The movie that destroyed great SFX movies

[Sandor 797]

You have just romanticized JP. You have made yourself believe it's better than it really is, probably because at times the movie REMINDS us of the really great movie it could have been.

No. I can't agree with that.

Back in 1993 when I say those brachiasaurus's on screen, accompanied by that music! That's a goose bump moment. Now 18 years later we have become desensitized because we have seen other film makers do the same thing so many times. But at that time, parts of the movie were truly awe-inspiring.

Then you don't get me completely. I still find that scene - and the T-Rex scene - AMAZING and SUPERB. Until this day. It is EXACTLY those scenes that belong in a MUCH BETTER movie and I think a lot of people attribute the effect these scenes have to the ENTIRE movie.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Thank you. Oh, and don't forget Jumanji.

That's another great example. A lot of CGI beasts. But it does not have the goose bump factor that JP did have.

Then you don't get me completely. I still find that scene - and the T-Rex scene - AMAZING and SUPERB. Until this day. It is EXACTLY those scenes that belong in a MUCH BETTER movie and I think a lot of people attribute the effect these scenes have to the ENTIRE movie.

But I tend to judge a movie as a whole, not as a collection of scenes. Those 2 scenes are part of the movie. They are good, so the elevate the quality of the film as a whole. Like the opening and closing battle in SPR elevate the whole movie for me.

[Ollie 1,059]

Good morning all, good grief this thing is still going?

*reaches for a cup of coffee*

[soundwave 0]

The characters in the book are far better then the characters in the film.

They are quite one-dimensional.

Just compare the lead from Jurassic Park with the lead from Jaws, Spielbergs first recordbreaker.

The way I see it is that characters in books are more fleshed out since there's more room for the exposition. Now I know that is not a valid excuse like you pointed out with Brody, although I'm not so sure there's much difference between Brody and Grant in terms of character development except in the fact that Brody had more people to interact with and a different set of problems (not only was he trying to save the people from being eaten but also protect his career from the bureaucrats that were pressuring him to dO the wrong thing where Grant was merely trying to survive with two kids in his care). Grant has a great deal of development, going from a guy who wants nothing to do with kids to someone that has to protect them. We even see how his interaction with thr kids change as the film progresses. I guess the interaction with other people can develop a character more had they been with few people or none (with the exception of Cast Away). I don't know, I think I'm rambling.

[Sandor 797]

Thank you. Oh, and don't forget Jumanji.

That's another great example. A lot of CGI beasts. But it does not have the goose bump factor that JP did have.

Then you don't get me completely. I still find that scene - and the T-Rex scene - AMAZING and SUPERB. Until this day. It is EXACTLY those scenes that belong in a MUCH BETTER movie and I think a lot of people attribute the effect these scenes have to the ENTIRE movie.

But I tend to judge a movie as a whole, not as a collection of scenes. Those 2 scenes are part of the movie. They are good, so the elevate the quality of the film as a whole. Like the opening and closing battle in SPR elevate the whole movie for me.

Of course they elevate the movie. But in the end even the greatest scenes in the world cannot compensate for the lack of an interesting protagonist for example, or for a badly written screenplay.

The best scenes from E.T. or Fellowship Of The Ring really belong in those movies. Those movies are as good as their best scenes, or at least in harmony with them.

[Romão 2,274]

I don't think there has been a better vfx driven movie since Jurassic Park

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

No there have been plenty.

[Ollie 1,059]

I find it hard to come up with films who's VFX equal the T-Rex's first appearance in JP.

[Sandor 797]

I find it hard to come up with films who's VFX equal the T-Rex's first appearance in JP.

Nobody's disputing that. It's also a five star scene in itself.

[Datameister 2,041]

Oh man...I was hoping this thread would provide another page or two of fresh comedy gold when I woke up...but three unread pages? Fantastic! Keep it coming, gents.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I find it hard to come up with films who's VFX equal the T-Rex's first appearance in JP.

Nobody's disputing that. It's also a five star scene in itself.

Spielberg knows how to build suspense. that goat was a brilliant idea, and the trembling water.

[Sandor 797]

I find it hard to come up with films who's VFX equal the T-Rex's first appearance in JP.

Nobody's disputing that. It's also a five star scene in itself.

Spielberg knows how to build suspense. that goat was a brilliant idea, and the trembling water.

I would even go so far by stating that the entire legacy of JP is build upon that particular, brilliant scene (and the Journey To The Island scene.)

[Romão 2,274]

The whole last 20 minutes or so, with the Raptors scene in the kitchen, the T-Rex rescue and the epilogue are still quite stunning.

