Spielberg: "Indy IV was George Lucas' idea"

[Quintus 5,399]

I dunno, I always thought an immortal knight of the crusades was pretty far-fetched, not to mention an all-powerful ark of the covenant. But they worked, they were realistic - because the execution didn't take you for a mug.

[Incanus 5,714]

I kind of like Indy IV for its general feel but the execution falters in places. The opening of the film is still the best part of it, recapturing many Indiana Jones elements with better grace than the rest of the film. Even Ford seems to be at his best with classic Indy glint in his eye until they fly to South America .

I can buy the Crystal Skull as the McGuffin easily but the way they build the plot around it is not the most interesting one. You could have mined a lot of legend out of this particular artefact and even made the finale more plausible with a bit more thought.

The real trouble with KotCS for me apart from the time to time lazy plot was that the Russians simply weren't worthy adversaries to Indy at any point. There was none of that sense of "oh my god, Indy is going to be bruised and nearly killed, I wonder how he is going to survive this" in the movie as not a single time are we really shown what the baddies are capable of. Indy looks half bored with the Russians surrounding him with machine guns as if he knows he is going to be alright in the end.

Irina was completely wasted as a character, the psychic powers completely useless (why bring them up if there is no way of using them in the film), her sword waving an empty threat and she doesn't do anything in the film besides fight once with the sword and rest of the time shouts orders. I would have expected her to be a bit more hands on leader and exude a cold authority that would have been backed by, I don't know, a show of how she sacrifices her men for the cause or kills people without a second thought but no. She is left cold and hollow and with little to do.

And the final third of the film lacks a sense of drive and urgency, a real race to Akator and for the Skulls. I would have loved a kind of a race between Indy and the Russians through the legendary city (a location completely underused in the film), people dodging booby traps, solving riddles and having a real battle for Oxley and hence the Skull in the throne room. All these things feature in the film but oh so lazily done. I can't believe the Ugha warriors were in the film since they contribute nothing to it.

[publicist 4,643]

While i think the skull thingie may have worked on a syndicated INDY-series as one of 100 plots, i find it not nearly strong enough for a film many people waited for since 1989. I second Jason that i always found THE FATE OF ATLANTIS a great idea and all the underground machineries featured in the game would have been a field day for Spielberg.

[Incanus 5,714]

While i think the skull thingie may have worked on a syndicated INDY-series as one of 100 plots, i find it not nearly strong enough for a film many people waited for since 1989. I second Jason that i always found THE FATE OF ATLANTIS a great idea and all the underground machineries featured in the game would have been a field day for Spielberg.

I agree. I feel that funnily enough the Crystal Skull and Fate of Atlantis share some of the alien culture feel at places but Atlantis succeeds much better since the plot is tied to humanity and the advances of techology and hybris involved in that rather than beings from another planet/dimension. Plus for a game plot it is a stellar one, capturing the Indiana Jones feel just brilliantly, not sacrificing the story for the puzzles but building them around it.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Again, a decades old computer game? Really?

[Incanus 5,714]

Again, a decades old computer game? Really?

Yes the basic premise of the plot is an excellent one. I am not saying the game plot should be followed in all details but the basic story and idea are captivating and truly in the spirit of Indiana Jones. I know you are sceptical but do you even know the plot of the game?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I know no computergame has ever been turned into a decent movie.

[Incanus 5,714]

I know no computergame has ever been turned into a decent movie.

Well as I said the premise not the game itself would make a good material for a script.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Imagine the humiliation of using the plot of an old game for your next film?

[Incanus 5,714]

Imagine the humiliation of using the plot of an old game for your next film?

Compared to letting Lucas and Koepp write one based on a bad story?

[Morn 8]

Indiana 4 was a good movie, at least as good as Temple of Doom and the Last Crusade.

Unlike the Star Wars prequels we actually got a decent movie. So this is the first thing George Lucas has done right in 20 years, yay!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Compared to letting Lucas and Koepp write one based on a bad story?

