How do you deal with people who know JW's music well and don't like him?

[Josh500 1,615]

I think it's a common disease among film score fans (and maybe "nerds" in general) that they feel personally insulted by people who don't share their taste in things.

I don't feel insulted, but I am left repeatedly incredulous when people just don't seem to get listening to film scores or orchestral music in general. "You listen to this? Is this the music that plays in the movie? Where are the words?"

Yeah, the real problem is not that they don't share the same taste in music as you, but rather that they look at you as if you were the weirdest person they've ever met, like if you had some kind of disease.

"You listen to film scores ? Are you sure you're OK ? Do you want to see a doctor or someone else ? Do you want my Lady Gaga CD collection ?"

Dickheads!

These are mostly young people, people who only listen to rock/pop music. Yeah, I hate them.

What's also bad is when they give you that indulgent, pitying grin.

[Jilal 569]

Hmm... thk thk thk...

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

"people who know JW's music well and don't like him."

I don't meet people like that.

[Melange 446]

How do you deal with people who know JW's music well and don't like him?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-t15LG7czw

[MSM 126]

I seldomly meet someone who knows more JW scores than the standard ones. Or they just know he scored a movie. What does frustrate me is when people pretend to, or actually really think they know him well while they obviously don't.

No, there are people like that, and these are mostly older people, say in their 40s and 50s. Well-educated, intelligent. These are folks who have more than a casual interest in movies/movie music. And some of these folks unabashedly say things like, "I actually dislike JW." Or "I can't stand JW."

Ok. Well I never met anyone like that.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

What ticks me off is the "John Williams just keeps rewriting the same piece of music over and over" line, because that one I think is a true sign of somebody who has just scraped the surface of JW music, and doesn't really know what they're talking about.

There's this and there's the more ignorant "all his music sounds the same" crowd. There's a difference between finding similarities in his writing (which are there, of course) and saying Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Superman, etc. all sound the same. But I digress, these people are generally not fans of orchestral music or John Williams, just casual listeners who are familiar with the music and movies in some way.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

4. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion. I can't stand this awful new dub-step music which some of my friends are into. But I don't harp on about it, just as they don't go on about my interests. there's enough common overlap with other styles and genres that it doesn't really matter.

[crocodile 8,000]

I'm willing to discuss the matter and maybe try to present things from my perspective. If it doesn't work, I won't lose any sleep over it.

Karol

[Quintus 5,399]

I make mad, passionate love to them.

Sorry - what was the question again?

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I kill them with a harvester.

I like how you think.

[Hlao-roo 389]

If you really have an opinion on something, I think it is a shame not to at least try to convince others that your opinion is the correct one, in a reasonable, polite way. However, if you get to the point that you realize the other person is not going to be convinced, its best to just leave it alone.

Quite awhile ago, in the context of rating film scores, Ricard disputed the idea that favorite and best can be separate concepts. He suggested that those who make such a distinction may be guilty of undervaluing their own opinion. Semantics might beg to differ, but I nonetheless appreciate where Ricard is coming from.

Opinions are indeed personal and must be respected as the property of their respective owners. But they're not merely inanimate possessions; they're the pulse of how an individual looks out on the world and conceives of it. If we fail to engage with each other's opinions, and ignore how they jibe with or jostle our own, I wonder how much we're truly interacting with one other. I think that to embrace the notion that each other's opinions are untouchable and have no bearing on our own is to impoverish our discussions both here and elsewhere.

[crocodile 8,000]

I only voted for the 4th option out of courtesy, of course. And there was no "lobotomy" option.

Karol

[Josh500 1,615]

If you really have an opinion on something, I think it is a shame not to at least try to convince others that your opinion is the correct one, in a reasonable, polite way. However, if you get to the point that you realize the other person is not going to be convinced, its best to just leave it alone.

Quite awhile ago, in the context of rating film scores, Ricard disputed the idea that favorite and best can be separate concepts. He suggested that those who make such a distinction may be guilty of undervaluing their own opinion. Semantics might beg to differ, but I nonetheless appreciate where Ricard is coming from.

Opinions are indeed personal and must be respected as the property of their respective owners. But they're not merely inanimate possessions; they're the pulse of how an individual looks out on the world and conceives it. If we fail to engage with each other's opinions and ignore how they jibe with or jostle our own, I wonder how much we're truly interacting with one other. I think that if we embrace the notion that each other's opinions are untouchable and have no bearing on our own, we're impoverishing our discussions both here and elsewhere.

Like I said, I do respect everyone's opinions if they really mean them, but some things just make you roll your eyes and question the other person's sanity. And some opinions just want to make you strangle them... I can't help it, and I guess that makes me human too.

[Faleel 5,345]

I hate the "His music is just a car crash until it finds a melody" crowd like this guy Wolfysnackrip666:

[Josh500 1,615]

Let me guess: you are starwarsfan786.

Anyway, why are you reading these stupid posts?

[gkgyver 1,645]

I hate the "His music is just a car crash until it finds a melody" crowd like this guy Wolfysnackrip666:

I hate to say it, but since 1999, I know where he's coming from.