[Thor 7,490]

You have just romanticized JP. You have made yourself believe it's better than it really is, probably because at times the movie REMINDS us of the really great movie it could have been. Many SW fans do this with the prequels as well. Certain scenes from the prequels give a glimpse of the glorious trilogy it COULD have been and they choose to ignore the crap. I will probably be crucified for this rhetoric again, but I feel it's very close to the truth.

Actually, in the case of the prequels, I would agree with you (I actually like them, but it's so much more a phenomenon than JP ever was so the nostalgia argument has some merit). But not with JP. So let's just agree on the excellence of the score, even though we live on different planets in terms of our assessment of the film.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Another example of Spielberg's skill in direction tight action and suspense sequences.

[Ollie 1,059]

Oh man...I was hoping this thread would provide another page or two of fresh comedy gold when I woke up...but three unread pages? Fantastic! Keep it coming, gents.

That's one of the reasons why I haven't been responding that much.

Fun reading.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

I don't think there has been a better vfx driven movie since Jurassic Park

That's just asinine. But what do I know? I just have a stuffed up head.

*cough* The Matrix *cough* *hack* *sneeze* Apollo 13 *cough* *cough* *hack* Just about everything by Pixar, but specifically 3 or 4 of their films *cough* *sniffle* LoTR Trilogy *cough* *hack*

[Ollie 1,059]

Some of those film have bad CGI.

[Romão 2,274]

Well, I wasn't really considering Pixar movies, since I don't really consider them to be VFX movies. As for all the other examples you gave, I consider them all to be inferior movies to Jurassic Park, but that's like...my opionion, man

[Quintus 5,399]

Oh man...I was hoping this thread would provide another page or two of fresh comedy gold when I woke up...but three unread pages? Fantastic! Keep it coming, gents.

I retired from the thread. It'd gotten stale and boring, the comedy long dried up

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yeah I consider "cartoon" type CGI to be a very different genre then special effects type CGI.

[Ollie 1,059]

At least it brought some excitement and a change of pace from the regular tedious repetitive discussions.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Then leave!

[Sandor 797]

At least it brought some excitement and a change of pace from the regular tedious repetitive discussions.

Thanks Mark. I'll take that as a compliment.

[Ollie 1,059]

Then leave!

That's crossed my mind several times.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Master Olivarez, you can't die!

[Ollie 1,059]

At least it brought some excitement and a change of pace from the regular tedious repetitive discussions.

Thanks Mark. I'll take that as a compliment.

As I said earlier, you do have a legitimate point and your argument is valid.

[Sandor 797]

At least it brought some excitement and a change of pace from the regular tedious repetitive discussions.

Thanks Mark. I'll take that as a compliment.

As I said earlier, you do have a legitimate point and your argument is valid.

Well thanks again then.

[Quintus 5,399]

You're thanking someone for agreeing with you?

Maybe there's still some comedy to be reamed out of this thread after all...

[soundwave 0]

The whole last 20 minutes or so, with the Raptors scene in the kitchen, the T-Rex rescue and the epilogue are still quite stunning.

The whole film is built on great suspense scenes. Not only the T-Rex intro, the raptors in the kitchen, the T-Rex rescue, but there's also the fence climbing scene where the characters aren't aware of the suspense, but we are. Also, when Ellie rushes to get into the compound, and then when she find's Mace Windu's arm buried in the compound which had some how made it from Coruscant to Isla Nublar. What about the scene at the beginning of the film when Grant is trying to scare the kid. I mean, I don't know about anyone else, but I wasn't sure if he was going to slit the kid's stomach open or not with that raptor claw. That's Spielberg building suspense at it's best.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

What about the scene at the beginning of the film when Grant is trying to scare the kid. I mean, I don't know about anyone else, but I wasn't sure if he was going to slit the kid's stomach open or not with that raptor claw. That's Spielberg building suspense at it's best.

Hmm...you saw Jurassic Park when you were 7?

[Sandor 797]

You're thanking someone for agreeing with you?

Maybe there's still some comedy to be reamed out of this thread after all...

I'm certainly not thanking someone who's only response was "you're full of bullshit" when things got rough...

[Quintus 5,399]

Heh, Jurassic Park is just starting on telly now. Think I'll watch it, it's been a couple of years.

Dodgson! We've got Dodgson here!

[Sandor 797]

What about the scene at the beginning of the film when Grant is trying to scare the kid. I mean, I don't know about anyone else, but I wasn't sure if he was going to slit the kid's stomach open or not with that raptor claw. That's Spielberg building suspense at it's best.

