Why has film music hit rock bottom?

[Ollie 1,059]

Hans Zimmer is not really Hans Zimmer, but a black pillar of smoke. He is pure evil, and his only purpose is to destroy the film score world. He has recruited a team to accomplish this goal, and has the power to cloud men's hearts with the darkness he controls. James Newton Howard was such a victim, who no longer feels emotion. John Williams is our last saving grace, a cork that is preventing Zimmer from escaping Remote Control Productions and completely annihilating good film music across the globe. He desperately needs candidates to take his place as protector, since he can only last for so long. Michael Giacchino was brought to Los Angeles for this purpose. His destiny is to take out Zimmer, and free our music from dinosaur roars and mechanical clicks.

We already did this with Blume's JWFAN Survivor.

[Jay 37,346]

how?

Everyone should be able to vote for all 3 options - he set it up to allow that. Are you using some weird browser?

[Ollie 1,059]

I don't understand how Zimmer, who is mostly known for bombastic, melodic, and easily identifiable music, is responsible for the fucking lifeless wallpaper music that abounds today.

Hey maybe there's a reason why we're losing this music battle..you idiots are charging in the wrong direction!

Because he writes lifeless generic sounding music and he's now sucked JNH into his void.

As I said earlier, he's not the only one to blame. But his style and stable of composers has contributed to it.

If you were aware of his works in the early 1990s, you might change your mind.

I did listen to Zimmer in the early 90's.

You may see it as lifeless, but it's far from generic. His style was the first of its kind. It's only the composers who followed in his wake that made it sound generic.

Also, it's a little short-sighted of you to say that JNH was "sucked into" his void, as if the man is incapable of making decisions himself and was somehow duped into working with Zimmer.

Humor and sarcasm are often lost on people here.

[Jay 37,346]

It is a difficult concept.

[Ollie 1,059]

I don't really think JNH was ever really that good in the first place.

Back in the 90's he was, Waterworld, The Fugitive, his early works with MNS. etc etc.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Hans Zimmer is not really Hans Zimmer, but a black pillar of smoke. He is pure evil, and his only purpose is to destroy the film score world. He has recruited a team to accomplish this goal, and has the power to cloud men's hearts with the darkness he controls. James Newton Howard was such a victim, who no longer feels emotion. John Williams is our last saving grace, a cork that is preventing Zimmer from escaping Remote Control Productions and completely annihilating good film music across the globe. He desperately needs candidates to take his place as protector, since he can only last for so long. Michael Giacchino was brought to Los Angeles for this purpose. His destiny is to take out Zimmer, and free our music from dinosaur roars and mechanical clicks.

We already did this with Blume's JWFAN Survivor.

Wow, we did, didn't we? That whole idea sprung from your comment that he sucked JNH in. It's weird how it's exactly what Blume came up with Well, we both kinda just applied this message board to LOST.

[Kevin 22]

I don't understand how Zimmer, who is mostly known for bombastic, melodic, and easily identifiable music, is responsible for the fucking lifeless wallpaper music that abounds today.

Hey maybe there's a reason why we're losing this music battle..you idiots are charging in the wrong direction!

Because he writes lifeless generic sounding music and he's now sucked JNH into his void.

As I said earlier, he's not the only one to blame. But his style and stable of composers has contributed to it.

If you were aware of his works in the early 1990s, you might change your mind.

I did listen to Zimmer in the early 90's.

You may see it as lifeless, but it's far from generic. His style was the first of its kind. It's only the composers who followed in his wake that made it sound generic.

Also, it's a little short-sighted of you to say that JNH was "sucked into" his void, as if the man is incapable of making decisions himself and was somehow duped into working with Zimmer.

Humor and sarcasm are often lost on people here.

You didn't like any of his non action scores

-Driving Miss Daisy

-Rain Man

-Fools of Fortune

-Pacific Heights

-Green Card

-A League of Their Own

-Radio Flyer

-Beyond Rangoon

-The Lion King

-K2

-Calendar Girl

-The House of the Spirits

-I'll Do Anything

-As Good As It Gets

-Point of No Return

-Thelma & Louise

-Regarding Henry

-Power of One

-The Prince of Egypt

None of that impressed you slightly?

[Ollie 1,059]

Does this board exist in another reality.......??????

Or have we passed over?

You didn't like any of his non action scores

-Driving Miss Daisy

-Rain Man

-Fools of Fortune

-Pacific Heights

-Green Card

-A League of Their Own

-Radio Flyer

-Beyond Rangoon

-The Lion King

-K2

-Calendar Girl

-The House of the Spirits

-I'll Do Anything

-As Good As It Gets

-Point of No Return

-Thelma & Louise

-Regarding Henry

-Power of One

-The Prince of Egypt

None of that impressed you slightly?

