Memoirs Of A Geisha

[Sandor 459]

This week Memoirs Of A Geisha played on TV here in Holland. I decided to watch it, just to hear how John Williams' score supports the film.

Although I've never found any true appreciation for this particular score before, I've now come to realize that Memoirs Of A Geisha is one of the defining scores of Williams' career. It doesn't match the great scores he created during his creative peak (1975-1982), nor does it eclipse Schindler's List or Born On The Fourth Of July in dramatic power. But the score is one of the most effective in Williams' repertoire and is a personal favorite of his.

The movie itself may not be the great film it could have been, but the performances of basically the whole cast (Ziyi Zhang in particular) make the film very, very endearing. I think this is what inspired Williams to deliver such a highly detailed and melodically rich score.

The score is very underrated in my opinion, despite the awards it won. The 'Brush on Silk'-scene is so brilliantly scored, and the 'Confluence'-scene is among the top 10 scored scenes in Williams' career. Really; it's that good.

For those who dismiss 00's Williams, you should try to watch the movie. If the "Hollywoodised" material prevents you from enjoying the movie, just listen how much love Williams put in this score. In the end, the score is a winner. It may me the most effective part of the film, apart from the perfomances.

[Incanus 5,519]

I agree on Williams' score. It fits the film like a glove and in part also defines the setting and culture and most of all the characters. Superb writing for soloists and orchestra and one of the highlights of 00's.

Rather than to reiterate my appreciation yet again for this score here are my analysis on the score and the subsequent Suite for Cello and Orchestra (posted in the Reviews section of the MB):

Memoirs of a Geisha

Suite from Memoirs of a Geisha for Cello and Orchestra

[Quintus 5,391]

I've only ever heard the The Chairmans Waltz, it's a decent piece. Never seen the film.

[Josh500 1,602]

I am amazed that some JW fans here have never seen this movie... JW was nominated for an Oscar for this one, and with good reason!

You'd appreciate the score so much more.

[Sandor 459]

I've only ever heard the The Chairmans Waltz, it's a decent piece. Never seen the film.

It is a great piece indeed. In the film it really performs miracles. It is also used at the beginning of the End Credits suite.

[crocodile 6,294]

Yes, the score at the very least almost makes the film worthwhile.

Karol

[Josh500 1,602]

Actually you can see the whole movie on youtube!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xUnwmcrucM

[crocodile 6,294]

I always loved the shakuhachi blast (Horner-style) right after the fire scene when Hatsumomo virtually disappears from the screen. Or the moment where Sayuri is expecting to see the Chairman and you can hear a hint of his theme (in As The Water...), but it's not him.

Karol

[Josh500 1,602]

Actually I saw this movie in the theater, and I remember being absolutely blown away by the score.

"Going to School," "The Chairman's Waltz," "Becoming a Geisha," and "Confluence" are probably my favorite cues/scenes.

[crocodile 6,294]

Well, the score is relatively well mixed (as compared to AOTC, ROTS or POA) in the film. So they make a good use of it.

Karol

[Sandor 459]

Well, the score is relatively well mixed (as compared to AOTC, ROTS or POA) in the film. So they make a good use of it.

Karol

True.

[nightscape94 965]

"Confluence" is awesome, and this is a very under-appreciated score. I aways felt that Munich that same year was also glanced over by many.

Tim

[Neimoidian 13]

I find it his best score of the 00s and definitely one of the best soundtracks from that decade. The way it works with the visuals is quitessence of movie scoring to me. A good friend of mine has recently me that for the first time ever -after wathing MoaG - she had to find out who had done the score and that she finally understood my craze about that Williams guy. So that's something, I guess.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,476]

I know the movie has been criticized for being an inaccurate soulless western interpretation of Japanese culture, a cast that isn't fully Japanese, etc. But most agree it LOOKS stunning (and it does) and the Maestro's score is good. And it is. It's the type of score that you know Williams prefers to do. The serious dramatic adult films where he can really show his diversity, not just the ol' bombastic popcorn flicks we all love.