Hmm...you saw Jurassic Park when you were 7?

LOL Hilarious..!

[Ollie 1,059]

You're thanking someone for agreeing with you?

Maybe there's still some comedy to be reamed out of this thread after all...

I didn't say I agreed with him. But he does have a valid point. As I said one could make the argument Jaws and Star Wars where just as responsible. Then again the dumbed down Bay / Bruckheimer style also can be considered a culprit.

You don't have to agree with Roald but it doesn't mean he's completely wrong. You will find plenty outside of this board who look at JP as a less than spectacular film.

Personally I think it falls in between. It's not in the same category as Jaws, E.T., Raiders or CE3K but it's much better than people give it credit for. I saw it 5 or 6 times within its first 2 weeks and all of them were some of the best movie going experiences I've had.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The way I see it is that characters in books are more fleshed out since there's more room for the exposition. Now I know that is not a valid excuse like you pointed out with Brody, although I'm not so sure there's much difference between Brody and Grant in terms of character development except in the fact that Brody had more people to interact with and a different set of problems (not only was he trying to save the people from being eaten but also protect his career from the bureaucrats that were pressuring him to dO the wrong thing where Grant was merely trying to survive with two kids in his care).

I disagree. Brody's arc is far more interesting because it actually has relevance to the rest of the film, and it's monster.

Brody is 1: A fish out of water throughout the whole film. In Amity he's seen as an outsider, therefore his concerns about the shark are not taken seriously until it is too late. On the Orca he is a fish out of water because unlike Hooper and Quint, who both have extensive experience (albeit very different) with sharks and boats he has none. Making him the least usefull of the three (love the way he's left out of the scar comparison)

2: Brody has a phobia about water. Which is a very real fear and makes his action in the film al the more brave.

I find that a lot more interesting in meaningful then Grant not liking kids because they smell funny.

[Datameister 2,041]

Also, when Ellie rushes to get into the compound, and then when she find's Mace Windu's arm buried in the compound which had some how made it from Coruscant to Isla Nublar.

I actually laughed aloud at that. I'm a dork.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yes.

[Datameister 2,041]

I dunno, something about the image of Samuel L.'s arm getting chopped off by a lightsaber and falling for an eternity past mile-high steel skyscrapers until it finally lands on the shoulder of a woman in utility shed in the middle of a rainforest on a tropical island is rather amusing so me.

[Quintus 5,399]

To be fair Mark, I sort of realised what you meant. I was referring more to Roald's ever-so-grateful tone when thanking you for 'validating' his original post. I found it amusing.

I agree with you actually on JP's placement in Spielberg's canon, but I've already covered that earlier.

Another thing I've touched upon numerous times is the reasons behind the stern defence of the movie by quite a few participants in the debate: disagreeing with each other is one thing and absolutely fine, of course. But Roald caused problems for himself when he brought his own subjective opinions regarding elements of the movie into his opening post. He undermined his outlining points completely by doing so. The fact that he was genuinely surprised by the considerable reprisal says a lot about him, I think.

I wouldn't ever expect anybody to take my points seriously and then go on to converse on the matter, if beforehand I'd just slagged the material off. Because right away my agenda would be obvious, and frankly, a waste of everybody's time.

But that's just me.

[Sandor 797]

To be fair Mark, I sort of realised what you meant. I was referring more to Roald's ever-so-grateful tone when thanking you for 'validating' his original post. I found it amusing.

I agree with you actually on JP placement in Spielberg's canon, but I've already covered that earlier.

Another thing I've touched upon numerous times is the reasons behind the stern defence of the movie by quite a few participants in the debate: disagreeing with each other is one thing and absolutely fine, of course. But Roald caused problems for himself when he brought his own subjective opinions regarding elements of the movie into his opening post. He undermined his outlining points completely by doing so. The fact that he was genuinely surprised by the considerable reprisal says a lot about him, I think.

I wouldn't ever expect anybody to take my points seriously and then go on to converse on the matter, if beforehand I'd just slagged the material off. Because right away my agenda would be obvious, and frankly, a waste of time.

But that's just me.

Yeah that's just you. And you know what I've come to realise: when it comes to JP YOU are the one full of bullshit. Sorry and Roald out.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Geez Lee. way to go!

If we keep this up I'll be the only Dutchy left.....

[Luke Skywalker 1,794]

You have just romanticized JP. You have made yourself believe it's better than it really is

You can compare whatever you want. Just saying that Raiders is a perfect film.

