War Horse MOVIE Discussion thread

[Incanus 5,713]

Thank you for your report Ted!

Yes. Thank you for the fine review Ted. It is reassuring that you found the story compelling despite initial apprehensions. I had similar fears about the main plot but you make it sound like something that holds together in the end. And thank you for your description of the music as well. Sounds wonderful!. I can't wait to hear the album!

[TownerFan 4,983]

Reports that the "Trailer" theme (my favorite) is all over the place in the film and I only heard it twice in the samples is already disturbing me

You'll be hearing it more than twice on the CD, don't worry

Is it already making the rounds here? How digusting. At least be quiet about it!

I'm just wishing, I do not have the CD. I'm sure it will be heard several times on the OST as well.

[King Mark 3,625]

What annoys me is war films that play out as patriotic bullshit like an army recruitment film.

This is exactly what this film is. The only difference is that it is aimed at horses.

What I like about Spielberg is that's he's usually pretty neutral in his films in regards to politics and religion.There's never any obvious left wing or right wing propaganda

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

What annoys me is war films that play out as patriotic bullshit like an army recruitment film.

This is exactly what this film is. The only difference is that it is aimed at horses.

Oh you have seen it already, where was that?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

I see.

Actually I think you haven't seen even Tintin yet, just like to bash Spielberg.

You must hate Steven.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

[Sandor 796]

What annoys me is war films that play out as patriotic bullshit like an army recruitment film.

This is exactly what this film is. The only difference is that it is aimed at horses.

Oh you have seen it already, where was that?

Come one! You don't have to see it to know that. A movie about a horse that become a war hero? It screams "JOIN THE ARMY, BECOME A PROUD STALLION" all over the place.

Funny. Haven't seen the film yet, but this is not what I get from the plot or trailers at all.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Join the army to fight the vile Hun and his viscous empire building!

[Hlao-roo 389]

The War Horse main theme is lovely, but I'm not sure it's so great that it warrants such a high usage rate, narrative suitability notwithstanding. Doesn't sound like Spielberg and Williams were terribly discriminating during the spotting sessions, in general. Best case scenario is that Williams either continually develops the theme in some interesting ways (unlikely, see Memoirs of a Geisha), or he puts it through some nice instrumental variation that renders its oversaturation somewhat more palatable. We shall see (or hear).

[Incanus 5,713]

Join the army to fight the vile Hun and his viscous empire building!

It's not too late! This war has been over for nearly a century! Enlist now!

[Sandor 796]

It should also be noted that War Horse is far from a 'mono-thematic' score. It features at least four major themes. But perhaps as with E.T. (for example) one might have left the cinema feeling the Flying Theme was all over the place.

[Jay 37,287]

Exactly!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Post edited - see here

[Jay 37,287]

The movie? What are you talking about. I haven't even seen the movie!

[Hlao-roo 389]

Some crazed Goldsmith stalker thinks War Horse is "great."

EDIT: Apparently referring to the score, not the movie.

[nightscape94 965]

I went to the Plymouth Meeting, Pa showing of War Horse last night. Here are my thoughts.

The episodic nature of the story is critical, and I believe its strength. This could be jarring to some viewers perhaps, because they may feel it jumps around from one segment to another too quickly, that we don’t have enough time to settle. And that’s the point. It helps underline the concept that friendship can be fleeting and to cherish it no matter how painful it might be once it's lost. There are groups of characters that the horse encounters who have established relationships, and Joey is inserted, sometimes violently, in the middle of it. Whether it’s his first encounter with the two German brothers, or the grandfather and his granddaughter, this serves as a constant reflection of love between Joey and Albert, and their need to reconnect. The foundation of the movie is built on the idea of relationship, and specifically the importance of friendship.

That can also be juxtaposed with how Joey is treated in other cases, in very objectifying ways. These two elements of tenderness and abusiveness are at constant odds with each other.

War is a vital character in the film, and plays a serious role and what ultimately shapes the narrative. We get the sense that there are real things at stake. Death is a sustained threat and things aren’t rosy sweet. There is true sadness. War is not just a backdrop, it’s the driving force that separates them, what strengthens them, and what feeds their desire to reunite.

I didn’t feel Spielberg toying with the audience. The story felt organic despite its function as a fable. The characters are drawn clearly, and presented in real life just enough to softly bury the philosophical messages about friendship and war.

When the last shots play out we understand the hardships that were endured and the hope for peace.

The music is the heart, the pulse. It quickly establishes a mood and plays unabashedly, front and center, for the first few minutes with majestic shots of rolling hills while Joey is introduced. The main bonding theme is spotted well, and not at all overused. The overall mix favors Williams, and certain scene showcase the music. It’s the highlight of some very key scenes. The part that accompanies the "No Man's Land" track is harrowing and will just tear your heart out.