The story is fine.

[publicist 4,643]

If 'story' means basic ingredients like 'russians', 'aliens' and 'Indiana Jones' this may well be, the gutless thing that came out of the probably 500st rewrite on Lucas'/Spielberg's request isn't worth the years of hard work they put into it.

[Jay 37,336]

I kind of like Indy IV for its general feel but the execution falters in places. The opening of the film is still the best part of it, recapturing many Indiana Jones elements with better grace than the rest of the film. Even Ford seems to be at his best with classic Indy glint in his eye until they fly to South America .

I can buy the Crystal Skull as the McGuffin easily but the way they build the plot around it is not the most interesting one. You could have mined a lot of legend out of this particular artefact and even made the finale more plausible with a bit more thought.

The real trouble with KotCS for me apart from the time to time lazy plot was that the Russians simply weren't worthy adversaries to Indy at any point. There was none of that sense of "oh my god, Indy is going to be bruised and nearly killed, I wonder how he is going to survive this" in the movie as not a single time are we really shown what the baddies are capable of. Indy looks half bored with the Russians surrounding him with machine guns as if he knows he is going to be alright in the end.

Irina was completely wasted as a character, the psychic powers completely useless (why bring them up if there is no way of using them in the film), her sword waving an empty threat and she doesn't do anything in the film besides fight once with the sword and rest of the time shouts orders. I would have expected her to be a bit more hands on leader and exude a cold authority that would have been backed by, I don't know, a show of how she sacrifices her men for the cause or kills people without a second thought but no. She is left cold and hollow and with little to do.

And the final third of the film lacks a sense of drive and urgency, a real race to Akator and for the Skulls. I would have loved a kind of a race between Indy and the Russians through the legendary city (a location completely underused in the film), people dodging booby traps, solving riddles and having a real battle for Oxley and hence the Skull in the throne room. All these things feature in the film but oh so lazily done. I can't believe the Ugha warriors were in the film since they contribute nothing to it.

Well said Mikko!

[Jeff 10]

I have to kind of agree with almost everything everyone has to say about KOTCS (both positive and negative). But at the same time I feel like I'm constantly defending it in my head against any criticisms. So I guess I just like Indiana Jones so much I can't stand to see him or the films he features in trashed.

However, in an attempt to put those reservations aside, my honest opinion is, I think, this:

KOTCS is enjoyable, watchable, and I have no major complaints with 95% of the movie. It's not as mysterious and well-crafted as Raiders and it's not as inventive as TOD. I suppose it compares most closely in form with TLC (my favorite of the four), but if KOTCS is a failure, it is because of its inferior execution of these similarities:

1) Father-son reconciliation - The Harrison Ford/Sean Connery relationship cannot be beat. If it could be approached, Shia LaBeouf was not the one to do it. I will admit that LaBeouf is a talented actor, but he annoys the crap out of me. His style of acting worked best in Even Stevens, which is his greatest role to date. Enough said.

2) The mystic, fable-like ending - Everyone learns a valuable lesson about power and ambition at the end of both films, but TLC ended with a reverent, reflective admission of the characters' unpreparedness for such power. KOTCS ended with this strange, abrupt, incomplete feeling that made the film unsatisfying. Normally, the cheesy wedding ending would have been a bad call, but in this case it was necessary to erase the bewilderment caused by the alien encounter. I like the idea of a 50s/cold war/alien Indiana Jones flick, but in practice it is extremely difficult to pull off.

There's plenty more to say on this topic, but that's the meat of it.

[Dole 17]

Before this article, everyone despised the nuke scene. After this article, "Oh it was Spielberg's idea? It's genius! Love it, so funny and fits right in with everything else!!"

Only at JWFan.

I was thinking exactly the same thing. The fridge scene is just as dumb as most of the rest of the film. In the first three movies Indy's escapades, improbable and fantastic as they were, were still well grounded in the realm of the possible. To expect anyone (even Indy) to have survived being blasted that high into the air in a fridge is pushing it too far. Raiders works so well because for all his bravado and posturing, Indy is still very obviously presented as a mortal man.