Nope, nothing that made me want to go out and buy them.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

I still think Crimson Tide is a GREAT score. Also Prince of Egypt.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

I don't really think JNH was ever really that good in the first place.

Zimmer has written good work, but his popularity has certainly helped change the position of film scores in certain circles, and in a lot of ways, that is a very bad thing. Whoever said Bruickheimer was dead on. His shit factory did some real bad damage.

The worst thing Zimmer ever did was help unleash Steve Jablonsky on the world.

Listen to Steamboy, then come back.

Done. Position: unchanged.

[Ollie 1,059]

Crimson Tide made my ears bleed. That sound has become so overused and generic. Anytime I hear a power anthem I laugh at how cheesy it makes the situation seem.

[Brónach 1,302]

Crimson Tide made my ears bleed. That sound has become so overused and generic. Anytime I hear a power anthem I laugh at how cheesy it makes the situation seem.

[Ollie 1,059]

And yes I owned the CD to Crimson Tide back in the 90's.

[Wojo 2,453]

Crimson Tide made my ears bleed. That sound has become so overused and generic. Anytime I hear a power anthem I laugh at how cheesy it makes the situation seem.

You might want to see a doctor. Bleeding ears aren't good for men of any age.

I'm going to have to get this album. I like the sound of it.

[Ollie 1,059]

I could have sold my copy to you cheap.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Crimson Tide made my ears bleed. That sound has become so overused and generic. Anytime I hear a power anthem I laugh at how cheesy it makes the situation seem.

I actually like all the tense stuff rather than two 30 second power anthems on the hour long album. It's one of those rare instances where themes and motifs and rhythms are woven intricately and interestingly through what might otherwise end up being boring underscore. The submarine sounds thrown in for good measure. This is a very unique, very identifiable score.

[crocodile 8,000]

And yes I owned the CD to Crimson Tide back in the 90's.

Never heard it or watched the film. But I take it sounds like The Peacemaker?

Karol

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

The Peacemaker is a lot more generic to me. It's also not as tight and cohesive as Crimson tide.

[Neimoidian 14]

I don't really think JNH was ever really that good in the first place.

Zimmer has written good work, but his popularity has certainly helped change the position of film scores in certain circles, and in a lot of ways, that is a very bad thing. Whoever said Bruickheimer was dead on. His shit factory did some real bad damage.

The worst thing Zimmer ever did was help unleash Steve Jablonsky on the world.

Listen to Steamboy, then come back.

Steamboy is overrated IMO. It's really nothing special.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Steamboy sounds like the title of a gay porn movie!

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

I think it is actually...

[Kevin 22]

The Peacemaker is a lot more generic to me. It's also not as tight and cohesive as Crimson tide.

Broken Arrow and Peacemaker = Crimson Tide 2.0

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Steamboy and D-War are Jablonsky's best scores. Then there are bits and pieces of his other scores that I like. We've been through this, but I love his score for Transformers.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

True story. I just spent two hours listening to one of my lecturers waffle on about how to move forward we must listen to and do exactly as the great musicians did. Except that a lot of the great musicians didn't listen to their peers.

The greats listened to their forebearers, not their peers. One of the problems with the current crop of popular film composers is a lack of knowledge of the history of their profession, and that of 19th to 20th and 21st century classical music, and where it's heading. An ignorance that shows in their music.

Williams is the opposite of that.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

I was specifically referring to Jazz musicians of the 20th century, though I didn't really note that in my post.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

The greats listened to their forebearers, not their peers. One of the problems with the current crop of popular film composers is a lack of knowledge of the history of their profession, and that of 19th to 20th and 21st century classical music, and where it's heading. An ignorance that shows in their music.

I strongly disagree. Great composers don't need classical music or its history.

What they need is an understanding of sound and the physics thereof. This can exist exclusively from classical music, but classical training does to some degree tackle this topic. This is where classical music has an advantage, but it's not the be all and end all of good, complex, rich, deep music. Frankly it's a tiny corner of what music can be.

Film Composer ≠ Classical Composer.

[Salacius 7]

The greats listened to their forebearers, not their peers. One of the problems with the current crop of popular film composers is a lack of knowledge of the history of their profession, and that of 19th to 20th and 21st century classical music, and where it's heading. An ignorance that shows in their music.

I strongly disagree. Great composers don't need classical music or its history.

What they need is an understanding of sound and the physics thereof. This can exist exclusively from classical music, but classical training does to some degree tackle this topic. This is where classical music has an advantage, but it's not the be all and end all of good, complex, rich, deep music. Frankly it's a tiny corner of what music can be.

Film Composer ≠ Classical Composer.

With respect, I have to completely disagree with you. The reasons that you feel music composers don't need classical music or its history are the exact reasons why film scoring is at the horrific state it is today.

