War Horse MOVIE Discussion thread

[Jay 37,323]

Screenings around the country have started this week (see here).

If you have seen the movie, share your thoughts!

Please user the spoiler tag ( [ spoiler] [ /spoiler] ) when necessary. Thanks!

[nightscape94 965]

Okay, I just got back from the screening. I'll try my best to write some type of official review tomorrow, but for now I'll just say this: The movie was wonderful, vintage Spielberg.

The movie is bookended by two majestically shot and scored scenes. Spielberg relies heavily on the music to first create a mood, and then resolve it in a very reflective and understated way in order to evoke an emotional response about what we've witnessed. Williams absolutely nails it.

Tim

[King Mark 3,626]

How loud is the score mixed in the film?

A.I. barely audible or Geisha loud?

here'sa positive youtube review

[Hlao-roo 389]

Is Williams' score as shamelessly manipulative as his score for E.T.?

Is Spielberg's movie as deeply sentimental and overwrought as E.T.?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Does the film contain any subtext that make it anything more then a saccharine "a boy a and his horse" type story?

[Hlao-roo 389]

Does the film make any effort to engage at length with Just War Theory, or is it hopelessly encumbered, in typical Spielbergian fashion, with naive anti-war sentiment?

Does Williams' score demonstrate a necessary and proper understanding of contemporary cinematic sensibilities, or is it anachronistically wedded to the antediluvian methodologies of a less sophisticated era?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Does the linear, simple melody from the trailer indicate a more Goldsmith-like approach to this score? ala Rudy?

[Homeboy 0]

Is Williams' score as shamelessly manipulative as his score for E.T.?

Is Spielberg's movie as deeply sentimental and overwrought as E.T.?

Does the film make any effort to engage at length with Just War Theory, or is it hopelessly encumbered, in typical Spielbergian fashion, with naive anti-war sentiment?

Don't take this the wrong way, but God: it must suck to be you.......................

[Percival 0]

Screening preview reactions gathered here:

http://www.movieparliament.com/campaign-articles.html

and

http://www.awardscircuit.com/2011/11/02/whats-the-first-word-on-steven-spielbergs-war-horse/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=whats-the-first-word-on-steven-spielbergs-war-horse

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Don't take this the wrong way, but God: it must suck to be you.......................

Ever heard of sarcasm, homeboy?

Judging by your screename I hope to god you have?

[Percival 0]

Detailed review here, but beware, it has spoilers:

http://movievu.info/?p=699

and some reviews in the comments section here:

http://hollywood-elsewhere.com/2011/11/lotta_horse_lov.php

[Homeboy 0]

Don't take this the wrong way, but God: it must suck to be you.......................

Ever heard of sarcasm, homeboy?

Judging by your screename I hope to god you have?

Oops.... Was that sarcasm..? Sorry, Hlao.....

[Sandor 796]

Don't take this the wrong way, but God: it must suck to be you.......................

Ever heard of sarcasm, homeboy?

Judging by your screename I hope to god you have?

Oops.... Was that sarcasm..? Sorry, Hlao.....

Welcome to the board.

[publicist 4,643]

Well, the gushing is overwhelming, but i was alarmed about this:

"There are a lot of problems with Spielberg's direction too...I don't know how many more sweeping pans around the horses I could have stomached....

The other problem is that the story itself has no plausibility nor believability...

So many moments ring false, including a brotherly encounter between a Brit and German as they work together to free the horse in no man's land, or when dozens of British soldiers pool their money together so that Albert can buy back Joey at the end of the war. Why do any of these people care? Why should they? It's not realistic. Another ridiculous scene is when about 30 or so German soldiers are retreating due to an oncoming British tank, which then decides to turn right and chase the horse instead and back it into a corner... because God knows that is how one wins a war.

As for John William's score, it is nothing to write home about. While that main theme we all know from the trailer is beautiful, it loses all of its emotional impact because of how many times it is used. Like, 80% of the score seems to be that one track. Everytime the horse does something "inspirational", that track plays. Joey stands up--cue music--Joey walks--cue music--Joey runs--cue music--Albert rides Joey--cue music--Joey finally ploughs--cue music, etc. By the time they finally get to the war, that theme did nothing for me.... and that's when it should have the most impact!"

If i take the overly positive reviews as a benchmark, the above cited seems to belong to a different movie.

