How does John Williams's "The Adventures of Tintin" fare compared to his recent blockbuster scores?

[nightscape94 965]

I prefer Battle of the Heroes in action mode during the saber battle. When it's slowed down as presented in the concert arrangement, then it doesn't sound as strong as Duel of Fates.

[JamieC 13]

I've got a JW soundtrack here called Star Wars, I think it is. Would that be right ? Is that the same John Williams that we're all talking about here ?

Anyway... I just wanted to say that having seen Tintin on the big screen last week I can confidently say that the cd presentation of the music really does capture the spirit of the film.

Inevitably, things change but it's quite interesting now, and exciting too, that we perhaps consider the music written to be part of a film as an increasingly aesthetic experience in its own right (it's been that for a long time of course but it's becoming even more legitimate I think).

I wish we'd had the internet in the 1980s when I was growing up and falling in love with film. Funny to think this: I never used to tell folks I listened to film music.

What I'm getting around to noting here is that the excellence with which the Tintin soundtrack presentation captures the tone of the film has reminded me how a soundtrack album functioned in an age when you couldn't watch the film whenever you liked. The soundtrack to a movie was a musical passport to get you back into the world of a film that you could only see on the big screen or, if you were lucky, perhaps rent out on VHS to watch at home...eventually.

In many ways only being able to 'rewatch' a movie via its soundtrack album was perhaps a better than actually watching the film, allowing the images you recalled to play again in your memory, but somehow connecting to your own original images that riffed on the movie starting point.

(As I write this I am listening to the marvellous film music of British composer Brian Easdale who composed music for the films of Michael Powell. Now there's a director, who, like Steven Spielberg, understood the deep connection between music and movies and the way in which a film's score could live and breath legitimately beyond the viewing of a given movie. )

Thanks for listening.

James

[TownerFan 4,983]

Great post, Jamie. I agree with you!

[JamieC 13]

I'm glad what I was trying to say made some sense.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Not by me.

Same here.

And here as well.

RotS is one of Williams' best scores of the 2000s, and even of his careers. It'd probably make my list of top 10 Williams scores, definietly top 15.

I don't think it's one of his best of the 2000s, and most definitely not of his carreer, good lord! I could immediately come up with 10 Williams scores I'd rather listen to. If you take the three Indys (KOTCS is mostly a George Lucas film that happens to feature Harrison Ford with a hat) and any two Potters, you already have 5.

Then Star Wars, Close Encounters, ET, Geisha, Far and Away, Superman ...

With RotS it's mostly OST construction problems

I'm not sure what goes on in Williams head to include a re-recording of The Throne Room instead or original cues that are highlights of the scores

Oddly, I think the OST is more listenable than the complete score. It's cutting the fat, of which there is plenty in all the prequels. Of course there are highlights not included, but those are far and between in my book.

I don't need filler like "Death Of Dooku".

What other highlights of the score are you talking about that you would rather have as end credit suite material? I already find Battle Of The Heroes out of place between the opening fanfare and the closing. Including that twice on one album is testing my patience. I'd rather have him drop BotH than the throne room bit.

You people are out of your minds

+1

[King Mark 3,626]

What other highlights of the score are you talking about that you would rather have as end credit suite material? I already find Battle Of The Heroes out of place between the opening fanfare and the closing. Including that twice on one album is testing my patience. I'd rather have him drop BotH than the throne room bit.

Here's the list of cues that are better than some on the OST:

Battle Over Coruscant missing cues

Another Happy Landing

Be Careful of your Friend

Palpatine's Big Pitch

Goodbye Old Friend

Going to Utapau

I am the Senate

Bail's Escape/News of the Attack/Yoda Farewell

It Can't Be missing sections

Padme's Visit

The Boys Continue

Cue after Immolation Scene on Pollis Massa

Plans for the Twins

Padme's Funeral and Finale

[Faleel 5,341]

Do not forget Goodbye Old Friend.

I prefer DOTF to BOTH, BUT only the version with more percussion, or when played in theme statement form.

[Ricard 2,244]

what did you vote?

I'm curious how you rate recent JW scores

As I said, I didn't rate the scores but the music as presented on the albums, since I have not heard the complete Tintin score.

