Which iconic theme do you prefer?

[Quintus 5,399]

He's a fanboi, what do you expect?

[Naïve Old Fart 9,526]

Well, thanks for the valuable input, Richard. A well thought-out argument that certainly puts things in another perspective....

Thank you, friend.

[JB11sos 0]

That song has nothing to do with the music of PotC, just the films.

^ What he said.

You guys must not know the Pirates theme that well then, because the chorus in that video is clearly using the chord progression of the theme while Michael Bolton sings a slowed down version of the main melody.

Please tell me you can hear that?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Sounds to me like it could me a heavily modified version.

Please tell me you can hear that?

Not everyone is musically literate, please try not to be arrogant!

[Jay 37,359]

It noticed the similarity right away. The synth beats under Bolton's choruses remind me of the Pirate's theme.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

well, aren't you a clever boy.

[JB11sos 0]

Sounds to me like it could me a heavily modified version.

Please tell me you can hear that?

Not everyone is musically literate, please try not to be arrogant!

No arrogance meant, my apologies. I just thought that people from a board like this would jump all over a reference like that!

It noticed the similarity right away. The synth beats under Bolton's choruses remind me of the Pirate's theme.

Yeah, it's quite an awesome incorporation of the sound style as well.

Also, Thirteenth Step is incredible!

[Jay 37,359]

Also, Thirteenth Step is incredible!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

No arrogance meant, my apologies. I just thought that people from a board like this would jump all over a reference like that!

You do know this is a John Williams forum, not a Zimmer board?

Besides, it took some years to catch Yoda's Theme in E.T. and Jabba's Theme in TPM.

[Jay 37,359]

Besides, it took some years to catch Yoda's Theme in E.T. and Jabba's Theme in TPM.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

In my defense I heard ET before TESB and simply never made the connection.

Also the Emperor's Theme/Augie's Band thing is still hotly contested!

[Jay 37,359]

Both (ET/Yoda and TPM/Yoda) are obvious, but the ET one especially. Anyone who had heard the TESB LP once instantly recognized Yoda's theme on the ET OST or in theaters seeing the movie I am sure

I didn't pick up on Jabba's Theme in TPM right away, but it didn't take long

Didn't notice Emperor's Theme in Augie's until it was pointed out online. It is interesting that that one is still being debated 12 years later.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Both (ET/Yoda and TPM/Yoda) are obvious, but the ET one especially.

Yes, but you still need to pick up on them. Not everyone's mind is into "theme reconition mode".

Didn't notice Emperor's Theme in Augie's until it was pointed out online. It is interesting that that one is still being debated 12 years later.

Apparently the notes are different

[Jay 37,359]

I know, but it still sounds like the Emperor's Theme to me >shrug<

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It is interesting that that one is still being debated 12 years later.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Point is, 99.9% of people won't notice the reference in "Jack Sparrow."

[Jay 37,359]

I completely disagree with that statement. I think most people will.

[Wojo 2,453]

99.7% of people would cover three standard deviations. 99.9% is higher than that. You really sure your math is right, KS?

[JB11sos 0]

Point is, 99.9% of people won't notice the reference in "Jack Sparrow."

I completely disagree with that statement. I think most people will.

I'm with Jason. It's not really a stretch to think people will recognize one of the most popular film score themes of the past decade being incorporated into a parody of the films it came from, some of the most popular of the past decade. In fact, it seems like more of a stretch to think that people won't recognize it.

[Jay 37,359]

I don't even LIKE the Pirates scores at all, and I instantly recognized the chorus was an homage to the scores

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Jason. you seem to forget that not everyone, actually...most people cannot read music, have had no music education and have little interest in the more theoretical side of music.

The great thing about music is that you CAN love it without knowing anything about it.

[Jay 37,359]

What does that to do with anything we are discussing here?

And I certainly didn't forget that, and agree with all your points.

But what do they have to do with Jack Sparrow?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Because you are "musically literate" for you it is probably far easier to recognize if one piece of music is an ofshoot from something else.

