', especially by "woke" characters. We haven't even seen a frame of footage yet, but people are already proclaiming that Phoebe Waller Bridge will be the end of the series... SMH.

 

Excited to see the film.

 

1 hour ago, TolkienSS said:

In these times, I'm wary of franchises looking to bring back classic and beloved elements from the past, because 9.5 times out of 10, it's done so they can be revised and reframed "for modern audiences".

 

Usually it's done out of love and appreciation for the original films/media. I have no doubt that James Mangold loves Indiana Jones, the same way that Rian Johnson and JJ Abrams love the original Star Wars films. If the film doesn't turn out so well, that's usually down to poor creative decisions or lack of planning.

 

Given that so much of the marketing for Episode VII revolved around going back to the old fashioned way of making a Star Wars film, I don't think these studios go into making a legacy sequel with the intention of dramatically revising or reframing a classic film.

[HunterTech 684]

If they're gonna go as far as to say only Harrison Ford can be Indy, then I'm pretty sure they would want to avoid anything that might rob the final installment of any gravitas. After all, they did specifically end KotCS by ensuring audiences Ford will still be the lead after that tease with Shia.

 

Granted, since this is the director of Logan, I could maybe see this being a legitimate concern based on knowing Mangold's filmography, but I sincerely doubt that's what is happening here. At most, she'll get a Disney+ spin off at some point in the future if the character is liked enough.

 

(Also, fairly certain Bridge's contributions to the NTTD script were the most liked parts of that movie, if she's also part of the concern.)

[Nick1Ø66 3405]

Against my better judgement, and despite PWB's involvement (which is obviously a negative) I'm somewhat excited about this.  Which in my experience means it could be very good or very bad. 

 

Still, it's better than indifference. I like what I could make out in the trailer, and I'm really looking forward to seeing what they've come up with.

[HunterTech 684]

Okay, is there anything PWB has done that one would consider bad? Or is it purely just the "woman lead in a modern Disney production" thing?

 

Huh, she was the Droid lady in Solo. I did remember that character not sitting well with some.

[mstrox 5673]

10 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

despite PWB's involvement (which is obviously a negative)

??????????????

[Nick1Ø66 3405]

4 minutes ago, HunterTech said:

Or is it purely just the "woman lead in a modern Disney production" thing?

 

Oh good grief. She's not even the lead. I just find her annoying.

[HunterTech 684]

7 minutes ago, HunterTech said:

I did remember that character not sitting well with some.

 

Eh. Close enough.

 

(I didn't intend to sound overly forward with my questions. I just want to make sure I ain't misunderstanding folks.)

[Jay 30970]

25 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

despite PWB's involvement (which is obviously a negative) I'm somewhat excited about this

 

What? She's great! Have you seen Fleabag?

[Manakin Skywalker 3601]

I'm just going to go on the record right now and say that if FWB did hypothetically take over Indy's place at the end of the film, I really don't care. Harrison is done with the character, so the only two possibilities going forward are: 1. Stop making any Indiana Jones content forever, or 2. Pass on the torch. Neither is ideal, but that's the reality. I also don't see how FWB would be a negative, aside from people that hate on her simply because of her character in a single film (Solo).

 

[Nick1Ø66 3405]

11 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

1. Stop making any Indiana Jones content forever, or 2. Pass on the torch. 

 Neither is ideal

 

Door 1 is ideal.

 

Speaking for myself, I wouldn't care if it were PWB or Chris Pratt or Shia freaking Lebouf donning the hat & whip, I wouldn't be interested. And in event, they've already said they wouldn't recast Indy, so what does it matter? Am I supposed to be interested in a series set in an "Indiana Jones Expanded Universe"? Why? What would the point of that even be, beyond yet another cynical, disappointing cash grab.

 

Harrison Ford is Indiana Jones, there's no "Indy Universe" without the character, and I have zero faith that Disney, whether via a movie or (more likely) a TV series could do anything associated with it justice. If they want to create a period action adventure series, they should just do that and leave Indy alone. They won't, of course, but they should.

 

Last Crusade closed the Indy story perfectly with him riding off into the sunset. You couldn't have asked for a better ending. Now, if they must continue, I'm glad they're getting another shot at it after the abysmal 4th film. I'm genuinely (perhaps foolishly) optimistic and excited to see what they come up with. But for crying out loud, let that be the end of it. 

 

12 hours ago, Jay said:

 

What? She's great! Have you seen Fleabag?

 

I live in England. Of course I have.