I rate them all above Tintin, except for MR and WotW.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Battle Over Coruscant missing cues

Another Happy Landing

Be Careful of your Friend

Palpatine's Big Pitch

Goodbye Old Friend

Going to Utapau

I am the Senate

Bail's Escape/News of the Attack/Yoda Farewell

It Can't Be missing sections

Padme's Visit

The Boys Continue

Cue after Immolation Scene on Pollis Massa

Plans for the Twins

Padme's Funeral and Finale

Padme's Visit is the only think I would have added to the album.

The renditions of the force theme and other themes (Leia's for instance) I can live without, there is plenty of that, and more vibrant too, in the original trilogy.

And it makes no sense, too, because Williams treats them like they were there before the prequels were made, when in "reality" they should build towards, ahem, "Episode IV".

None of the above stuck in my mind after repeated views of the movie. I find the album mostly sufficient and a proper representation of what the rest sounds like.

[Josh500 1,615]

So, after 43 members have cast their votes, the average ranking of the post-1999 JW blockbusters scores among jwfan.net members seems to be thus:

1. Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban

2. Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone

3. Star Wars: Episode III – Revenge of the Sith

4. Star Wars: Episode I – The Phantom Menace

5. A.I. Artificial Intelligence

6. The Adventures of Tintin

7. Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets

8. Star Wars: Episode II – Attack of the Clones

9. Minority Report

10. War of the Worlds

Surprised? I am only surprised that RotS does so much better than Tintin...

[King Mark 3,626]

Well, I don't think you can make that list from your poll

Seems about right but probably be

1)HPSS

2)TPM

3)PoA

4)Sith

5)AI

I prefer Sith to PoA

[Josh500 1,615]

Well, I don't think you can make that list from your poll

You kidding? Of course you can!

Just look at the results (so far). Every score is up against the same score... you just need to count the votes to draw up the list!

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

and how do you rate tintin?

since its an option to all polls.

[Josh500 1,615]

and how do you rate tintin?

since its an option to all polls.

This poll/thread is about ranking/comparing scores.

Not rating them!

[tpigeon 3]

I enjoy the Tintin album very much, but I am puzzled by Williams' choice of concert arrangements. The dueling pirates theme is fun and whimsical but should it close the album? And why not a three or four minute suite for Haddock's theme and Tintin's theme? I know we're supposed to judge an album based on what's there rather than what we wish was there, but I have trouble getting over Williams' decisions, particularly considering that he put so much effort into coming up with so many unique themes.

If we're ranking based on albums, I'm putting this behind The Phantom Menace, Minority Report, Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone, and Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban. A.I. is a better score and Williams' best in this time period, but the album is awful.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Actually it is one of the better albums. Enjoyable all the way though, no reprises, no big highlights missing.

[Josh500 1,615]

I enjoy the Tintin album very much, but I am puzzled by Williams' choice of concert arrangements. The dueling pirates theme is fun and whimsical but should it close the album? And why not a three or four minute suite for Haddock's theme and Tintin's theme? I know we're supposed to judge an album based on what's there rather than what we wish was there, but I have trouble getting over Williams' decisions, particularly considering that he put so much effort into coming up with so many unique themes.

I think you're overthinking it.

Yes, many of us were slightly disappointed that there is no concert arrangement of Tintin's Theme (myself included), but once you get past that, it's an enjoyable listen from start to finish!

[Jay 37,322]

I know we're supposed to judge an album based on what's there rather than what we wish was there

So do that...

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The understated nature of Tintin's theme fits the character like a glove.

[tpigeon 3]

Actually it is one of the better albums. Enjoyable all the way though, no reprises, no big highlights missing.

That is a good description of the album. Williams really outdid himself in terms of thematic development and each track offers something a little bit different. Having said that, I wish we had an end credits suite or individual tracks for some of the major themes. In short, I want a Harry's Wondrous World or Hedwig's Theme that ties it all together. I really enjoy "The Adventure Continues" in its own right, but I have to wonder why Williams chose this piece to develop into a concert suite and not Haddock's or Tintin's theme.

Now, I should point out that I haven't seen the film yet, so maybe you're right and Tintin's theme is better suited to more modest statements throughout the album rather than a grand version like The Raiders March. So maybe there was good reason for Williams' decisions on the suites. But that is my only area of concern on this otherwise terrific soundtrack.