Though I agree the Jack Sparrow one is fairly recognisable.

[Quintus 5,399]

What does that to do with anything we are discussing here?

And I certainly didn't forget that, and agree with all your points.

But what do they have to do with Jack Sparrow?

You've changed.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

No, he's still quite pedantic

[Jay 37,359]

Because you are "musically literate" for you it is probably far easier to recognize if one piece of music is an ofshoot from something else.

Though I agree the Jack Sparrow one is fairly recognisable.

I think the average Joe American watching that clip, would recognize the music under the chorus assuming they had seen the Pirates films. Not only does the theme play often and loud in the films and right away under all the end credits (from what I remember), I've heard it at sporting events and on commericals on TV, etc.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Quint, you see!

[Ollie 1,059]

I didn't recognize it. Of course it's a crap theme to begin with so that's part of my ignorance.

And frankly I don't care. My only interest was the humor of the sketch.

Now the 3 Williams ones I recognized immediately upon hearing the soundtracks for the very first time.

[Jay 37,359]

That's pretty impressive if you really recognized Jabba's Theme in the pod race music and Emperor's Theme in Augie's on your VERY first listen ever.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I listened to TPM months before the film was released here. I did not catch Jabba's Theme till after I saw the movie. Same with Yoda in E.T.

[Ollie 1,059]

It was obvious.

Of course if you realize how many times I played the original trilogy scores between 1977 and 1999, it would be hard to miss. Plus I was paying more attention to see if I could hear any references from the original trilogy.

The brass fanfare for the first half of Jabba's theme is tricky to distinguish, but the second half statement of the theme in the lower brass was where I picked it up. Augies wasn't tricky either. It sounded like the Emperor's theme right off the bat.

I listened to TPM months before the film was released here. I did not catch Jabba's Theme till after I saw the movie. Same with Yoda in E.T.

Well in all fairness I knew Yoda's theme from TESB so it was hard to miss. I can understand if you see E.T. first before Empire. I had the E.T. LP before I saw the film and the reference to Yoda's theme caught me off guard until I looked at the track title and kinda figured there would be a Star Wars reference in the film. There were times, as a 14 year old, where I was actually be intelligent.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

There were times, as a 14 year old, where I was actually be intelligent.

[Ollie 1,059]

And to be fair, there are quite a few obvious references I've missed in other film scores.

On a related subject, that's one of the things I love about Kamen's Die Hard. You can listen to it and hear all the slight nods to Christmas songs throughout the score.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Not to mention Singing In The Rain.

I've been told Beethoven's 9th is in there too somewhere....

[Datameister 2,042]

I never noticed that theme from Pirates being used in the song, but you're right, it's there. The thing is, it's only the first four chords, and that progression is not very rare or unique at all, and it's in a completely different style, of course. If not for the content of the song, I would totally chalk it up to coincidence. Then consider that this isn't the most commonly heard theme in Pirates...it's just a generic action theme that shows up in a few cues.

[Wojo 2,453]

But what do they have to do with Jack Sparrow?

That's Captain Jack Sparrow. I'm sure there is a Captain in there somewhere.

[Thor 7,504]

Jason. you seem to forget that not everyone, actually...most people cannot read music, have had no music education and have little interest in the more theoretical side of music.

The great thing about music is that you CAN love it without knowing anything about it.

Exactly. You can even write a master thesis on film music without being totally immersed in technical lingo, basically because the music operates in a representative medium (to use a fancy word), and then all is fair game. It still needs to have analytical credence, and it demands a lot of your adjective skills, but it's perfectly doable.

[crocodile 8,012]

Apparently the notes are different

I know, but it still sounds like the Emperor's Theme to me >shrug<

I thought this is simply Emperor's theme in major key.

Karol

[Datameister 2,042]

It's related to the Emperor's theme, but not directly enough for it to be conclusively, self-evidently intentional. If that was how Williams arrived at that melody, he made some additional modifications to it.

[Faleel 5,347]

I thought it was just played backwards, faster, and with children?