The movie isn’t perfect. The passage of time could have been handled a little better. It stretches over 4 years but it felt much more compressed, despite how Spielberg compartmentalizes each section of the movie. But small grievances aside, the movie works awesomely and I hope that you all get a chance to see it. Personally I cannot wait to hear the full OST.

If people want me to specifically describe any events let me know and I’ll respond with spoiler brackets. Because some of the more gently scored scenes toward the end belong to plot spoilers.

I'll continue to add things, to flesh some ideas as they come to me.

Tim

[King Mark 3,625]

wow, I can't wait now

A Williams score mixed properly. Even Spielberg has been downmixing the scores in the last decade

[tpigeon 3]

Yes, I recall the music being very prominent throughout. As Tim noted, both sections of "No Man's Land" (which are at different places in the film) are perfect.

My only problem with the score is that insists a little too hard early-on. Given how much the film covers, it makes sense why Williams and Spielberg saw fit to sell their connection so early with music.

[nightscape94 965]

My only problem with the score is that insists a little too hard early-on. Given how much the film covers, it makes sense why Williams and Spielberg saw fit to sell their connection so early with music.

The use of music is definitely front loaded. My feeling is that Spielberg relied heavily on the music early on to build up the relationship because they had a relatively short amount of time to do so. I think he was keen of underlying their love musically to give it more weight quicker so you can feel the effects linger thereafter.

But also, the middle to late sections of the movie are more war-oriented, so the music is more carefully used. But when it is used, you definitely hear it.

Tim

[tpigeon 3]

Exactly. And good point about the score being front-loaded. There considerably more unscored scenes in the later parts of the movie. But when the themes are restated they seem to have added weight.

[TownerFan 4,983]

Sounds more and more tantalizing.

[Percival 0]

If any of you are Veterans in Canada, there are seven special screenings next Wednesday (16 November). Details here:

http://www.brandonsun.com/entertainment/breaking-news/veterans-invited-to-advance-screening-of-steven-spielbergs-war-horse-133611338.html?thx=y

[Quintus 5,399]

I went to the Plymouth Meeting, Pa showing of War Horse last night. Here are my thoughts.

The episodic nature of the story is critical, and I believe its strength. This could be jarring to some viewers perhaps, because they may feel it jumps around from one segment to another too quickly, that we don’t have enough time to settle. And that’s the point. It helps underline the concept that friendship can be fleeting and to cherish it no matter how painful it might be once it's lost. There are groups of characters that the horse encounters who have established relationships, and Joey is inserted, sometimes violently, in the middle of it. Whether it’s his first encounter with the two German brothers, or the grandfather and his granddaughter, this serves as a constant reflection of love between Joey and Albert, and their need to reconnect. The foundation of the movie is built on the idea of relationship, and specifically the importance of friendship.

That can also be juxtaposed with how Joey is treated in other cases, in very objectifying ways. These two elements of tenderness and abusiveness are at constant odds with each other.

War is a vital character in the film, and plays a serious role and what ultimately shapes the narrative. We get the sense that there are real things at stake. Death is a sustained threat and things aren’t rosy sweet. There is true sadness. War is not just a backdrop, it’s the driving force that separates them, what strengthens them, and what feeds their desire to reunite.

I didn’t feel Spielberg toying with the audience. The story felt organic despite its function as a fable. The characters are drawn clearly, and presented in real life just enough to softly bury the philosophical messages about friendship and war.

When the last shots play out we understand the hardships that were endured and the hope for peace.

The music is the heart, the pulse. It quickly establishes a mood and plays unabashedly, front and center, for the first few minutes with majestic shots of rolling hills while Joey is introduced. The main bonding theme is spotted well, and not at all overused. The overall mix favors Williams, and certain scene showcase the music. It’s the highlight of some very key scenes. The part that accompanies the "No Man's Land" track is harrowing and will just tear your heart out.

The movie isn’t perfect. The passage of time could have been handled a little better. It stretches over 4 years but it felt much more compressed, despite how Spielberg compartmentalizes each section of the movie. But small grievances aside, the movie works awesomely and I hope that you all get a chance to see it. Personally I cannot wait to hear the full OST.

If people want me to specifically describe any events let me know and I’ll respond with spoiler brackets. Because some of the more gently scored scenes toward the end belong to plot spoilers.

I'll continue to add things, to flesh some ideas as they come to me.

Tim

Nice.

Would you say it's a warmly sober movie? What I'm trying to find out is whether or not Spielberg has negotiated his way through the story without ever dipping it in syrup. There's no cheese, is there?