[Incanus 5,713]

Well that is certainly from the other extreme end of the spectrum.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

That pretty much confirms the fears I have about this film. A sappy, feel good chick-flick in disguise, crapping all over Steven's more serious films dealing with war and death (Empire Of The sun, Schindlers List, Saving Private Ryan, possible Munich)

[publicist 4,643]

I expect it to be somewhat of a Cecil B. DeMille movie: great showmanship, but a lot of people will roll their eyes how inane it actually is.

[Brónach 1,301]

I expect this to be good but not great. If it is great I wouldn't complain, though. If.

[TownerFan 4,983]

This is Spielberg's take on Disney's classic animal movies. It's family entertainment, period.

This has always been clear from the get-go, imho.

[Sandor 796]

From AICN:

John Williams' score? I liked much of it, but it's omnipresent in the film. There are very few scenes without score, and unfortunately it's used to accentuate the emotion of the scene more so than it probably needs to be. However, it's a new John Williams score, and the WAR HORSE theme in the trailer is throughout in the film, and that completely works. Williams knows how to pump a scene full of emotion better than any film composer alive, and I'll admit to getting teary-eyed at several scenes.

[TownerFan 4,983]

I'm sure both the film and the score will be perfect material for Spielberg's and Williams' detractors.

[publicist 4,643]

I'm sure both the film and the score will be perfect material for Spielberg's and Williams' detractors.

Pointing to criticisms which of course are only motivated by their irrational hate towards both men.

We all know better when we have seen the film, but i generally don't like Spielberg collecting brownie points for putting maudlin stories into relevant historical contexts like WWI. SAVING PRIVATE RYAN is full of ideological no-go's, which of course are tossed aside by most who just see it as 2-hour marathon to get the senses excited - but i don't know the play, maybe it forsaw the problems and somehow addressed them?

I, for one, would cry foul if he similarly depicts it as a 'worthy war', where a german soldier whose life is spared early on suddenly appears ion the last act to kill his well-do'ers brutally.

[Josh500 1,615]

OK, anybody else think this movie is a serious contender for Best Picture? (although not music)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Edgar

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Josh500 1,615]

OK, anybody else think this movie is a serious contender for Best Picture?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Edgar

Why? Because it sounds boring?

If so, I agree.

This should shut you up.

Movies Clint Eastwood has directed which was nominated for/won Best Picture:

The Unforgiven (won!)

Mystic River (nominated)

Million Dollar Baby (won!)

Letters from Iwo Jima (nominated)

Movies Leonardo DiCaprio has starred in which was nominated for/won Best Picture:

Titanic (won!)

Gangs of New York (nominated)

The Aviator (nominated)

The Departed (won!)

Inception (nominated)

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Josh500 1,615]

I said a serious contender for Best Picture!

Why are you harping on whether it's boring or exciting?

And no, I won't try to convince you of anything. Just don't watch this or WH if you don't want to.

____

Actually, there ARE some action scenes:

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Josh500 1,615]

ANYWAY, I can imagine this picture being up for Best Picture along with WH!

Can I imagine Clint Eastwood winning an Oscar for BEST SCORE over John WIlliams? Sadly, I can.

[TownerFan 4,983]

From AICN:

John Williams' score? I liked much of it, but it's omnipresent in the film. There are very few scenes without score.

Since the movie it's 140 mins. long, this means there's a lot of unreleased music...

[Jay 37,323]

Only if the report is accurate. Sometimes a movie FEELS like it is wall-to-wall score even though it isn't

[TownerFan 4,983]

Yes, I know. I just wanted to inject some craziness for all the unreleased cues-obsessed guys

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[King Mark 3,626]

I'm sure we'll have plenty of discussion about that and there will be PLENTY of unreleased music in this score

Reports that the "Trailer" theme (my favorite) is all over the place in the film and I only heard it twice in the samples is already disturbing me

[Incanus 5,713]

Yes, I know. I just wanted to inject some craziness for all the unreleased cues-obsessed guys

Yeah, I say it's time to create a "Ode to War Horse Unreleased Music" thread!

You should name it "The Trough is always half-empty - War Horse Unreleased Music".