[Datameister 2,042]

No, not backwards, and not necessarily faster - there's at least one statement of the theme at a similar tempo in ROTJ. If you take the rhythm and basic melodic contour of the first two measures of the Emperor's theme, fiddle around with them a little, and put them into a pentatonic scale (instead of minor), you end up with the first two measures of the melody heard in Augie's. The rest is different, though.

[Wojo 2,453]

They're the same basic melody, and that's enough for me. Of course Augie's Municipal Band is longer than the Emperor's Theme, because the latter theme (sadly) never got an extended performance like a concert suite, and certainly was never used like a song in Return of the Jedi. It would just be repeated over and over by different instruments in different keys for its "final" appearances when Palpy zaps the shit out of Luke, and reprised when Sidious appears.

The "rest" that is different in Augie's -- the middle part -- was necessary in order to turn the theme into a song, at which point the theme breaks down into improvisation. It had to be similar enough to even begin this connection, but not so much the same that it clubs us over the head. Remember, at the time, there were certain plot elements that Lucas may have wanted to keep a mystery. Luke and Leia's mother was never named, so was Padme the one? Were Sidious and Palpatine the same person? Stuff like that.

It's delicious irony that the Naboo would play a bright, happy version of this theme in celebration of their newly elected chancellor who saves them, long before (after?) it's used in a darker style when his evil is revealed. With little else in the latter prequel installments to find musically interesting, this is enough for me.

[Datameister 2,042]

I know the Emperor's theme isn't super long, but there's still part of it that has no equivalent in Augie's. Makes it a little less clear-cut, IMO, though it's still totally possible that this is what Williams intended.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

people are not familiar with Zimmer music on as large a scale as Williams, probably a quality thing. I do like Jack's theme, one of the few zimmeresk pieces of music I can tolerate. I'm still waiting for the day that Zimmer is exposed as a former German guard at one of the death camps thus ending his "musical" career.

[Faleel 5,347]

Why does this thread exist?

Superman all the way BTW

[Wojo 2,453]

Regarding The Emperor's Theme:

The cover story from issue #067 of the Star Wars Insider, from May 2003, was "The Ultimate Return of the Jedi Insider's Guide." Fact #36 (of 100) reads:

The Emperor's Theme. This supremely eerie piece of music, sung by a male chorus apparently composed of tortured ghouls, is the perfect soundtrack to accompany Palpatine's malevolence. Even better, John Williams insterted "The Emperor's Theme" into The Phantom Menace's end celebration, this time sung by a happy chorus of children - a brilliant musical foreshadowing of the Emperor's ascendance.

Arguing against an "official" Star Wars publication is an exercise in pointlessness.

Yes, you can find every issue of The Star Wars Insider online if you look hard enough, and I'm sure I shouldn't post the links here.

[Faleel 5,347]

I am not sure I would trust something that says "Insterted"

[Datameister 2,042]

Regarding The Emperor's Theme:

The cover story from issue #067 of the Star Wars Insider, from May 2003, was "The Ultimate Return of the Jedi Insider's Guide." Fact #36 (of 100) reads:

The Emperor's Theme. This supremely eerie piece of music, sung by a male chorus apparently composed of tortured ghouls, is the perfect soundtrack to accompany Palpatine's malevolence. Even better, John Williams insterted "The Emperor's Theme" into The Phantom Menace's end celebration, this time sung by a happy chorus of children - a brilliant musical foreshadowing of the Emperor's ascendance.

Arguing against an "official" Star Wars publication is an exercise in pointlessness.

Yes, you can find every issue of The Star Wars Insider online if you look hard enough, and I'm sure I shouldn't post the links here.

Fair enough - I didn't realize it was mentioned in an official source. Thanks!

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

he's a pirate

Even if I had been drinking for two weeks, I would create better music

(with my 80's Yamaha synth) than this...theme.!? No, it

is not a theme, it is just hysterical noise.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

This is like my first thread on this board all over again.

I don't care how much you want to stab Zimmer in the eye, you cannot deny that it is in fact MUSIC with NOTES written by a COMPOSER.