[Josh500 1,615]

So we've had the album for a while now...

Anybody wanna change and recast their votes?

[King Mark 3,626]

Can I change my vote?

[Josh500 1,615]

Have you even seen the movie yet?

[King Mark 3,626]

i heard it

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

What is your opinion now?

[King Mark 3,626]

you can read it in other threads

[Josh500 1,615]

Hmmm, sorry for bringing this back, but...

According to these polls, Tintin is quite highly regarded here. Only TPM, PS, PoA, AI, and RotS is more popular than Tintin.

But many people seem to have changed their minds about the Tintin score... anybody wanna change their votes?

[JoeinAR 1,949]

It's better than 2 prequel scores, not as good as any Potter score, I have a fondness for KOTCS score and WotW, but I think Tin Tin is overall a better score than WotW. Minority Report can't handle Tin Tin's jock. And AI doesn't do anything for me.

[Josh500 1,615]

WotW is probably one of my least favorite post-SL JW scores!

I wonder why many people like it so much . . . it's by far the most dissonant score of JW's later career (much more so than MR)!

[Brónach 1,301]

I wonder why many people like it so much . . . it's by far the most dissonant score of JW's later career (much more so than MR)!

In my case, you're answering yourself there...

[gkgyver 1,645]

I don't need to change my vote.

i still like Tintin more than any of the scores challenging it, except Prisoner Of Azkaban.

[indy4 155]

WotW is probably one of my least favorite post-SL JW scores!

I wonder why many people like it so much . . . it's by far the most dissonant score of JW's later career (much more so than MR)!

It's a very unique score, at least for JW. It gets major points for originality and approach.

[Hlao-roo 389]

WotW is probably one of my least favorite post-SL JW scores!

I wonder why many people like it so much . . . it's by far the most dissonant score of JW's later career (much more so than MR)!

It's a very unique score, at least for JW. It gets major points for originality and approach.

Not to mention maturity.

[Josh500 1,615]

It's a very unique score, at least for JW. It gets major points for originality and approach.

Yes, original it may be, but I think this score is not a very "easy" listen either way (like Indy, Star Wars, E.T. etc).

Just not my cup of tea (although of course it's not bad).

[Hlao-roo 389]

Scores that impose steeper demands on the listener are qualitatively superior.

[Josh500 1,615]

Scores that impose steeper demands on the listener are qualitatively superior.

No.

[Incanus 5,713]

Oh Josh! Alan is just teasing you!

Or he might be deadly serious.

One never knows when it comes to Hlao-roo.

I admit a phenomenon most curious.

[Josh500 1,615]

Well, what do you think, Incanus? As regards WotW, I mean.

[Incanus 5,713]

I like the score very much, perhaps exactly because of its different approach. It is all rather doom-laden, propulsive, aggressive and dark music but superbly dramatic. When I am having a bad day I usually listen to it to vent my anger.

[Josh500 1,615]

I like the score very much, perhaps exactly because of its different approach. It is all rather doom-laden, propulsive, aggressive and dark music but superbly dramatic.

It's different, sure. But different doesn't necessarily mean more high quality...

That's why, like I said earlier, I am surprised that so many people seem to like this so much.

Many people seem to crave just different approaches from Williams, regardless of whether the end result is good or bad. They seem to say, "Well, it's different, so it's good!" WotW is one example. PoA is another (although I love this score myself, I can't help but feel that it's rather overrated around here).

When I am having a bad day I usually listen to it to vent my anger.

[Incanus 5,713]

I like the score very much, perhaps exactly because of its different approach. It is all rather doom-laden, propulsive, aggressive and dark music but superbly dramatic.

It's different, sure. But different doesn't necessarily mean more high quality...

That's why, like I said earlier, I am surprised that so many people seem to like this so much.

Many people seem to crave just different approaches from Williams, regardless of whether the end result is good or bad. They seem to say, "Well, it's different, so it's good!" WotW is one example. PoA is another (although I love this score myself, I can't help but feel that it's rather overrated around here).

