Two Towers Film Review

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

I saw the film again today with my dad and brother who hadn't seen it yet, and I admit I enjoyed the score and especially the film quite a bit more. But still, I find both almost devoid of emotion. Gollum was briefly heartbreaking, but his plight could have been made much more poignant with appropriately touching music, instead of the same old dark, brooding choral and string passages. The same goes for the King mourning his son's death, the horse waking Aragorn, etc, etc. Williams (and others as well, mind you) can take an ordinary moment in film and completely transform it into something wonderful and magical. But I do like the new theme for Rohan. It's cool; again, not as good as it could be, but still enjoyable.

Ray Barnsbury

[Ross 1]

Stefancos- who thinks Gollum's Song is the best song made this year.

You need to be Stefancos to state that.

-ROSS, who reluctantly saw the movie and was greatly surprised, especially by the Ents.

[Melange 446]

Although they are very powerful films (this cannot be denied), i personally would of chosen to approach them in a different way if i was a director. Much Less sense overload and bludgeoning the audience. The style of movies like "Excalibur" come to mind more for me. They've got much more of that fantasy edge and mystical side about them. The use of Wagner in that movie for example was perfect. Although Shore's score is so so , it often reminds me of the marching music from Monthy Python and the search for the holy grail for the king without a horse and only 2 coconuts. My past of course colours my perception of the LOTR and Hobbit world because i read the books when much younger and used to have a text only role playing game on my spectrum computer which really put you into you into a personal subjective perception of that world. The movies are not quite how i percieve that world. But still a great effort and a leap in filmmaking.

http://www.graphicszone.net/monty_python/H...ounds/grail.mid

[Morn 8]

Williams (and others as well, mind you) can take an ordinary moment in film and completely transform it into something wonderful and magical.  But I do like the new theme for Rohan.  It's cool; again, not as good as it could be, but still enjoyable.

Ray Barnsbury

In my opinion, Shore achieves this, but the score doesn't work as perfectly on the album.

[charlesk 0]

I finally saw the movie (TTT). I was quite impressed with the action sequences. In this movie, my praise goes to the technical, special effects achievement and art design and makeup.

As for direction, Jackson manages again to keep you in the chair for three hours, but this time, just barely, and only thanks to the impressive action sequences. At some points the movie lagged with redundant emotivity that actors couldn't convey and the dialog and score didn't support. Love scenes were plainly boring and devoid of real emotion. And if I had to see another helicopter circular aerial shot around the characters running through the mountains of New Zealand I would scream of pain. Jackson is overdoing these shots.

But hands down, the biggest achievement is from special effects, both artistically and technically. Technically, for the realistic action sequences, realistic Gollum and his interaction with human actors (more difficult than it appears), interaction of CGI with water, etc.

Artistically, Gollum again. Gollum's character is very complex, he's a psychopath with multiple personalities and monologues that would challenge a seasoned actor. It was very well done and Gollum is probably the best actor in the movie. Spielberg would have his imagination soaring, Lucas would be in rage his own company couldn't do better in his movies (and maybe planning to redo all CGI characters. LOL).

[Ren 75]

Well I finally saw TTT. I could barely sit for the whole time, but I did it. Even some younger kids did it better than I.

I have the first LOTR and loved it, this one is way up there too. I have to say Shore's overuse of his score is gross. I didn't mind it in FOTR, but this time was too much.

Gollum was AMAZING, his monologues were dizzying.

The action scenes were very well done but I don't like fighting scenes, and the half hour battle was good, but long.

The Dwarf provided some much needed comic relief and I think it was well done. Not over the top.

I really think that Legolas did a great job in this movie. and I LOVED the trees.

All in all, a movie I'd see again, with LOTS of popcorn and taking a bathroom break in the middle!

Ren

[Melange 446]

I have to say Shore's overuse of his score is gross.

I didn't mind it in FOTR, but this time was too much.

Phew..I was starting to think it was only me who felt that way about the score.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I have the first LOTR and loved it, this one is way up there too.  I have to say Shore's overuse of his score is gross.  I didn't mind it in FOTR, but this time was too much.

Ren

Precisely what moments did you think were gross?

(I do agree about having trouble sitting through it, the first viewing I attended had no intermission, and I REALLY had to go to the rest room)

Stefancos- who just came back from his second viewing and thinks Shore did a great job.

