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First War Horse teaser trailer includes Williams score


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Back to Tintin and War Horse,

How many themes each score will have? Did the newer recorded Tintin parts replace old parts or did Williams originally just record 75% of the score? Does the Tintin score include songs and/or substantial source music?

In an article it was mentioned that a song from the War Horse stage play was included in the film. Can you elaborate on that FilmComposer518? Was there a Williams arranged vocal recording of the song and does the stageplay melody also appear in orchestral form in the score?

And can you tell more about The Main Theme From TinTin..? To what Williams piece is it best comparable? How would you describe the melody? I know you said it isn't quite on a Star Wars or Indiana Jones level. But how did feel initially about Hedwig's Theme? I must admit that Hedwig's Theme really had to grow on me and now I consider it a modern classic. Could TinTin's Main Theme become like that?

You said that the Celtic Theme near the end of the trailer is only one bar of a lengthier theme. But what we hear in the trailer, is that how the theme starts, or is it part of the middle..?

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Oh goodie, I hope we have another "For Always" on our hands!

;)

Hey I used it at our my wedding.

I think it's BY FAR Williams most successful song. My wife is very fond of it too. ;)

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Didn't you do your own recording of it as well?

Nope. That wasn't me.

Hmmm...you were never that fond of it originally!

Scared of the wife eh....

Nah, I kinda always liked it I think...

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You know the more I think about the trailer....

The more I realize most of what I found really cool looking...are just aped shots from other movies. From Saving Private Ryan to Hidalgo.

Music is still great.

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Don't we just push the guy a bit too far at this point? He might not want to reveal all that much. I'm fine with what he said so far.

Karol

Seriously. Tell me this, and this, what about this?! TELL ME EVERY LITTLE GODDAMN THING YOU KNOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He did bring it upon himself though, but I'm already done with thread, nothing but questions and fanboy love.

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I don't necessarily agree with this view that recent JW action cues have become less interesting. Stuff like T-Rex Rescue, Belly of the Steel Beast, The Hunt, Escape from Naboo, Anakin Defeats Sebulba, Everybody Runs! or General Grievous are some of the best action music he has ever written. I actually greatly admire action tracks that don't require an underlying melody that's constantly repeated to be enjoyable. T-Rex Rescue is a great example of this. The action cues in The Phantom Menace are so stunning, so intricate, that some of his older stuff actually sounds rudimentary in comparision.

Yes. I completely agree.

These guys don't seem to realize that modern day Williams is much much more skilful and a better composer than the Williams of the 70s or even 80s.

I think it's funny that people consider cues like "T Rex Rescue", "The Hunt", "Belly Of The Steel Beast" and others "modern day Williams".

In reality, these scores are already 10, 15 years old as well, and can't be compared to 2011 as well.

Modern day Williams is Kingdom Of The Crystal Skull.

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Stylistically, "T-Rex Rescue" is waaay closer to modern Williams than the older Williams. I'd say Jurassic Park is the beginning of modern Williams, although some cues (ie "Journey to the Island") still sound like old Williams.

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Didn't AOTC start this action cue pattern that so many people hate? Which is what I think of as "modern Williams".

Karol

No. The action music from TLW is full is this type of writing.

Stylistically, "T-Rex Rescue" is waaay closer to modern Williams than the older Williams. I'd say Jurassic Park is the beginning of modern Williams, although some cues (ie "Journey to the Island") still sound like old Williams.

Jurassic Park is a old-fashioned "thematic" Williams scores with a few forays into what would become his modern writing style.

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And KOTCS just sounds a lot more aimless in its action setpieces than anything in Last Crusade, or indeed Jurassic Park or Lost World.

OK then. Is T-Rex Rescue really a coherent piece? It seems to be stitched from several 50 second cues that have nothing to do with each other. Don't get me wrong, I like it. But it is far from what I would call perfect flowing action setpiece. I mean, seriously.

Karol

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and it is 14 years old.

counts as modern william or not???

No, not for me.

John Williams has been writing in this type of style for a long time. Empire Of The Sun has a cue that sounds like a prototype of modern rhythmic JW action scoring. But usually the main body of the score was build on a strong thematic foundation.