Filmscoring on its largest part if not all relies on orchestral music. Orchestral music has its roots deeply imbedded in rich musical history that was created over the centuries. This is where people like Goldsmith and Williams went right.

They didn’t write it off as a ’yesterday’s thing’ but embraced it , respected it and through it created masterpieces.

After Hans Zimmer (who let’s face it , is an over-glorified keyboard player, but an outstanding producer) gave the option of ‘simple’ self taught music to the world of filmscoring,

all ties to the traditionalism that the greats have taken their inspiration and knowledge from where cut.

Also I feel that it is pretty much impossible to write orchestral music if you don’t know your stuff. And by that I mean a ton of musical theory, instrumentation and orchestration.

There are people out there that didn’t have the right education and who work actively in creating film music today but with all respect to their works, it shows.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Crimson Tide made my ears bleed. That sound has become so overused and generic. Anytime I hear a power anthem I laugh at how cheesy it makes the situation seem.

I actually don't mind that score, as well as Backdraft and Broken Arrow. Today's Zimmer clones sound nothing like that, rather it's a pool of uninteresting synth noodling and underwhelming computer looping. When Goldsmith or Poledouris used synths, they did it with flair and sophistication.

[A24 4,331]

Steamboy sounds like the title of a gay porn movie!

Steam and gays? I don't see it. It sounds like an innocent Disney movie about a little boy helping his father to ride an old locomotive.

[Thor 7,493]

Have I said lately that Zimmer is one of my favourite composers, just barely after Williams, Elfman and Goldenthal?

I don't know...I just felt I had to say that with all this senseless Zimmer bashing going on, even if I may have said it earlier in the thread too.

That, and that I think film music is more vibrant and exciting as it has ever been!

Need some counterbalance here.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Need some counterbalance here.

Don't you mean counterpoint.

[Thor 7,493]

That would just make it noisy!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yeah, why wake the listener?

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

The greats listened to their forebearers, not their peers. One of the problems with the current crop of popular film composers is a lack of knowledge of the history of their profession, and that of 19th to 20th and 21st century classical music, and where it's heading. An ignorance that shows in their music.

I strongly disagree. Great composers don't need classical music or its history.

Name me great film composers that haven't.

What they need is an understanding of sound and the physics thereof. This can exist exclusively from classical music, but classical training does to some degree tackle this topic. This is where classical music has an advantage, but it's not the be all and end all of good, complex, rich, deep music. Frankly it's a tiny corner of what music can be.

By classical music, I'm not talking strictly about the classical period. But romanticism, baroque, impressionism, nationalism, expressionism, primitivism, neoclassicism, serialism, minimalism etc... And countless more.

[MSM 126]

You may see it as lifeless, but it's far from generic. His style was the first of its kind. It's only the composers who followed in his wake that made it sound generic.

No he became big by copying Mark Mancina.

[Kevin 22]

The greats listened to their forebearers, not their peers. One of the problems with the current crop of popular film composers is a lack of knowledge of the history of their profession, and that of 19th to 20th and 21st century classical music, and where it's heading. An ignorance that shows in their music.

I strongly disagree. Great composers don't need classical music or its history.

Name me great film composers that haven't.

What they need is an understanding of sound and the physics thereof. This can exist exclusively from classical music, but classical training does to some degree tackle this topic. This is where classical music has an advantage, but it's not the be all and end all of good, complex, rich, deep music. Frankly it's a tiny corner of what music can be.

By classical music, I'm not talking strictly about the classical period. But romanticism, baroque, impressionism, nationalism, expressionism, primitivism, neoclassicism, serialism, minimalism etc... And countless more.

You know that professional classical composers and musicians wouldn't want to touch film music with a 10 foot barge pole.

[MSM 126]

I don't really think JNH was ever really that good in the first place.

I agree, thanks for posting what I didn't dare to

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

The greats listened to their forebearers, not their peers. One of the problems with the current crop of popular film composers is a lack of knowledge of the history of their profession, and that of 19th to 20th and 21st century classical music, and where it's heading. An ignorance that shows in their music.

I strongly disagree. Great composers don't need classical music or its history.

Name me great film composers that haven't.

What they need is an understanding of sound and the physics thereof. This can exist exclusively from classical music, but classical training does to some degree tackle this topic. This is where classical music has an advantage, but it's not the be all and end all of good, complex, rich, deep music. Frankly it's a tiny corner of what music can be.

By classical music, I'm not talking strictly about the classical period. But romanticism, baroque, impressionism, nationalism, expressionism, primitivism, neoclassicism, serialism, minimalism etc... And countless more.

You know that professional classical composers and musicians wouldn't want to touch film music with a 10 foot barge pole.

Many have though.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Also I feel that it is pretty much impossible to write orchestral music if you don’t know your stuff. And by that I mean a ton of musical theory, instrumentation and orchestration.