[Ren 75]

Well, Stefan, I wish I could completely answer your question but because I've seen it only once I will refrain from elaborate details until I see it again.

I wish I had attended a viewing with an intermission. That would have been good. And I'm betting I may agree with you about the score when I see it a second time.

But to semi-answer your question. It seemed as if every couple of minutes the ring theme was playing or the same couple of chords were droning in and out. Mind you, I don't have the whole movie memorized and I didn't take notes, though I swear some of you did! But that is just my first take on the movie. If I didn't enjoy his score to some degree I think I would have vomited. It's a damn good thing I like the Ring Theme.

But some would say the same about Hedwig.

Ren

[Marian Schedenig 8,173]

I dunno, to me it seemed that the Ring theme was used seldomly (like in the first score). The Rohan theme was somewhat prominent, but still not on most of the time - less often than Hedwig's Theme in HPPS, and of course many here consider ESB as the best score of all time - and while I have no complaints about it at all, the Imperial March is certainly used more often there than the Ring theme, the Rohan theme and Hedwig's theme all together.

Between the Buttons (The Rolling Stones) - got it for Christmas

[Morn 8]

The Ring theme is just an Alex North rip off.

[Ren 75]

yeah well,

like i said. that is just about the only theme i can distinctly remember humming afterwards. i just thought that the music was kind of blah in comparison to the movie. I like the movie, I like the music, but together they just don't do it justice.

[Morn 8]

That's the Alex North factor Ren.

Listen to this to see what I mean. Grant Me An Honorable Way To Die

from Cleopatra.

http://mfile.akamai.com/3171/wm2/muze.down....asx?obj=v10323

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

many here consider ESB as the best score of all time - and while I have no complaints about it at all, the Imperial March is certainly used more often there than the Ring theme, the Rohan theme and Hedwig's theme all together.

THAT Much used is Imperial march-Darth Vader's theme? :roll:

Thank goodnes Williams hardly repeated the same 'orchestration' in them.

Anyway, ring theme and the Imperial march cannot be compared...

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Why not, both are important themes for their perspective saga's.

Stefancos- wondering why Luke feels threatened by all this TTT praise?

[Marian Schedenig 8,173]

THAT Much used is Imperial march-Darth Vader's theme?

I haven't counted it, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's used 50 times or more.

Signs (James Newton Howard)

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

Who said i'm threatened? I'm not threatened, i know that i like more, and that is what is important to me. It is just that comparing it with SW in everya aspect known, just makes me like LOTR a little less every time. (That was last year, this one i have decided to ignore those comments. If i criticise it's about CGI and score. nothing more...)

Anyway, I know ESB's score is a superior sequel work that TTT's score. :? You did not? :roll:

IMO...

(anyway they cannot be compared becasue of they are different kind of themes and the quality of one is better (choose which you want )

TTT, and thinking that Shore should have made concert versions of the themes and main passages instead of putting parts of the score. You know there is less than a half of the score in CD, plus it's frustrating hearing little picks and cameos of themes that last few seconds... Furthermore, it would be better to make peole buy the complete score, you know 1 CD with concert versions and 3 with the real score, no repeated music on both, what it that will happen... (I know Williams should do sometimes, but he at least develops concert verion/s of main theme/s...)

[ChrisAfonso 186]

@Luke:

OK, I can't take it for granted that everyone cares for the participants in the battles, so your point is as valid as mine. I still think that one has more reason to care for those fighting against the Uruks in Helm's Deep. We see those old men and boys (just to take a few) who are about to fight an overbearing enemy, we see the fear in their faces, before the battle. What do we see in AOTC? The droids take the part of the Uruks, they are the bad guys, just to be fought against. The clones on the other hand, why should we care for them? Identical copies of an evil man (although "evil" here leaves room for discussion), faceless (thanks to their helmets), doing nothing than appearing suddenly and fighting.

Ok, if you see this different, let's rest this case. I just wanted to explain my POV

[Marian Schedenig 8,173]

My complaint about the AOTC battle is that there doesn't seem to be any tension to me, because there's no real goal, except simply winning the battle. With the Hornburg, the goal is clear: Hold the castle. There are walsl that are attacked, there's a gate to hold, etc. I think that's what creates dramatic tension, because one event can lead to another. In AOTC, it's a big battle with many people fighting each other - but there's not a lot that can happen that changes the battle.