I personally enjoy the movie.

[Luke Skywalker 1,285]

This and the JP thread only shows that Roald changes POW ramdomly over time and wehemently defends new positions opposite to his previous ones (which were also defended by heart).

What credibility can he have?

[Sandor 459]

This and the JP thread only shows that Roald changes POW ramdomly over time and wehemently defends new positions opposite to his previous ones (which were also defended by heart).

What credibility can he have?

Que..?

[Taikomochi 783]

Geisha is my favorite Williams score, and by the fact of him being my favorite composer, my favorite score.

[Sandor 459]

I find it his best score of the 00s and definitely one of the best soundtracks from that decade. The way it works with the visuals is quitessence of movie scoring to me. A good friend of mine has recently me that for the first time ever -after wathing MoaG - she had to find out who had done the score and that she finally understood my craze about that Williams guy. So that's something, I guess.

Very cool. I had a similar experience once with a colleague.

[Romão 1,931]

My favorite scene is the As The Water scene. That's one of the best marriages of image and music I have ever seen.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,251]

I find it his best score of the 00s and definitely one of the best soundtracks from that decade. The way it works with the visuals is quitessence of movie scoring to me. A good friend of mine has recently me that for the first time ever -after wathing MoaG - she had to find out who had done the score and that she finally understood my craze about that Williams guy. So that's something, I guess.

Very cool. I had a similar experience once with a colleague.

I like the score, but I'm not yet past forgetting the similarity between this scores main theme of The Gondor theme.

[Ollie 859]

Sometimes a film comes along that is well made but just doesn't have an appeal to audiences.

I think MOAG is probably one of those films, there's really nothing bad I can say about it. Williams' score may just be his best of this decade and he was indeed "robbed" of collecting one more Oscar for his mantle piece.

[Sandor 459]

I find it his best score of the 00s and definitely one of the best soundtracks from that decade. The way it works with the visuals is quitessence of movie scoring to me. A good friend of mine has recently me that for the first time ever -after wathing MoaG - she had to find out who had done the score and that she finally understood my craze about that Williams guy. So that's something, I guess.

Very cool. I had a similar experience once with a colleague.

I like the score, but I'm not yet past forgetting the similarity between this scores main theme of The Gondor theme.

Que...?

[Richard Penna 2,083]

Umm, there's maybe a vague similarity in the 'B' part but I hear nothing more than that.

Hadn't even noticed that until I hummed them in a row.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,251]

Structurally I find them to be very very similar. I made the association the first time I ever heard the CD and have never fully been able to shake it.

[Sandor 459]

Structurally I find them to be very very similar. I made the association the first time I ever heard the CD and have never fully been able to shake it.

I think the two themes are very different and also serve a different purpose. I'll give you the first three notes though, but that's it.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,251]

No it goes beyond the first 3 notes, The entire structure is similar. And I agree the intent of the themes are very different.

It's just a personal quirk.

BTW, were do you stand now on Augie's Band/ The Emperor's Theme?

[BLUMENKOHL 1,064]

I think talking about elegance in the Deathly Hallows thread, I have to say Memoirs of a Geisha the score is Williams' most elegant score since he converted to throwing notes on the page for superficial complexity (his modern style). [i call it the composer's lens flare ailment]

This is a score that you listen to, and know that despite the fact that it may not be littered with notes to create that false sense of "sophistication" and "complexity," you can see each note that was placed on the page arrived there through hours of thinking and exploration and headache. You can hear how difficult a score it was to write. And Williams came through. And the score has a depth and beauty and grace that you rarely get, even from the maestro circa new millenium.

Easily either #1 or #2 of Williams output since the 2000s.

[Sandor 459]

BTW, were do you stand now on Augie's Band/ The Emperor's Theme?

LOL That's between me and God now...

[Romão 1,931]

At the 4:10 mark, it's sublime

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBuCCyPA_8w&feature=related

[Taikomochi 783]

I like the score, but I'm not yet past forgetting the similarity between this scores main theme of The Gondor theme.