[Wojo 2,453]

Yes, but like a car crash, I cannot look away.

[gkgyver 1,645]

"My god, xylophone AGAIN?"

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Every time Williams uses a xylophone, God kills a kitten.

[fommes 153]

This is basically a poll about the FSM board, right? The leitmotif approach is conservative and theme-with-variation approach is progressive thing, I assume? Yeah, I'm going to go with the contempt option then.

[Faleel 5,345]

Let me guess: you are starwarsfan786.

Anyway, why are you reading these stupid posts?

No, Starwarsfan786 is Alexander.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

This is basically a poll about the FSM board, right? The leitmotif approach is conservative and theme-with-variation approach is progressive thing, I assume?

The funny thing, is Williams uses theme and variations too. As did Goldsmith, vice versa.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

These are mostly young people, people who only listen to rock/pop music. Yeah, I hate them.

What's also bad is when they give you that indulgent, pitying grin.

I know that pitying grin all too well from my editor at work. She simply cannot wrap her head around my passion for film music (my other co-worker finds it rather interesting that I do, but she has more taste). Even our publisher, who's a huge film buff couldn't work me out - he even tried to convince me that film music loses something when taken away from the film because it's a collaborative process, whereas I argued there's a wealth to be gained from hearing different kinds of scores on their own.

So on Friday's extended lunch breaks, I like visiting the niche music stores in town and buying a pile of film score CDs and bringing them back to the office, where my editor always inquires on what I've bought, and presto; the daft questions and weird looks. I love annoying her.

[Incanus 5,714]

These are mostly young people, people who only listen to rock/pop music. Yeah, I hate them.

What's also bad is when they give you that indulgent, pitying grin.

I know that pitying grin all too well from my editor at work. She simply cannot wrap her head around my passion for film music (my other co-worker finds it rather interesting that I do, but she has more taste). Even our publisher, who's a huge film buff couldn't work me out - he even tried to convince me that film music loses something when taken away from the film because it's a collaborative process, whereas I argued there's a wealth to be gained from hearing different kinds of scores on their own.

So on Friday's extended lunch breaks, I like visiting the niche music stores in town and buying a pile of film score CDs and bringing them back to the office, where my editor always inquires on what I've bought, and presto; the daft questions and weird looks. I love annoying her.

Oh Drax you mischievous and incorrigible little imp. One day they will learn. One day.

[indy4 155]

This is basically a poll about the FSM board, right? The leitmotif approach is conservative and theme-with-variation approach is progressive thing, I assume?

What is the difference between these two approaches?

[Trent B 337]

These are mostly young people, people who only listen to rock/pop music. Yeah, I hate them.

What's also bad is when they give you that indulgent, pitying grin.

I know that pitying grin all too well from my editor at work. She simply cannot wrap her head around my passion for film music (my other co-worker finds it rather interesting that I do, but she has more taste). Even our publisher, who's a huge film buff couldn't work me out - he even tried to convince me that film music loses something when taken away from the film because it's a collaborative process, whereas I argued there's a wealth to be gained from hearing different kinds of scores on their own.

So on Friday's extended lunch breaks, I like visiting the niche music stores in town and buying a pile of film score CDs and bringing them back to the office, where my editor always inquires on what I've bought, and presto; the daft questions and weird looks. I love annoying her.

Gotta love those type of people, Drax.

[Quintus 5,399]

Expensive though, isn't it. It'd be far more afordable to just call her fatty.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Expensive though, isn't it. It'd be far more afordable to just call her fatty.

That'd hit too close to home for her.

[Josh500 1,615]

These are mostly young people, people who only listen to rock/pop music. Yeah, I hate them.

What's also bad is when they give you that indulgent, pitying grin.

I know that pitying grin all too well from my editor at work. She simply cannot wrap her head around my passion for film music (my other co-worker finds it rather interesting that I do, but she has more taste). Even our publisher, who's a huge film buff couldn't work me out - he even tried to convince me that film music loses something when taken away from the film because it's a collaborative process, whereas I argued there's a wealth to be gained from hearing different kinds of scores on their own.

So on Friday's extended lunch breaks, I like visiting the niche music stores in town and buying a pile of film score CDs and bringing them back to the office, where my editor always inquires on what I've bought, and presto; the daft questions and weird looks. I love annoying her.

You kidding me? Gotta say, you're acting like a character on a sitcom . . . The Big Bang Theory, perhaps. Hats off to you.

Every time Williams uses a xylophone, God kills a kitten.

I like xylophone.

[MissPadmé 17]

When I was younger, I would be very annoyed and feel insulted, whenever someone said something bad about something I really love (f.e. John Williams-music)

It really drove me mad...

but when I got older, I realized, that I defined myself to much through the things I am passionate for, so that when people insulted Johnny Williams, in reality I thought they insulted ME!