[Not Mr. Big 4047]

12 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

Neither is ideal, but that's the reality. I also don't see how FWB would be a negative, aside from people that hate on her simply because of her character in a single film (Solo).

I feel like a lot of it (not all) is just the same bullcrap about you know what.  

[Andy 2204]

13 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

Am I supposed to be interested in a series set in an "Indiana Jones Expanded Universe"? Why? What would the point of that even be, beyond yet another cynical, disappointing cash grab.

Well they could finally do an Indy series for adults!

 

Gritty-ana Jones and the Kingdom of Dour World-Building

[Nick1Ø66 3405]

2 minutes ago, Andy said:

Well they could finally do an Indy series for adults!

 

 

Ha! Credit to Lucas, he was genuinely trying to make something educational while also entertaining with the Young Indy Chronicles. The results were, er, decidedly mixed at best, but it was pretty clear a lot of love went into that show.

[Andy 2204]

You’re not wrong. 
 

But I have tried to get into it and just can’t.  Needs Ford and Williams. 

[Bellosh 1718]

54 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

 

Ha! Credit to Lucas, he was genuinely trying to make something educational while also entertaining with the Young Indy Chronicles. The results were, er, decidedly mixed at best, but it was pretty clear a lot of love went into that show.

 

the writing and production value is worth watching it alone.  with every franchise these days getting a spin off or tv series, it truly shows how ahead of the time that series was.

 

i dont care for shows these days in franchises that 'fill gaps' in our imagination. everything has to be "OMG I REMEMBER THAT MOMENT FROM THE FILM" and outside of a few moments (ie: "making it up as I go along" lesson learned in phantom train of doom) that show completely stood on it's own for the character. most of the time Indy isn't even the spotlight of that show.  Another reason why I think lots of people may not like it.

 

there's just a huge difference between a show like Obi Wan that just exists to fill your imagination worse than a novel ever could, to a moment in Young Indy where he jokingly suggests The Red Baron paint his plane red, and he eventually does it. And it's moments like that, that made the show so likeable.

 

I don't want a show learning how Indy and Sallah met, ect ect, ect.  We don't need this shit spoonfed to us.

 

Ultimately it seems like stories used to WANT to be told by creators.  Now they're just told to because they know the franchise being tied to it will hit a certain amount $$$.

[Alex 2387]

I wonder if JW will go back to his Nazi theme from Raiders, or will Mikkelsen’s character have their own motif.

 

Looking forward to hearing the score for all these action set pieces. JW in action mode is my favourite JW.

[Tom 3372]

8 minutes ago, Alex said:

I wonder if JW will go back to his Nazi theme from Raiders, or will Mikkelsen’s character have their own motif.

 

Looking forward to hearing the score for all these action set pieces. JW in action mode is my favourite JW.

I think the description of the opening could not be better news score-wise.  It will give Williams a chance to provide a mini-score, like he did with Last Crusade. 

[Luke Skywalker 1440]

If the de-aging is so good…. Would they try to make more indy movies after ford has retired, with ford likeness?* This was morally unthinkable  a pair of decades ago… but nowadays we are more and more into reviving old actors…

 

*(and fix ‘Solo’ by the way 😅)

[Edmilson 4497]

1 hour ago, Andy said:

Well they could finally do an Indy series for adults!

 

Gritty-ana Jones and the Kingdom of Dour World-Building

A dark and gritty Indy movie, with a dour atmosphere, mature themes (i.e. people ocasionally saying "fuck" and one or two shots of women's tits), Bourne-like editing in the fight scenes and a Remote Control-style score done by one of Zimmer's accolytes with lots of horn of doom and angry electronics.

 

Sure, why the hell not...

[Brando 863]

32 minutes ago, Tom said:

I think the description of the opening could not be better news score-wise.  It will give Williams a chance to provide a mini-score, like he did with Last Crusade. 

Everyone keeps asking if it’ll be the Raiders or Crusade Nazi motif, or a brand new one, but I’m really hoping for a reprise of the train motif

 

[Not Mr. Big 4047]

18 minutes ago, Brando said:

 

 

They should use that version in the movie 

[Brando 863]

7 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said:

They should use that version in the movie 

Yes. Overlay it over the orchestra.

