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Koray Savas

Modern Film Scores Are Terrible

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Yep, you don't like film scores.

That's hilarius...I don't like filmscores because a) I dislike anything to do with the Zimmerpeople or b) because I like music to be mistakes free?

There are so many composers and scores out there that don't sound like Zimmer or Giacchino. So much to explore. Heck there are tons of Williams clones you can listen to if thats all you're really into. It seems like you're kind of missing out on all of it.

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I think perhaps Salacius is more disappointed in so many film-MAKERS that seem to want this repetitive droney BS, so that "the music doesn't get in the way of my movie" mentality that is out there. It is definitely not wrong to want the perfect marriage between music and story.

Perhaps he likes super-hero movies, which have had the most terrible scores lately, and has been disappointed time and again. I could understand that for sure.

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You got to know your shit, end of.

The composers that blow me away are the ones that were trained since they were 5.

The ones that leave me indifferent or I dislike are over glorified keyboard players and self-taught musicians.

My 2 cents

Completely agree!

I don't say of course that who ever is a trained composer writes masterpieces, but a very good composition needs both talent AND knowledge.

The compositions that I love that are coming from untrained composers, can be counted in the fingers of one hand only.

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I think perhaps Salacius is more disappointed in so many film-MAKERS that seem to want this repetitive droney BS, so that "the music doesn't get in the way of my movie" mentality that is out there. It is definitely not wrong to want the perfect marriage between music and story.

Perhaps he likes super-hero movies, which have had the most terrible scores lately, and has been disappointed time and again. I could understand that for sure.

Perhaps. Sure, blockbuster scores have gone rather stale recently. But his post seems to imply that almost scores out there are in the vein of Zimmer right now. He makes it sound like Tintin and War Horse were the only great scores in the last few years. Just because Zimmer is still composing out there, Salacius seems to be dismissing a large number of diverse scores. Which goes to say he pretty much only likes Williams.

You got to know your shit, end of.

The composers that blow me away are the ones that were trained since they were 5.

The ones that leave me indifferent or I dislike are over glorified keyboard players and self-taught musicians.

My 2 cents

Completely agree!

I don't say of course that who ever is a trained composer writes masterpieces, but a very good composition needs both talent AND knowledge.

The compositions that I love that are coming from untrained composers, can be counted in the fingers of one hand only.

Guess you're not a big fan of Danny Elfman.

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You got to know your shit, end of.

The composers that blow me away are the ones that were trained since they were 5.

The ones that leave me indifferent or I dislike are over glorified keyboard players and self-taught musicians.

My 2 cents

Completely agree!

I don't say of course that who ever is a trained composer writes masterpieces, but a very good composition needs both talent AND knowledge.

The compositions that I love that are coming from untrained composers, can be counted in the fingers of one hand only.

Guess you're not a big fan of Danny Elfman.

Is he REALLY unknowledgable?

Because I can't believe it listening to the music he's writing (and yes, I'm a big fan. mostly of his older scores)

When I say knowledge, i mean that someone should know to read notes, study scores etc., even if he learned on his own. Not necessarily in a college. (and I would believe Elfman is in that category)

When I say untrained composers i mean those who don't know where is C or D, and what is a C major, can't read a full score etc...

If Elfman doesn't know at all to read or write music, then i must say he is the best film composer of the world (better than Williams).

But his music doesn't show that.

A use of harmonies, counterpoint, and melody like that, can't be from such a person..

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Oh no. He's most certainly knowledgeable! Its just you "completely agreed" with a post that condemns all self-taught composers and anyone who hasn't been trained since the age of 5. ;)

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well, i understood it like:

self-taught= person who just learned to play and compose by experience but he doesn't really know what he's playing/composing and can't read/write music

and ok, that "5 year old", i took it as a way of speech.. Did Williams start from 5 years old?

edit: ok, I found it. He started from 7. ;)

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And the man knows his keys and composers. He's not some dolt that keeps banging away at the keyboard until he gets the right power anthem. ;)

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Oh no. He's most certainly knowledgeable! Its just you "completely agreed" with a post that condemns all self-taught composers and anyone who hasn't been trained since the age of 5. ;)

Christ man, I didn't condemn, it's only a dislike from my behalf

Figure of speech ;)

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You don't think Elfman's music is fluid?