A relationship between a boy and a horse could so easily turn into Free Willy, which I'd rather it didn't.

[Incanus 5,713]

Would you say it's a warmly sober movie? What I'm trying to find out is whether or not Spielberg has negotiated his way through the story without ever dipping it in syrup. There's no cheese, is there?

A relationship between a boy and a horse could so easily turn Free Willy, which I'd be rather it didn't.

Yes that was my main concern, how sincere and believable this friendship between Albert and Joey is since I think that played with certain truth and conviction it might be quite touching and genuine. I am hoping that is the case.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I saw horse meat in the butchers today, looked delicious..

[Incanus 5,713]

I saw horse meat in the butchers today, looked delicious..

So you could say you are hungry for some War Horse right now?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Right now I'd prefer some pussy....

[nightscape94 965]

Would you say it's a warmly sober movie? What I'm trying to find out is whether or not Spielberg has negotiated his way through the story without ever dipping it in syrup. There's no cheese, is there?

A relationship between a boy and a horse could so easily turn into Free Willy, which I'd rather it didn't.

I'll put it this way. The relationship is handled very modestly within the film itself, and it doesn't feel at all out of place or cheesy. It helps that the main character Albert is only 15 when he meets Joey in that you can buy his immediate child-like fascination. However, the film is still about a boy literally going to war basically to find one horse within all that chaos. So is it cheesy? It didn't feel that way with how Spielberg plays it in the reality of the film. But it may depend on how you feel about the plot. If you don't buy the outline or driving force of the whole thing, then you may not buy the relationship.

At the end, it certainly felt like a Spielberg movie. Not sure if that totally answers your question, or creates more questions.

Tim

[Quintus 5,399]

You couldn't have answered me better. Thanks!

[tpigeon 3]

I found the film only to be syrupy in its final scenes. Spielberg employs vibrant colors, his trademark silhouettes, and John Williams' score for much of the emotional effect. And like Tim said, the level to which it affects you will depend on how much you buy the premise. To me, the Albert/Joey relationship is probably the least compelling thing about the movie, and that's largely due to the shaky first act. Where the movie really takes off is in the episodic mid-section, which gives you so many shades of the war and the fear of those which it surrounds.

[publicist 4,643]

So it's an uneven film...like so often with Stevie's movies in the last 15 years.

[Hlao-roo 389]

A engaging movie with an uncomplicated narrative and sympathetic characters. Those who argue that Spielberg's film, in the end, amounts to little more than a somewhat punchier Hallmark greeting card, are not outrageously off the mark, but I would submit that the Hobermans of the world, ironically, oversimplify and caricature the Spielbergian amalgam of wit and pablum, authenticity and artifice, passion and excess, technique and manipulation. This is a resolutely unapologetic love letter to the best human nature has to offer, written with a steady hand that has grappled with the depravity of man and yet is not overcome by it.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I enjoyed it.

The first act didn't feel to me like Spielberg's heart was all in it. It was just kind of predictable, cutesy and slightly corny. It's the second half of the movie where it really elevates. Don't judge in on the first act. As you progress through the movie with the horse in what becomes a sort of anthology film, it gets better and better.

(the story comes full circle by the end, didn't even know this was coming)

No Man's Land = the best scenes of the movie. That last hour or so is very good. If you'll recall the images from the trailer of Joey hauling ass across the battlefield at night, that's a seriously riveting scene and probably JW's best scored in the film. That's the start of the best stuff.

I'd recommend it. I think most people here are going to see it one way or another. The movie is, of course, always entertaining to view, technically astounding and feels very grand and expensive. I'm sure it was, by the way. You get the usual performances Mr. Spielberg demands of his cast, a stirring JW score, some pretty impressive action sequences, beautiful locations etc. Is it everything the Spielberg detractors say it is? Maybe it is. I won't say you should enjoy it. But give it a try?

[Hlao-roo 389]

The first act didn't feel to me like Spielberg's heart was all in it. It was just kind of predictable, cutesy and slightly corny.

I disagree. A predictable, Thomas Kinkade-like quality runs through largely the entire film -- and that's something the viewer either accepts or rejects. If the movie is guilty at all of jarring tonal shifts, it's between the scenes of civilian life and scenes of war -- which, of course, might be precisely Spielberg's point.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

I went in with relatively low expectations, there were some parts where I laughed out loud. (For instance, the scene where Albert's friend squeals "Will you look at you!" during the plowing scene.