Dont you see the irony?

BTTF, the goonies, and films like that are regarded as very good films by people around thrity. They are just fun and campy, but you wouldnt get academy award winning performances from them, or deep characters (just cliched ones)

You can add the SW OT there too. Come on since when has SW had deep characters...

They have romanticized them, but dont tell them that. You just have to agre with them when they pick on the next generation's romanticized film.

[Richard Penna 3,679]

What Luke said.

I'm watching JP on TV right now; specifically the lunch scene with Malcolm's little speech, and these are not 'boring' characters.

The dialogue style, like TLW is very natural and certainly not the catchphrase-every-5-second style you get with most blockbusters. It has a slower, more relaxed pace and I like it because of that.

I'm thinking that this style of filmmaking isn't to Roald's tastes, and that the initial awe of the dinosaurs is all that attracted you to this film. That's worn off, so you just consider it a bad film now.

Yeah that's just you. And you know what I've come to realise: when it comes to JP YOU are the one full of bullshit. Sorry and Roald out.

Keep talking to yourself Roald. Makes more sense.

[Sandor 797]

You have just romanticized JP. You have made yourself believe it's better than it really is

You can compare whatever you want. Just saying that Raiders is a perfect film.

Dont you see the irony?

BTTF, the goonies, and films like that are regarded as very good films by people around thrity. They are just fun and campy, but you wouldnt get academy award winning performances from them, or deep characters (just cliched ones)

You can add the SW OT there too. Come on since when has SW had deep characters...

They have romanticized them, but dont tell them that. You just have to agre with them when they pick on the next generation's romanticized film.

Uhm, The Goonies doesn't deserve to be mentioned in this thread..!

[Quintus 5,399]

To be fair Mark, I sort of realised what you meant. I was referring more to Roald's ever-so-grateful tone when thanking you for 'validating' his original post. I found it amusing.

I agree with you actually on JP placement in Spielberg's canon, but I've already covered that earlier.

Another thing I've touched upon numerous times is the reasons behind the stern defence of the movie by quite a few participants in the debate: disagreeing with each other is one thing and absolutely fine, of course. But Roald caused problems for himself when he brought his own subjective opinions regarding elements of the movie into his opening post. He undermined his outlining points completely by doing so. The fact that he was genuinely surprised by the considerable reprisal says a lot about him, I think.

I wouldn't ever expect anybody to take my points seriously and then go on to converse on the matter, if beforehand I'd just slagged the material off. Because right away my agenda would be obvious, and frankly, a waste of time.

But that's just me.

Yeah that's just you. And you know what I've come to realise: when it comes to JP YOU are the one full of bullshit. Sorry and Roald out.

AAAAA HAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAA!

Fuckin' love it!

[Sandor 797]

What Luke said.

I'm watching JP on TV right now; specifically the lunch scene with Malcolm's little speech, and these are not 'boring' characters.

The dialogue style, like TLW is very natural and certainly not the catchphrase-every-5-second style you get with most blockbusters. It has a slower, more relaxed pace and I like it because of that.

I'm thinking that this style of filmmaking isn't to Roald's tastes, and that the initial awe of the dinosaurs is all that attracted you to this film. That's worn off, so you just consider it a bad film now.

Did you even read my posts...?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

So people are bashing Roald for starting a discussion that covers 8 pages?

Strange.

Did you even read my posts...?

They don't.

[Sandor 797]

To be fair Mark, I sort of realised what you meant. I was referring more to Roald's ever-so-grateful tone when thanking you for 'validating' his original post. I found it amusing.

I agree with you actually on JP placement in Spielberg's canon, but I've already covered that earlier.

Another thing I've touched upon numerous times is the reasons behind the stern defence of the movie by quite a few participants in the debate: disagreeing with each other is one thing and absolutely fine, of course. But Roald caused problems for himself when he brought his own subjective opinions regarding elements of the movie into his opening post. He undermined his outlining points completely by doing so. The fact that he was genuinely surprised by the considerable reprisal says a lot about him, I think.

I wouldn't ever expect anybody to take my points seriously and then go on to converse on the matter, if beforehand I'd just slagged the material off. Because right away my agenda would be obvious, and frankly, a waste of time.

But that's just me.

Yeah that's just you. And you know what I've come to realise: when it comes to JP YOU are the one full of bullshit. Sorry and Roald out.

AAAAA HAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAA!

Fuckin' love it!

You know it too, don't you dino lover..?

[Luke Skywalker 1,794]

Did you even read my posts...?

They don't.

neither does he, it seems.