Help me out again, are you a fan of Williams' modern action scoring?

Depends on how one defines "fluid". It's a weird word to describe his music anyway. "not fluid" as in "not smooth enough". Or just bad.

Elfman has edge.

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They arent what floats my boat. I guess I'm a themes guy, and Hollywood hates and distrusts themes this last decade or so.

In essence Rick Berman was in front of the wave when he dictated that Star Trek: The Next Generation should not have any recurring thematic material and adopt a "sonic wallpaper" type of scoring.

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Not all of them are terrible. But when filmmakers make bad temp choices, when they cater to the lowest common denominator, when they fear and avoid anything resembling innovation or deviation from the current generic sound, when they creatively throttle their composers - yes, the results are utterly pointless.

Sometimes it is the fault of the composers. But not often.

PS, I recommend reading through the thread.

Will it make me rage?

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PS, I recommend reading through the thread.

Will it make me rage?

Might make you laugh.

I think Data nailed something in this post, especially the highlighted sentence.

I don't think Bruckheimer can be solely blamed for it. Film music is what it is today because this style is easier to successfully imitate, and because it appeals to the general public in a very visceral, popular-music-like way. As with any trend, it's hard to pinpoint exactly what made it become such a big deal, but these sorts of scores are comparatively easy to write, and they seem to work well for the majority of movie-goers.

Another factor is simply the cultural climate these days...the music that Williams and Goldsmith and their brethren became famous for is very emotionally open. It has a certain sincerity and vulnerability and subtlety and optimism to it. That's not so popular these days. Zimmer and friends write music that is "cooler." It more closely approximates the feelings people get from non-orchestral popular music, and people go for that.

In any case, nothing lasts forever. Film scores will continue to change in the years and decades to come, and although we'll never see a repeat of the 70s through 90s, I don't think it's unrealistic to hope for film music to be reinvented again before too long. Power anthems and brooding ostinati will feel dated before long, and not just to jaded film score buffs like us.

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Yeah I think that's absolutely true. And it's not something I see as a negative.

It's the stagnation, the lack of anything truly fresh, which is negative. Much of that "cinematic pop" idiom remains unexplored, beyond the now two decade old dark-and-gritty corner.

Hans is one of the few who actively progresses that style. The problem is that everyone else is still stuck where he started, or at best, on the TDK ideology.

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Modern film scores aren't necessarily terrible, but the overwhelming majority of them certainly are boring. When you say they just "do their job and fit the film", that's what's called "phoning it in".

But maybe that's the way things should be. Maybe the composers we all liked from the olden days lile Williams and Goldsmith etc. were egomaniacs who thought they could create innovative and distinctive music for film and get away with it. They took advantage of the times when Hollywood was more accepting of diverse styles and laughed all the way to the bank.

These days, composers are disciplined by their superiors (producers and executives) and told they just need to slap some sonic wallpaper onto the film amd be done with it. No more need for pretty album arrangements for people to appreciate, it's served its purpose in the film!

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Are modern film scores still terrible?

Most of them are pretty bad yea. However, every single year there are outright gems as good as anything from the better years of film scoring. You just gotta pay attention to find them.

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PS, I recommend reading through the thread.

Will it make me rage?

Might make you laugh.

You're right, I laughed. Some utterly bizarre opinions in here (and not just the obvious ones) which I would hope that time has eroded.

I think, somewhat predictably, Wojo/Blumenkohl offered a completely sound and logical answer to the thread's question early on, which was promptly totally ignored.

And what a damn shame that Salacious isn't around anymore. Seemed like a good time.

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