Anyway, I know ESB's score is a superior sequel work that TTT's score.  :? You did not?  :roll:

I don't consider TTT a sequel score. As Shore says, it's just act 2 of a three act work. Just as the movies and books are no trilogy, just one story split into three parts.

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

My complaint about the AOTC battle is that there doesn't seem to be any tension to me, because there's no real goal, except simply winning the battle. With the Hornburg, the goal is clear: Hold the castle. There are walsl that are attacked, there's a gate to hold, etc. I think that's what creates dramatic tension, because one event can lead to another. In AOTC, it's a big battle with many people fighting each other - but there's not a lot that can happen that changes the battle.

For me, the Battle of Geonosis starts with Mace Windu threatening Dooku. The whole arena scene has tension, Jedi fight and Die. and when the clones arrive is similar (but in minor scale) that Gandalf coming with the cavalry.

The Jedi want to capture Dooku - to end the separatism, and of course to win the war.

Bah, as Chrisalfoso said, lets forget this and enjoy the two movies...

I don't consider TTT a sequel score. As Shore says, it's just act 2 of a three act work. Just as the movies and books are no trilogy, just one story split into three parts.

Ok, then...

By the Way, Williams says nearly the same with SW, doesn't he?

[ChrisAfonso 186]

Bah, as Chrisalfoso said, lets forget this and enjoy the two movies...

I hope Stefan doesn't stumble over this... :cry2:

[CYPHER 1]

Contains SPOILERS

I saw The Two Towers this morning and I'm afraid to say I thought it sucked for the most part. I'm a big fan of the books and absolutely loved the The Fellowship of the Ring movie. My biggest problem with The Two Towers has to be the structure and the pacing. From the opening scene (which to me is pointless, inappropriate and comes completely out of nowhere) the film is an utter mess. All that scene jumping prevented me from ever getting settled into the film and I found it really hard to appreciate what were emotionally significant events. Even the lead up to the battle at Helm's Deep was underwhelming and I really didn't care much for the Men holed up inside no matter how many times Peter Jackson served up cliched shots of lip-trembling women and stern-faced men holding back their tears

The deviations from the original text would not have been personally problematic if they had actually served much purpose or been even slightly effective. So many of these were ludicrous (Aragorn's 'death') or completely unbelievable (the winged Nazgul flies away from the One Ring just because his steed has been hit by a single arrow?). I'll admit that the book is structured in an atypical way (The Return of the King even more so) but the transfer from one medium to the other has been very poorly handled here in my opinion. Saving Shelob and Gandalf's admittedly anti-climactic confrontation with Saruman for the final film will probably feel just as weird.

The most disappointing aspect about this film though was its complete inability to move me. I was entirely devastated by the first film and moved to tears on so many occasions - from such disparate moments as the response to Gandalf's death to a forlorn exchange of looks between Aragorn and Boromir in Lorien. In The Two Towers none of the characters were given room to breath because so much was going on and there was very little evocation of their plight. Considering this is the darkest chapter I'm surprised that I feared more for Frodo and Sam in the first film than I did here. Despite having an extra writer the script seems much more sparse and it's profound neglect of character development is probably one of the main reasons for this phenomenal let down.

[Marian Schedenig 8,173]

From the opening scene (which to me is pointless, inappropriate and comes completely out of nowhere)

I thought that was perfect!

The deviations from the original text would not have been personally problematic if they had actually served much purpose or been even slightly effective.

Yes, I do agree that many of the changes seemed pointless and inferior to the books.

or completely unbelievable (the winged Nazgul flies away from the One Ring just because his steed has been hit by a single arrow?).

Don't forget, Legolas shot down one of the beasts over Anduin.

Saving Shelob and Gandalf's admittedly anti-climactic confrontation with Saruman for the final film will probably feel just as weird.

I do think they should have put the Saruman confrontation at the end of TTT. But I can understand why Shelob isn't there - Frodo and Sam don't reach here until about a week after the Saruman confrontation. At that point, Pippin is already in Minas Tirith, i.e. the other storylines are already well into the ROTK book.

The most disappointing aspect about this film though was its complete inability to move me.

I was prepared for that. There really isn't that much to move you in that part of the story. In FOTR it was the Shire, Bilbo, Rivendell, Gandalf's death, Boromir's death...all stuff that doesn't have anything similar in TTT. Which is why I have no doubt ROTK will be the best movie, combining the best points of the previous two.