[TownerFan 4,983]

Reports that the "Trailer" theme (my favorite) is all over the place in the film and I only heard it twice in the samples is already disturbing me

You'll be hearing it more than twice on the CD, don't worry

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

So the cue is also tracked and looped on the CD?

Tintin got an almost perfect CD release, meaning there HAS to be a major issue with this one!

[Jay 37,323]

There is, obviously, no tracking or looping on the CD.

And just cause one random guy on the internet said it sounded like the same piece of music played over and over again in the movie doesn't mean that's the reality.

[Demondm810 399]

The review from AICN has me excited, considering how much he claims it is 100% Spielberg. I don't find Spielberg's sentimentality a problem, I like it.

Can't wait for this film.

There is, obviously, no tracking or looping on the CD.

And just cause one random guy on the internet said it sounded like the same piece of music played over and over again in the movie doesn't mean that's the reality.

Exactly.

[publicist 4,643]

HERE is the AIC-review.

Quote: "WAR HORSE is old fashioned, and I mean that in the best possible sense. It wears its emotions on its sleeve, and there is no place for cynicism in that world. It has obvious films like ALL QUIET ON THE WESTERN FRONT and the films of John Ford and David Lean in its DNA, but the end result is all Steven Spielberg - WAR HORSE is an epic that has Spielberg doing what he does best. He takes the audience on an emotional journey through World War I and out the other side, and the film very much feels like Spielberg paying tribute to the filmmakers he loved as a young man. WAR HORSE is what you'd call an "old soul." It's a film that could have been made - perhaps not with the technology but definitely with the heart - in Hollywood's heyday. David Selznick would have adored WAR HORSE."

Much more convincing than the usual hyperbole, at least the reviewer does betray a sense of film history. The Ford/Lean-comparisons sound promising.

[Romão 2,274]

In this day and age, where cynism and nihlism are the flavor of the day and people like to throw around adjectives like Oscar-bait and manipulative to undermine any movie that can actually move an audience (something that is very hard to do), ET wouldn't have been half as well received by the only community as it was by the general public in 1982

[publicist 4,643]

Reports that the "Trailer" theme (my favorite) is all over the place in the film and I only heard it twice in the samples is already disturbing me

You'll be hearing it more than twice on the CD, don't worry

Is it already making the rounds here? How digusting. At least be quiet about it!

[tpigeon 3]

I attended the screening of War Horse last night in Plymouth Meeting, PA. As I noted in the other thread, I'll be working on a longer piece for the film's release in December, but right now is just some of my initial feedback. So forgive me if my thoughts aren't very organized. I'll talk about the film first and then move over to the score.

I should first note that I have been skeptical about the premise of this film for sometime. When I first heard about it I liked the prospect of a Spielberg-shot World War I movie but I didn't go for the "boy and his horse" angle. Not that I am averse to these sorts of stories; I simply never saw the dramatic appeal of a kid who bonds with a horse and then goes to fight the war to re-unite with the horse.

After seeing the film, I am happy to report that it's much better than I expected it would be. Structurally, it resembles A.I. in how it begins as a straightforward family portrait in the first act and then drastically changes course for the long second act, which is series of episodes with a variety of new characters. The film is actually most effective in delivering the shorter vignettes in its long middle section rather than with the main story established in the opening 30-40 minutes. Spielberg mostly avoids attributing human feelings to animals, though there are a few points that veer close. But to my surprise, the "horse perspective" plot device (which I was very wary about) is what works best about the film. This is because the story remains fixed on the human characters that come in and out of the story. And while it is not especially subtle (which is expected of Spielberg), these smaller stories are quilted together into a larger anti-war mosaic that I found much more effective than Saving Private Ryan. We've all seen countless anti-war movies, but I'd like to think that how a story is narrated and presented more strongly guides how effective and emotionally involving it is, no matter how broad or oft-repeated its central themes may be. On that note, each of the smaller portraits in the middle of the film are delicate and compelling in depicting how various individuals are affected by and participate in the war. Unlike Private Ryan, this film gives us characters on all sides of the conflict who are fearful, caring, and human.