The Lost World really is the score that ushered in the modern Williams era. Very little in the way of long-lined "hummable" themes. A strong preference for atmospheric music and action music which emphasizes the rhythm rather then the melody.

Back in 1997 this was quite a shocking Williams score, especially because it was a sequel to the thematically memorable Jurassic Park.

OK then. Is T-Rex Rescue really a coherent piece? It seems to be stitched from several 50 second cues that have nothing to do with each other. Don't get me wrong, I like it. But it is far from what I would call perfect flowing action setpiece. I mean, seriously.

Karol

Maybe, but it's cohesive enough. The prominence of the raptor motif throughout the cue helps bind it

shame on you.

Personally, Desert chase is rather meh, compared to Jungle chase.

yeah burn me, i dont care.

Jungle Chase to me lacks a center, and lacks heart. It's much ado about nothing. Lot of bells and whistles.

Desert Chase is wonderfully streamlined and economic, not a wasted note! Not a redundant bit of orchestration,

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John Williams still writes a bunch of very hummable and long lined themes in almost every score he writes. Seven Years in Tibet, Amistad, Rosewood, Angela's Ashes, Memoirs of a Geisha, among others, all have at least 3 major themes that appear constantly. How many themes were there in AI, Harry Potter, The Phantom Menace?

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Stylistically, "T-Rex Rescue" is waaay closer to modern Williams than the older Williams. I'd say Jurassic Park is the beginning of modern Williams, although some cues (ie "Journey to the Island") still sound like old Williams.

Jurassic Park is a old-fashioned "thematic" Williams scores with a few forays into what would become his modern writing style.

Most modern William scores have themes. In fact, extensive use of these themes are one of the qualities of a modern Williams score. If Raiders were scored today, the Basket Game would rely more on Indy's Theme and Marion's Theme and less on ideas unique to the setpiece. Both valid approaches, just different.

Jurassic Park fits this bill. There are new ideas in each action cue, but they also rely heavily on preexisting themes. "T-Rex Rescue" is a perfect example, as it relies almost entirely on the 4 note theme for the dinosaurs.

I'd say JP is more modern than old. The motif in "High Wire Stunts" sounds like the stressful strings of Williams 2000s output (CMIYC, RotS, AotC, Minority Report, etc.). The action setpieces are mostly reliant on preexisting themes. "Journey" and "My Friend the Brachiosaurus" and "Theme from JP" sound like the middle ground between the old and new, but the rest sounds pretty new.

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But the emphasis on "hummable" themes are certainly a lot less. And his actionmusic focuses more on rhythm.

See Merkel's post...all those listed, and more, are completely "hummable." Action music is less hummable I'll agree, but I don't think that makes it worse. Just different.

Anyways, my point was the JP is more modern than old. It has hummable themes, which are not unique to any period of John Williams, less hummable action music that focuses on rhythmn, which is unique to his modern period, and other stylistic traits unique to his modern period.

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Action music is less hummable I'll agree, but I don't think that makes it worse. Just different.

I disagree.

I love rhythmic action music. But at times the way Williams does it it just becomes incoherent and chaotic.

I prefer the way Goldsmith did it. Were each layer or orchestration and rhythm complimented each other, instead of working against the grain.

Also, it has to do with personal preference. I did not fall in love with John William's music because of his advanced orchestration techniques. They were there in the 70, 80 and early 90's, but they were more subject to the thematic development. In a lot of modern JW scores the fancy orchestration tends to overpower the melody.

The fact that big, sweeping themes are no longer popular in Hollywood also has something to do with it, of course

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One can prefer one style or the other of action scoring, but I just can't agree with the assessment that JW's music was more thematically-prone in the past. I really don't think that's the case

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Present your evidence!

All the scores I listed above, and many more that I didn't. There's hardly a track in Angela's Ashes, Seven Years in Tibet, AI or Harry Potter that his not thematic. And in the last decade or so, he even presents his major themes in wonderful concert suites that normally open his albums. And concerning set pieces, TPM, for example, is full of them. Eeven in Indy4, that so many of you don't appreciate, you have at least 3 major action sequences with its own thematic micro world.