In The Two Towers none of the characters were given room to breath because so much was going on and there was very little evocation of their plight.

It seems a LOT was cut from this film. There's quite a bit in the trailers that was never seen in the final movie. I hope the extended DVD doesn't have any extended fight scenes this time but simply more more more character stuff.

Marian - who still enjoyed most of it a lot and who'll probably like it better when he finally goes to see it a second time.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Marian, what changes did you not like.

I thought most of them were very well done, especially how they handled Théoden. (in the film he actually grieves for his son, is much more stubborn and in doubt)

I also like the argument between Aragorn and Legolas.

Really the only aspect of the film that does not work for me is the supposed death of Aragorn.

Another thing that confuses me is this:

In the extended version of FOTR Aragorn and Galadriel talk about Arwen, and her pledge to stay in Middle Earth and merry Aragorn.

Aragorn tells her that if it were up to him Arwen would go to the Grey Havens, indicating that to his knowledge she is staying.

In TTT we see a very different picture, of Aragorn more or less breaking up with her.

And when Eowyn ask about the women who gave him the brooch, Aragorn says that she sailing to the undying lands with the rest of her people.

This to me is a direct contradiction to info given in the extended Fellowship.

I hope they somehow clear this up for the extended cut , because it effects the continuity between the films.

Stefancos- wonderering why Marian has only seen it once?

[Marian Schedenig 8,173]

I thought most of them were very well done, especially how they handled Théoden. (in the film he actually grieves for his son, is much more stubborn and in doubt)

Théoden was great. Perhaps a bit too stubborn, but too good to complain. (BTW, did you notice the little door when he visits Théodred's grave? )

I also like the argument between Aragorn and Legolas.

Yes, nothing wrong with that. Generally I liked how they made Aragorn slowly take responsibility.

Really the only aspect of the film that does not work for me is the supposed death of Aragorn.

IMHO totally pointless. There's enough action and tension in the Hornburg battle. They could have used the time of this subplot for character development instead. Or more Frodo/Sam scenes. Or more Merry/Pippin/Fangorn stuff. That might have helped make the Ents less hasty.

My other main complaint is Faramir. Not that he takes them captive or anything, or isn't he most friendly guy. He's pretty much like that in the book. But the most important part about his character in the book is that he does NOT take the Ring. Even if they had to make him decide to take the Ring to Denethor, he at least should have done so in a way that lets us see he's more intelligent and objective than most men.

(Arwen stuff) This to me is a direct contradiction to info given in the extended Fellowship.

Interesting, I didn't think of that.

Another thing I'm not yet sure about is Aragorn's vision of Arwen when he lies unconsiously at the riverside. Though it certainly makes sense, the water-Valar (or is he a Maia? Damn, I have to read the Silmarillion again, I keep confusing them) always was especially helpful to the peoples of Middle-earth.

Stefancos- wonderering why Marian has only seen it once?  

I was thinking about seeing it on Dec 24th, before Christmas and stuff, but I didn't have the time. My cousin and aunt presented me with an invitation for Christmas to see it together with them, I guess we'll probably do that next week.

Generally though, I want to try and watch it less often than FOTR. I'm afraid I might watch them so often that I can't watch them anymore otherwise.

Signs (James Newton Howard)

[Melange 446]

I thought of a scene i did like in the movie today. It was where they are crossing the marshes with all those white eyed people lying just under the water, and it reminded me strongly of my childhood where me and the rest of the family used to walk every weekend in an area of England called Dartmoor. Often you would stumble across long boggy marshes there (just like in the film) and you would see the skeletons of sheep lying just under the water where they'd been sucked under or died naturally, and other objects. The scene where Frodo,sam and Gollum cross it brought it back for me..hehehe

[Ren 75]

I am not a huge buff on LOTR so I didn't notice any of those subtle differences and I don't have the extended version. Should I??????

I did lose my following during that whole dream scene with Arwen and Aragorn.

[Ren 75]

And that scene with Sam and Frodo and Gollum was very creepy!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I am not a huge buff on LOTR so I didn't notice any of those subtle differences and I don't have the extended version.  Should I??????

Well, if you liked the first film, and are willing to pay money to have a 30 minute longer version of it????

Stefancos- who does....and who did.