[WampaRat 1095]

I was listening to the Crystal Skull RS and I get the feeling Williams will use the Henry Sr./Jones Family theme again in this film. It’s perfectly lovely and has a nice longing vibe to it. Wouldn’t be opposed to it popping up again. (I LOVE the bridge section in particular heard in Last Crusade’s End Credits)

[Brando 863]

Just now, WampaRat said:

I was listening to the Crystal Skull RS and I get the feeling Williams will use the Henry Sr./Jones Family theme again in this film. It’s perfectly lovely and has a nice longing vibe to it. Wouldn’t be opposed to it popping up again. (I LOVE the bridge section in particular heard in Last Crusade’s End Credits)

I wonder if it would be appropriate if he wrote the end credits like he did for TROS and quoted several films. Part of me thinks thats possible but I don't know. 

[WampaRat 1095]

27 minutes ago, Brando said:

I wonder if it would be appropriate if he wrote the end credits like he did for TROS and quoted several films. Part of me thinks thats possible but I don't know. 

Could be. But outside of possibly Marion’s theme and the Jones family theme, not sure what else would make logical sense to include (we’ll known soon enough!)
 

I actually like that the Indy scores (like the films) are more stand alone stories. There isn’t the vast tapestry of themes that Williams spun for the Star Wars films. If I had to choose, I’d love for this score to be pack with as many new themes and motifs as possible. New set pieces, new McGuffins, Heck even a new Nazi theme! And then later I’ll complain that he didn’t quote other established themes when given then chance 😆

[Brando 863]

8 minutes ago, WampaRat said:

 

I actually like that the Indy scores (like the films) are more stand alone stories. 

This is the only thing that would make the 'legacy theme end credits' not make sense. Because you can watch the Indy films in any order really and get an idea of what the other ones are I like, except for them all being vastly different, which is a great thing.

[WampaRat 1095]

Ya. As much as I’d FLIP to hear Williams dust off “Parade of the Slave Children” in some form in the end credits, I get the feeling that would be super out of place in this installment. 
 

[Not Mr. Big 4047]

9 minutes ago, WampaRat said:

Ya. As much as I’d FLIP to hear Williams dust off “Parade of the Slave Children” in some form in the end credits, I get the feeling that would be super out of place in this installment. 
 

They would be Slave Adults by now

[Naïve Old Fart 7510]

I have an inherent and intense dislike of any - anything - that Waller Bridge does, so couldn't give a single shit about what happens to her character.

She fucked-up Bond, and she might well fuck-up Indiana Jones.

[HunterTech 684]

33 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

She fucked-up Bond, and she might well fuck-up Indiana Jones.

 

And you know that how? Last I checked: she was brought on from a personal recommendation by Craig, and would've been partly responsible for the scenes in Cuba (you know, the ones people think are the best in the film) as a result of most of the story already being written.

 

People are allowed to dislike things, yet it's easy to feel like someone shat on their cereal with some of these opinions. Get a new bowl, I guess?

[GerateWohl 2500]

4 hours ago, Brando said:

I wonder if it would be appropriate if he wrote the end credits like he did for TROS and quoted several films. Part of me thinks thats possible but I don't know. 

Not for a single movie please.

But maybe Williams is once going to write a concert suite with a medley of all essential Indy themes, packed in the middle of the Raider's March like Marion's Theme.

[Naïve Old Fart 7510]

1 hour ago, HunterTech said:

 

And you know that how? Last I checked: she was brought on from a personal recommendation by Craig, and would've been partly responsible for the scenes in Cuba (you know, the ones people think are the best in the film) as a result of most of the story already being written.

 

People are allowed to dislike things, yet it's easy to feel like someone shat on their cereal with some of these opinions. Get a new bowl, I guess?

That's an "ad hominem", Patrick.

[HunterTech 684]

That's not a refutation of the fact that one screenwriter was only hired to punch up a largely already thought up narrative. I'm likely being too dense by taking the hyperbole seriously, but mostly because I find the foundation of the argument a bit lacking/questionable.

 

Really need to find new hobbies.....

[Nick1Ø66 3405]

20 hours ago, Luke Skywalker said:

If the de-aging is so good…. Would they try to make more indy movies after ford has retired, with ford likeness?* This was morally unthinkable  a pair of decades ago… but nowadays we are more and more into reviving old actors…

 

 

The real question involves bringing back dead actors in virtual performances (which, make no mistake, is coming), which will ultimately end up being a legal, not moral, question. That is a question that will be decided by judges, not ethicists. If it's ethics you're interested in, Dr. Tyree's philosophy class is right up the hall.

[Naïve Old Fart 7510]

An intriguing possibility, is that, if they de-age Ford, then they could, using mo-cap, de-age Connery, and Elliott.