I don't know if that is a legitimate complaint. I can see how they are similar if I really think about it, but I would have never drawn that connection, and I've listened to ROTK a hundred times. They are used so differently that even though they may seem similar, they're not similar at all. The tones are so incredibly different.

I certainly doubt Williams plagiarized it, even unintentionally. Probably a coincidence, anyways.

[Sandor 459]

I like the score, but I'm not yet past forgetting the similarity between this scores main theme of The Gondor theme.

I don't know if that is a legitimate complaint. I can see how they are similar if I really think about it, but I would have never drawn that connection, and I've listened to ROTK a hundred times. They are used so differently that even though they may seem similar, they're not similar at all. The tones are so incredibly different.

I certainly doubt Williams plagiarized it, even unintentionally. Probably a coincidence, anyways.

+ 1

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,251]

As I said, it is a personal quirk. I'm not saying Williams stole something.

[Sandor 459]

As I said, it is a personal quirk. I'm not saying Williams stole something.

You get a + 1 for that too then...!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,251]

I'd rather have some Cider.

[Sandor 459]

I'd rather have some Cider.

Ahhh... I have some here (and some stronger stuff)... If you ever make it to Zwijndrecht, we'll drink some together.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,251]

free booze!

"I'll be right here."

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,476]

As I said, it is a personal quirk. I'm not saying Williams stole something.

I seem to remember that in Honduras he was accused of being a plagiarist rather than a composer.

[Sandor 459]

As I said, it is a personal quirk. I'm not saying Williams stole something.

I seem to remember that in Honduras he was accused of being a plagiarist rather than a composer.

Honduras... The a**holes.

[Brónach 490]

As I said, it is a personal quirk. I'm not saying Williams stole something.

I seem to remember that in Honduras he was accused of being a plagiarist rather than a composer.

What happened ?

[Wojo 2,442]

As I said, it is a personal quirk. I'm not saying Williams stole something.

I seem to remember that in Honduras he was accused of being a plagiarist rather than a composer.

Subtle but clever.

[Jay 27,216]

I like the score, but I'm not yet past forgetting the similarity between this scores main theme of The Gondor theme.

Que...?

http://www.jwfan.com...ndpost&p=509429

http://www.jwfan.com...ndpost&p=535200

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,251]

Thank you jason.

SO I GUESS IT'S NOT JUST ME TALKING OUT OF MY ASS, FELLOWS!

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,476]

Well the beginning of Anakin's Dark Deeds sounds like something from LOTR. Williams is probably a fan of Shore's.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,251]

It's called temp tracking.

[Brónach 490]

If I'm remembering correctly Sayuri's theme, I don't see it.

[Marcus 385]

It's called temp tracking.

It's called absolute coincidence, and extremely vague resemblance at that. Realistically, it's called intervals of 5ths, 4ths, 2nds and flat 7ths, in other words, pentatonic intervals, found in almost all musical cultures, and a common denominator in Japanese and Celtic music (citing one example among legion).

I highly doubt "Memoirs" was temp'ed with music from TLotR, nor do I even think Williams has paid any serious attention to Shore's scores. And if so, I would assume he'd find the "Gondor"-theme's rather wooden construction of little interest, and of no lasting impression.

[Once 505]

It's called sarcasm, I'm sure.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,251]

It's called temp tracking.

It's called absolute coincidence, and extremely vague resemblance at that. Realistically, it's called intervals of 5ths, 4ths, 2nds and flat 7ths, in other words, pentatonic intervals, found in almost all musical cultures, and a common denominator in Japanese and Celtic music (citing one example among legion).

I highly doubt "Memoirs" was temp'ed with music from TLotR, nor do I even think Williams has paid any serious attention to Shore's scores. And if so, I would assume he'd find the "Gondor"-theme's rather wooden construction of little interest, and of no lasting impression.

Marcus, i was referring to the part of Anakin's Dark Deeds thats sounds very similar to the opening of the Treason Of Isengard. Not Memoirs

[crocodile 6,294]

You mean the seduction of the Ring bit?

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,251]

Yes.