[Ren 75]

Well, I definitely liked it alot. I have the books, the audio cd's and saw TTT and liked it. What do you think? Is this the 4 disc set we are talking about here?

[Ren 75]

where can i find a site with some really classy TTT wallpapers for my computer. none of this garbage.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

http://www.lordoftherings.net/index_202a_l..._down_desk.html has now great desktop wallpapers.

And i think you should take a chance and get the 4 DVD set.

BTW, have you or haven't you seen Fellowship Of The Ring before?

Stefancos- who sleepy, but can't sleep.

[Ren 75]

Yes, yes I've seen it.

[Ren 75]

Thanks those are nice.

are there any out there of TTT? I'd rather Gandalf the White. . .

[Ren 75]

Sorry, just saw the link.

they don't have much up for TTT yet.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

That's probably all they are gonna have up.

Stefancos- who's using the Gandalf one.

[Morn 8]

Actually, I almost agree with CYPHER, including his comments on FOTR. TTT wasn't quite as good as FOTR, but I enjoyed it. It did have better pacing and better flow, yet it lacked the emotional depth of FOTR except for the introduction. So bascially, it was more solid but less enjoyable.

[CYPHER 1]

Okay I have a few responses and comments to make here but can't conceive of how to quote different people in the one reply so I'll just address you all individually.

Marian: Your comments were much appreciated. It seems we shared some similar reactions to the film (e.g. disdain for the alterations) and not others (regard for the opening scene). And I'd completely forgotten about Legolas felling the Nazgul with his arrow, but now that I remember it I thought at the time that it was a little silly.

Stefancos: I haven't seen the extended scenes from FOTR yet but from what you've said it certainly seems as though the film makers have made a botch job with this Arwen-Aragorn debacle. The illogical plotting and flashbacks / dream sequences in TTT were confusing enough without adding this to the mix. In my opinion they should never have given Arwen such a big role because it's just not working. And there's no excuse for giving Liv Tyler higher billing than Viggo Mortensen!

Melange: That scene in the Marshes, especially when Frodo falls in is one of the few moments that I really enjoyed. It manages to demonstrate some of the imagination so rife throughout FOTR and so scarce in TTT.

Justin: Your cinema experience sounds TERRIBLE! This is the stuff of my nightmares! As much as I would hate to do it I would've walked out as soon as the problems looked like they'd persist: better to only have part of it ruined than the whole thing. But it's encouraging that you still managed to like the film and be in seemingly high spirits about it

CYPHER

[Morn 8]

Melange: That scene in the Marshes, especially when Frodo falls in is one of the few moments that I really enjoyed. It manages to demonstrate some of the imagination so rife throughout FOTR and so scarce in TTT.

Well said.

[Kradia 1]

I thought the film served its purpose....to be the adapted continuation of a loooonnnng story.

The last battle scene was a bit long, and I found myself not caring at the end of the 3 hours..... The Aragorn/Arwen scenes should have been cut completely, or at least shortened....

Again, Frodo is quite unbelievable trying to persuade me of his struggle against the power of the ring. The spasms of his face were quite disturbing seen on the kid rather than convincing.

Sam's character was more acceptable this time around...

And Gollum....was quite goood. I guess they tried to make him have more of a humanistic quality than a monster quality(the Hobbit Cartoon, whose voice freaked me out) The voice fits this human-like Gollum well.

Shore's Score: it was good for an epic wannabee, but it was hardly anything memorable. It was hard to pay attention to the music with all the action; and the music just faded into the background. And nothing would make me want to listen again and again. FOTR score is much better than TTT, IMO.

All in all, after waiting a year to see the movie, I was quite pleased with the continuation. However, I think Return of the King is going to be kick-ass...I just wonder how they're going to crunch all the other good stuff from the book into the last 3 hours-Return of the King. (like Denethor scene, Eowyn vs Nazgul, and Saruman vs Frodo) when they could have done it here.....

Final Verdict: a "filler" score for a "filler" movie

[CYPHER 1]

I heard somewhere that the whole Scouring of the Shire plotline is not going to be included in the final film because it interferes with the structure. Go figure... But it could actually work out for the best that way.

CYPHER

[Morn 8]

Shore's Score: it was good for an epic wannabee, but it was hardly anything memorable. It was hard to pay attention to the music with all the action; and the music just faded into the background. And nothing would make me want to listen again and again. FOTR score is much better than TTT, IMO.

Pretty much.