If nowadays someone comes up to me and tells me, that "Star Wars-music is crap!", it doesn't do anything to me. I think, I am just aware of the fact, that his life has taken him on a certain path, that lead him to this opinion.. but that is really non of my business

[Salacius 7]

I voted 1 - Plus I electrocute them until they see sense

[Nebulan 0]

First time I was pretty offended, it was a music major in college, accused him of stealing classical artists' work. I've since seen where they got that impression from but Williams isn't alone in that (I'm thinking mainly of Zimmer) and it doesn't bother me any more and I would probably fight for my point of view (which is unusual as I am a very non-confrontational type of person) but lately the only people I know how have issues with any of John William's work only have issues with specific piece like my roommate that can't stand the Raider's March because of bad experiences playing it back in high school band.

[Josh500 1,615]

First time I was pretty offended, it was a music major in college, accused him of stealing classical artists' work. I've since seen where they got that impression from but Williams isn't alone in that (I'm thinking mainly of Zimmer) and it doesn't bother me any more and I would probably fight for my point of view (which is unusual as I am a very non-confrontational type of person) but lately the only people I know how have issues with any of John William's work only have issues with specific piece like my roommate that can't stand the Raider's March because of bad experiences playing it back in high school band.

I don't think Williams ever stole anything. If that were true, every great artist would have been stealing from past masters, and not just composers, but writers, movie directors, painters, etc. That's only what ignorant people claim.

Many classical works have served as an inspiration to Williams, however. And that's no secret.

It really drove me mad...

but when I got older, I realized, that I defined myself to much through the things I am passionate for, so that when people insulted Johnny Williams, in reality I thought they insulted ME!

)

Actually I think that's how most people who are passionate about anything would feel. Imagine, a passioante coin collector. If you criticized his beloved collection, he would sure become upset, whether he shows it or not.

In a way, that's what makes us human. We shouldn't let our emotions get out of hand, though.

[crocodile 8,000]

The last time I had this kind of a conversation was last week actually. The person I talked to that his father has a degree with music as Williams and he could tell John has been doing nothing but stealing.

To which I replied: "Well then, I'm waiting for your father's original piece with great anticipation".

Karol

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

I shoot them in the face. Obviously.

Seriously though, who cares?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I shoot them in the face. Obviously.

Marc van der Vlis?

[Richard Penna 3,681]

I thought rather a lot of people didn't like him due to supposed classical plagiarism.

But the only 'defending' I've had to do is related to Zimmer.

[crocodile 8,000]

Ironically, many people who accuse Williams of plagiarism are very fond of Zimmer. On their opinion he's doing "something else than classical music rip-off". Heard that more than once.

Karol

[Salacius 7]

What the hell?? The man managed to create his own distinctive style .A few notes and you know it's instantly him.

How many composers have managed that to this incredible extent??

I have seen this discussion over and over again here which is fair enough but thing is, it's not possible

to start from scratch. You will like people, you will get influenced and if really talented and with luck

you will take their legacy and evolve it to the next level.

That's how music evolves.

It's the easiest thing in the world to be snobby about somebody's work. I don't know why people do that with Williams.

If you know his work really well that means that you admire what he does. And if you get to that point of being a fan

of his work then there is no way you will turn around and say 'he is just an average composer who is just stealing

other people's work.' No Way.

Which brings me to the conclusion that whoever uses this lame excuse to dismiss his works doesn't know much about his music at all.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

What the hell?? The man managed to create his own distinctive style .A few notes and you know it's instantly him.

How many composers have managed that to this incredible extent??

A lot, actually.

[Salacius 7]

What the hell?? The man managed to create his own distinctive style .A few notes and you know it's instantly him.

How many composers have managed that to this incredible extent??

A lot, actually.

I meant to say in the film music world. I think it's safe to say you can count them in one hand..

[archer1276 0]

Regarding Williams and plagiarism. I have only ever found pieces which have similar tones, or overall feel to classical pieces, but have never found a note-for-note or rhythm-for-rhythm section that would indicate plagiarism.

Horner on the other hand..... wow.

Today, for example, I was listening to Track 2 of CEOT3K "Navy Planes" (0:00-0:10) , and noticed a similarity in Key signature to his Amazing Stories "Mission" score, specifically from the Track entitled "Jonathan Begins to Draw" (0:44-0:59). When I say "similar", let's be clear, I don't mean "same", as in "identical". Where the 1st track (Navy Planes) has a distinct half-step interval progression during the cinematic reveal, the second track (Jonathan Begins...) has a more dynamic progression of ups and downs but a similar musical reveal, so I feel the musical undertones are similar in those specific sections only. Definitely not plagiarism!

First time I was pretty offended, it was a music major in college, accused him of stealing classical artists' work. I've since seen where they got that impression from but Williams isn't alone in that (I'm thinking mainly of Zimmer) and it doesn't bother me any more and I would probably fight for my point of view (which is unusual as I am a very non-confrontational type of person) but lately the only people I know how have issues with any of John William's work only have issues with specific piece like my roommate that can't stand the Raider's March because of bad experiences playing it back in high school band.

I agree with you, and I feel that if a composer feels he must plagiarize, its better to copy yourself than someone else's work. What say you?

[MSM 126]

I honestly think it's a contradictio in terminis.