I do not mean to say that WotW is good only because it is different. I really feel that it has certain raw energy and pull to it. It is not highly thematic but as I said propulsive and relentless. I seem to find similar dark allure to it as I do with The Fury (which is much more thematic), the grim and fateful and elegiac tone of the whole score fascinating. On one hand Williams was writing very melodramatic monster music in the spirit of the old sci-fi and horror films and on the other he provides lyricism for rare moments of calm in the orchestral storm that range from moments of ponderous tragedy to intimate ethereal piano solos.

[Josh500 1,615]

I do not mean to say that WotW is good only because it is different. I really feel that it has certain raw energy and pull to it. It is not highly thematic but as I said propulsive and relentless.

Hmmmm, yes. Good point!

I really wonder whether JW finds it easier or more difficult to write this kind of non-thematic, rhythm-based score as opposed to more thematical material (like Star Wars, Indiana Jones, etc.).

[Incanus 5,713]

Actually you can observe Williams leaning towards rhythm and propulsion in many of his scores in the past 15 years. From Star Wars Prequels to Patriot to Minority Report Williams has made concessions to the modern film scoring style and gravitated towards more ostinato and rhythm based forward carrying motion in his action music over fluid balletic thematic development of the yesteryear. It does appear frequently in his scores as well, since it is so ingrained in his style but propulsion has clearly become very dominating in modern film making and thus even masters like Williams have to follow the times and adapt.

And of course there are among the scores he has done during this period these thematically rich and balletic scores where the action music is equally fluid. The Adventures of Tintin springs first to mind as a recent example.

[Josh500 1,615]

Actually you can observe Williams leaning towards rhythm and propulsion in many of his scores in the past 15 years. From Star Wars Prequels to Patriot to Minority Report Williams has made concessions to the modern film scoring style and gravitated towards more ostinato and rhythm based forward carrying motion in his action music over fluid balletic thematic development of the yesteryear. It does appear frequently in his scores as well, since it is so ingrained in his style but propulsion has clearly become very dominating in modern film making and thus even masters like Williams have to follow the times and adapt.

Yes, indeed. And WotW might be an extreme example of this new trend.

I am not saying I don't like this new trend, on the contrary, scores based on rhythm and ostinato, propulsion and drive, can be very listenable and fun. But when a score is all that and then very dissonant to boot, without any recognizable or hummable themes, then I am not so sure anymore. Surely, film score lovers tend to look for (signs of) themes in any score. When they're missing, well . . . I can't help but feel that the score is lacking in some respect.

But yeah, as to WotW, it might be quite underrated . . . by me.

[KK 3,307]

I always admired War of the Worlds as a score. Yes its hard to listen to. But JW's intentions were clear and the result is actually quite an intelligent score if you ask me.The tension that Williams builds is well conceived, and the raw energy in the score is rather effective.

[ShowUStheHOOK 8]

Guess I'll jump in here, though don't know how valid my opinion will be.. I actually enjoyed War of the Worlds. I saw the film in theatres with a friend of mine and wondered what williams' approach was going to be for the score. After the first 20 minutes I was reminded of JAWS in a way. It was a score that instead of a theme used an ostinato to convey the fear brought upon by the shark. I felt Williams was using a similar of not the same approach here. Not that it was a bad thing! It was most welcomed. Even when watching the movie, I did start getting goosebumps by the time it got to the ferry scene. Its just one of those scores that gets under your skin and you aren't aware of it at first, but gradually you realize that its working on a subtle level. Just my thoughts.

[indy4 155]

War of the Worlds contains a melodic theme based on the Dies Irae. It just gets some very camouflaged variations, which can make it difficult to spot it.

[Incanus 5,713]

War of the Worlds contains a melodic theme based on the Dies Irae. It just gets some very camouflaged variations, which can make it difficult to spot it.

You truly have Dies Irae on the brain but it is quite apt description.

And actually the score contains more than this one motif, Williams even at his most athematic could not stay away from building recurring recognizable musical ideas.

[indy4 155]

I can't help it, I just wrote a big research paper on it. And you are quite right, there are some other melodic themes. Do any of them other than the Dies Irae carry through the entire film, though? It's one of those scores where every time I hear it I pick up new features, but I always feel like there's so much more I haven't yet discovered yet, so I wouldn't be surprised if there were.

[Incanus 5,713]

The nod to the old WotW and monster music of old, the motif for the aliens and their machines appears quite a few times when they are commiting their most violent destruction.