All three of which are a derived from the behavior of sound, and are basically rigid constraints to achieve the signature sound of Western orchestral music.

"Classical training" is like this little planet in a musical universe, it's kinda neat, rich, complex, but at the end of the day it's just one tiny segment of possibility. And that's the problem with film music today. Everyone has struck upon the magical formulas that yield the most liked results in this school, and everyone keeps going back to the well. It grows tiresome on the ears.

What everyone should be doing is starting to leave that comfort zone, that bubble of "this combination of notes yields pleasant results to [Western] human ears," that is dictated by classical music's interpretation of the behavior of sound.

[Brónach 1,302]

Do you have any example?

[Koray Savas 2,251]

After Hans Zimmer (who let’s face it , is an over-glorified keyboard player, but an outstanding producer) gave the option of ‘simple’ self taught music to the world of filmscoring,

all ties to the traditionalism that the greats have taken their inspiration and knowledge from where cut.

It seems like you have a personal vendetta against Zimmer, who frankly didn't do anything too different when he first started composing. Hell he got all his ideas from Morricone and Stanley Myers. Blame them.

That, and that I think film music is more vibrant and exciting as it has ever been!

I agree.

You may see it as lifeless, but it's far from generic. His style was the first of its kind. It's only the composers who followed in his wake that made it sound generic.

No he became big by copying Mark Mancina.

No, he became popular because his score to Rain Man is damn brilliant. He was nominated for his first major feature.

[Kevin 22]

Actually Mark Mancina is better for writing for orchestra than Hans Zimmer. If you listen to various Mancina scores like Speed 2 and Twister.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

That, and that I think film music is more vibrant and exciting as it has ever been!

I agree.

You need your heads examined.

[Ollie 1,059]

Quite a few members here need their heads examined...

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Also I feel that it is pretty much impossible to write orchestral music if you don’t know your stuff. And by that I mean a ton of musical theory, instrumentation and orchestration.

All three of which are a derived from the behavior of sound, and are basically rigid constraints to achieve the signature sound of Western orchestral music.

"Classical training" is like this little planet in a musical universe, it's kinda neat, rich, complex, but at the end of the day it's just one tiny segment of possibility. And that's the problem with film music today. Everyone has struck upon the magical formulas that yield the most liked results in this school, and everyone keeps going back to the well. It grows tiresome on the ears.

What everyone should be doing is starting to leave that comfort zone, that bubble of "this combination of notes yields pleasant results to [Western] human ears," that is dictated by classical music's interpretation of the behavior of sound.

By classical music, I'm talking about art music. World art music, that's distinct from folk, jazz, and pop. And often the sounds aren't conventionally pleasant, nor is at as circumscribed as you believe. Everything from Landini to Korea's Unsuk Chin.

[Thor 7,493]

Bah. Orchestral music is just boring and old. Nobody listens to that stuff anymore. As Indiana Jones would say: "It belongs in a museum!".

John Williams has ruined film music forever with his boring geezer clichée music that is ripped from classical composers.

He, he....you see, anyone can do blanket statements.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Complete and chronogical releases are all useless.

Hey, your right. Very easy....

[Salacius 7]

After Hans Zimmer (who let’s face it , is an over-glorified keyboard player, but an outstanding producer) gave the option of ‘simple’ self taught music to the world of filmscoring,

all ties to the traditionalism that the greats have taken their inspiration and knowledge from where cut.

It seems like you have a personal vendetta against Zimmer, who frankly didn't do anything too different when he first started composing. Hell he got all his ideas from Morricone and Stanley Myers. Blame them.

Can't find the words to say how I feel about the change that man brought to the film music world. He is not solely responsible but he has a huge part in shaping music for films the way it is today.

[Kevin 22]

After Hans Zimmer (who let’s face it , is an over-glorified keyboard player, but an outstanding producer) gave the option of ‘simple’ self taught music to the world of filmscoring,

all ties to the traditionalism that the greats have taken their inspiration and knowledge from where cut.

It seems like you have a personal vendetta against Zimmer, who frankly didn't do anything too different when he first started composing. Hell he got all his ideas from Morricone and Stanley Myers. Blame them.

Can't find the words to say how I feel about the change that man brought to the film music world. He is not solely responsible but he has a huge part in shaping music for films the way it is today.

Do you honestly think that he planned that modern film music would turn out this way? He just loves what he does. Remote Control/Media Ventures was basically intended to be like Apple when the Beatles first made it.

[Wojo 2,453]

I don't blame Zimmer for doing anything wrong. He didn't break anyone else's knuckles when they tried to do their own thing.

I blame some greats for dying. Goldsmith, Barry, and Poledouris.

I blame other greats for quasi-retiring. Williams.

I blame other greats for not being great anymore. Horner, Silvestri.

There are many people who still think rather highly of Elfman and Giacchino.