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Not really. In essence A Journey Through Academe is at much a setpiece as The Asteroid Field. But for one i play the whole piece in my head, for the other I cannot.

Yeah but Whirl seems to be connected to other stuff in the score, like The Snake Pit or Adventures of Mutt (which kind of makes sense for they are all driven by the same character). Whereas The Asteroid Field is just its own thing and you never hear anything else that sounds like that.

Karol

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Not really. In essence A Journey Through Academe is at much a setpiece as The Asteroid Field. But for one i play the whole piece in my head, for the other I cannot.

Plus when I listen to one of those pieces, I feel I should also be hearing slide whistles, boings, beeps and car horns throughout the cue as well.

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How about Warhorse?

I'm going to wait until we get more cue samples. The piece in the trailer is good but I want to hear more before I even consider this to be in Williams' top 10.

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Not really. In essence A Journey Through Academe is at much a setpiece as The Asteroid Field. But for one i play the whole piece in my head, for the other I cannot.

Plus when I listen to one of those pieces, I feel I should also be hearing slide whistles, boings, beeps and car horns throughout the cue as well.

The brass theme in that cue is stunning.

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No that's not what I mean. I'm talking about the scherzo itself.

Karol

But The Asteroid Field is more then just the scherzo. In the film at least.

How about Warhorse?

I'm going to wait until we get more cue samples. The piece in the trailer is good but I want to hear more before I even consider this to be in Williams' top 10.

Yes, what if that is the best bit of the whole score? ;)

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No that's not what I mean. I'm talking about the scherzo itself.

Karol

But The Asteroid Field is more then just the scherzo. In the film at least.

Let's try again:

Yes, there are themes in that piece in the film. But the centerpiece of this is this scherzo which sounds like nothing else in the score. Same with Sail Barge Assault (Alternate). Or Forest Battle. They use themes, sure, but they are also driven by their own unique logic.

Now in KOTCS Williams also gives action setpieces their own mini-motifs, but they seem more connected to each other (through Mutt character). They don't necessarily state his theme (which appears only in the Jungle chase), but they something in common in terms of structure. Maybe not counting Ants!, which is the most distinctive action piece (altough similar to General Grevious). And it is my favourite piece from the score.

Karol

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How about Warhorse?

I'm going to wait until we get more cue samples. The piece in the trailer is good but I want to hear more before I even consider this to be in Williams' top 10.

He's gonna get nominated, that's for sure. This year has sucked for scores, so far. I just hope he made Tintin as bad as the rest so the vote doesn't get split.

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and it is 14 years old.

counts as modern william or not???

No, not for me.

John Williams has been writing in this type of style for a long time. Empire Of The Sun has a cue that sounds like a prototype of modern rhythmic JW action scoring. But usually the main body of the score was build on a strong thematic foundation.

The Lost World really is the score that ushered in the modern Williams era. Very little in the way of long-lined "hummable" themes. A strong preference for atmospheric music and action music which emphasizes the rhythm rather then the melody.

Back in 1997 this was quite a shocking Williams score, especially because it was a sequel to the thematically memorable Jurassic Park.

????? So is TLW modern Williams or not? That is the film that is 14 years old ALREADY...

Not really. In essence A Journey Through Academe is at much a setpiece as The Asteroid Field. But for one i play the whole piece in my head, for the other I cannot.

Plus when I listen to one of those pieces, I feel I should also be hearing slide whistles, boings, beeps and car horns throughout the cue as well.

yeah mickey mousing...

like The basket chase, or practically the whole Last crusade.

Which is one of their charms...

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So what you are saying is that John Williams is trying to mimic Jerry Goldsmith's unified scoring style, but essentially failing at it?

In KOTCS? Kind of, yeah.

But "failing at it" part is quite relative.

Karol

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He's gonna get nominated, that's for sure. This year has sucked for scores, so far. I just hope he made Tintin as bad as the rest so the vote doesn't get split.

No this year has been the same as the past 10 years, except John Williams has 2 scores coming out. Once again my only current purchases have been from Michael Giacchino.

Thankfully Giacchino and Silvestri have salvaged the first part.

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