In Spielberg's vision, the larger purpose of the war and its politics is not a factor at all. This is where the plot element of the horse plays a key role. The story of the horse becomes involving precisely because it avoids the "horse feelings" for lack of a better term. By framing the story around the horse without diving too deeply into the horse's motivations or emotions, Spielberg tells a story that involved me both cerebrally and emotionally. The human characters in this film are largely all good people who do small things to help each other out along the way. But the film also explore the often dehumanizing social roles we inevitably must inhabit to survive. I won't delve too much farther into this, but I will also note that this film is as much a examination of the relationship of man and technology, as it is man with nature. The technology of warfare is a major thematic point; Spielberg conjures some stirring images of the violent marriage of technology and nature.

If the film has a weak point, it's in the main plotline. Spielberg handles the early scenes with uncharacteristic sluggishness, since he usually excels with this material. And he sentimentalizes Albert and Joey's relationship and Albert's relationship with his father to an extent that will be too much for some. Having said that, outside the film's John Ford-inspired ending, Spielberg tends not to dip too heavily into the schmaltz. Nevertheless, this is the main story thrust of the movie and audiences will no doubt be divided over how much they are affected by the notion of a "boy and his horse." But despite my major suspicions toward this notion, the film's gradual unfolding into a larger networked narrative gives it much more dimension that resulted in an absorbing and affecting experience anchored by Spielberg's ever-sophisticated and striking visual senses. Some of his flaws certainly come into play, but War Horse showcases many more of his strengths.

Now, on to the score. John Williams really seemed to connect with this movie. As we've heard from the sound clips and the three full tracks from the radio show, the music is gentle and pastoral. As much as I enjoy the Tintin score, War Horse for me is Williams in his prime. His underscore does not feel like filler music but actively helps to create the atmosphere and emotional surroundings of a given scene. The theme from the trailer is used often and is the main idea in the score. So, for those concerned about it not getting much play on the soundtrack, I would guess it shows up more than a few times on the 67-minute album. If there is one flaw with the score it's that it is too present in the early portions of the film. Williams perhaps overdoes a few scenes of Albert and Joey interacting. But these are minor complaints about an otherwise great score. A definite highlight is the action-heavy second half of "No Man's Land," which accompanies a collection of shots that qualifies as some of Spielberg's most beautiful images.

And one final note on the score, for those who were curious about the final track on the album "Homecoming". I'm not quite sure why it's given this title because this is actually the suite that plays over the end credits. It's edited heavily, but the credits begin with the start of "Homecoming".

I hope I was able to give a good sense of the film and score. I certainly would not have been able to see the film had I not happened upon a thread here by chance two days ago.

Ted

[publicist 4,643]

In this day and age, where cynism and nihlism are the flavor of the day and people like to throw around adjectives like Oscar-bait and manipulative to undermine any movie that can actually move an audience (something that is very hard to do), ET wouldn't have been half as well received by the only community as it was by the general public in 1982

E. T. wasn't about world wars. It's a more weighty subject and the film rightfully should be under some scrutiny for that. People can be moved for the wrong reasons, you know.

I hope I was able to give a good sense of the film and score. I certainly would not have been able to see the film had I not happened upon a thread here by chance two days ago.

Ted

Sounds good enough for now.

[Jay 37,323]

Thank you for your report Ted!

[King Mark 3,626]

Good, I DIDN'T want another "serious" Spielberg film in the style of Schindler's List, Amistad, Munich and Saving Private Ryan

We'll get more of that in Lincoln

[Romão 2,274]

In this day and age, where cynism and nihlism are the flavor of the day and people like to throw around adjectives like Oscar-bait and manipulative to undermine any movie that can actually move an audience (something that is very hard to do), ET wouldn't have been half as well received by the only community as it was by the general public in 1982

E. T. wasn't about world wars. It's a more weighty subject and the film rightfully should be under some scrutiny for that. People can be moved for the wrong reasons, you know.

.

War is just the backdrop for this particular story, I reckon, and Spielberg has always depicted war situations very tastefully in all the movies he's done. Now, the particular relation between the boy and his horse, can be as sappy and sugary as it wants too, as that has very little to do to how this major conflict is treated in the movie

[King Mark 3,626]

I don't see anything wrong with making an old fashioned war film that's emotional and epic.

What annoys me is war films that play out as patriotic bullshit like an army recruitment film (such as Michael Bay films or the C.O.D. style Battle L.A.)

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Percival 0]

Thanks Ted. I'm very envious - we don't get to see it til January, so I'm looking forward to your longer review (the one above seemed pretty long to me, as it was!)