It's no less realistic than Indy jumping off an airplane with an inflatable lifeboat and falling off thousand-foot cliffs. Or Indy falling off a cliff while on a tank that explodes upon impact.

Actually, I think a couple of years ago on a film-themed episode of Mythbusters they did the "falling out of a plane on an inflated liferaft" thing from TOD thinking it would be easy to prove no one could survive such a ridiculous stunt. To their surprise, the dummies inside the raft lived through the experience.

Ok I'm getting tired of people quoting Mythbusters, that gold standard of science *sarcasm*. In any case, iirc the temple of doom raft myth was actually busted.

EDIT: Couldn't quite find the video, but here's the text recap from Annotated Mythbusters

Drop 1

For the first drop they rigged Buster in center of the raft, which turned out to be a bad job. The rigging gave way after they had lifted the raft 400 ft up, ejecting Buster from the raft. Buster was completely destroyed and Adam reacted in shock to the carnage: "Buster is a pile of scrap."

Drop 2

They improved the rigging in the raft by using big hauling straps instead. Somehow they managed to resurrect Buster. They must have had a lot of spare parts on hand because even the instruments were pretty trashed from the first mishap.

The raft flipped over and floated in like a parachute at 22mph. Parachutists usually land at about 14mph. This might have been fine for Buster, except he was ejected when the raft flipped over and landed at 154 MPH.

Drop 3

For the third drop they decided to re-rig the raft to be used as a parachute to keep Buster from falling separately. They managed to resurrect Buster resurrected yet again, though he's headless and looking pretty bad for the wear.

The parachute safely worked as a parachute, but the rate of descent was too fast. Initially they thought Buster was ok, but once they got close they saw that Buster's limbs were pretty wrecked. The chest sensors showed that he might have lived (50g shock watch was broken, but 75 and 100 were not), however, even though Buster might have lived, the notion that someone could have lept out and rigged the parachute-like harness is very unlikely. They had already demonstrated the problems with the Indiana-Jones-style descent, so mythbusted.

(Life raft) busted

Sorry. I guess I remembered it wrong. Thanks for correcting me.

[tharpdevenport 4]

"What people really jumped at was Indy climbing into a refrigerator and getting blown into the sky by an atom-bomb blast. Blame me. Don't blame George. That was my silly idea. People stopped saying "jump the shark". They now say, "nuked the fridge". I'm proud of that. I'm glad I was able to bring that into popular culture."

So, basically, what he's saying is:

"I took what was once a cultural filmatic icon with classic tales (not so much the second installment) and turned the lead into a second rate characature, and joke. I'm proud of it!"

I'm reminded of what one of the artists on "Star Trek: Generations"/TNG said in the art book about his demo sketches of new ships when one of the head people pointed out it looked liek a chicken, (paraphrasing from memory): "Sometimes you just have to have somebody to tell you when it looks like a chicken."

Lucas: IT'S A FUCKING CHICKEN

[Morn 8]

"What people really jumped at was Indy climbing into a refrigerator and getting blown into the sky by an atom-bomb blast. Blame me. Don't blame George. That was my silly idea. People stopped saying "jump the shark". They now say, "nuked the fridge". I'm proud of that. I'm glad I was able to bring that into popular culture."

So, basically, what he's saying is:

"I took what was once a cultural filmatic icon with classic tales (not so much the second installment) and turned the lead into a second rate characature, and joke. I'm proud of it!"

Umm, Indiana Jones was never meant to be a serious movie. It's an action flick with comedy and adventure, it was always about jokes and characature. There is nothing about the nuke scene that doesn't fit within the essence of Indiana Jones. It is no more ridiculous than a mysterious ark that melts people or a thousand year old crusader who can't cross a line or riding a submarine like a horse in a journey to another continent.