The Shmaltz and cheese however can't change my opinion that the movie was fantastic. The movie almost never bored me, the cinematography and scenery was some of the best I've ever seen and the music was amazing as I expected (I'm also a fan of the new credit music edit, it gets to the point faster). There was some great unreleased music like the soft woodwind statement of the bonding theme and a very nice violin solo. And the action part of No Man's Land in the music gave me chills. Near the end I shed a few tears too.

My score would be around an 8.5/10.

P.S. I guess I'm the only one who loved the first act.

[Hlao-roo 389]

I almost always enjoy Spielberg's sense of humor, and War Horse is no exception. Hall and Curtis penned some great one-liners throughout.

I'm not sure, by the way, why E.T. receives so matter-of-fact a pass for its arguable excesses (the cutesy bonding scenes between Elliot and E.T., the exaggerated strains of mournful terror so helpfully supplied by Williams in "E.T. is Dying," the whole slam-bang-whoosh! closing sequence), while War Horse is derided from the start for daring to show the birthing of a foal (the horror!)

[Quintus 5,399]

Ah, the whole manipulation "problem" again.

I LOVE to be manipulated the hell out of by a movie. Whenever I go to the cinema I seek manipulation. I want the director to pull the necessary strings and manipulate me for all I'm worth. I whore myself out to movie manipulation.

Which is probably one of the reasons I'm always disappointed by the sheer amount of movies which can't even manage this one "simple" thing.

I think the detractors of cinematic manipulation are the socially awkward pseudo-intellectuals of the world, afraid to let down their guard. And they get angry at a movie when they realise they almost did. It's a defense mechanism.

[publicist 4,643]

I think the detractors of cinematic manipulation are the socially awkward pseudo-intellectuals of the world, afraid to let down there guard. And they get angry at a movie when they realise they almost did. It's a defense mechanism.

Ah, come on Quinty, are those who are neither socially awkward nor dishonest about their mental abilities just not uncool enough to voice a discerning opinion? Can i not eye-roll at dog reaction shots or whatever forseeable scheme or brand our master manipulators have patented as working devices since the ages?

I haven't seen WAR HORSE - over the holidays, i kust saw SHERLOCK HOMES, which i will heartily stab in the back in the movie review section (although not for reasons of emotional manipulation, but assault on sane reason).

[Quintus 5,399]

You can eye-roll till your heart's content if you want, and I'd probably join you - if the movie's shit.

[Brónach 1,301]

I LOVE to be manipulated the hell out of by a movie. Whenever I go to the cinema I seek manipulation. I want the director to pull the necessary strings and manipulate me for all I'm worth. I whore myself out to movie manipulation.

Which is probably one of the reasons I'm always disappointed by the sheer amount of movies which can't even manage this one "simple" thing.

I think it's extremely difficult to achieve. The audience is too aware that they're seeing fiction.

[crocodile 7,984]

A engaging movie with an uncomplicated narrative and sympathetic characters. Those who argue that Spielberg's film, in the end, amounts to little more than a somewhat punchier Hallmark greeting card, are not outrageously off the mark, but I would submit that the Hobermans of the world, ironically, oversimplify and caricature the Spielbergian amalgam of wit and pablum, authenticity and artifice, passion and excess, technique and manipulation. This is a resolutely unapologetic love letter to the best human nature has to offer, written with a steady hand that has grappled with the depravity of man and yet is not overcome by it.

This is actually a very encouraging review. How is the music in the film? Is it really as overbearing as reviews suggest or is it simply a matter of modern tastes?

Karol

[Quintus 5,399]

I thought it was encouraging as well, but I can rarely tell when Alan is being serious. It often seems like he's suspended in a perpetual state of flux - by choice. It's usually easier to just skip his posts.

[publicist 4,643]

At this point, we can safely assume that if you're too highbrow for glossy MGM movies or a worthy roadshow from the 60's, you probably will puke at WAR HORSE.

If you have fun with old NAATIONAL VELVET, like your 160-minute WEST SIDE STORY's or THE ALAMO's, i see no reason why WAR HORSE should be in need of encouragement by anyone else.

[Quintus 5,399]

I won't waste my time with any movie until its recommended to me by 17 unrelated people.

[publicist 4,643]

I won't waste my time with any movie until its recommended to me by 17 unrelated people.

Since 80% of all people are idiots, that's still a gamble!

[Hlao-roo 389]

How is the music in the film? Is it really as overbearing as reviews suggest or is it simply a matter of modern tastes?

<br>

Williams is overemphatic in a few early scenes in 'War Horse,' as is his wont, but the film catches up to the score's level of emotionality in due time. Williams's closing material is appropriately sentimental, rising to the occasion without overstating the case.

<br>The last bit of "Dartmoor, 1912" (~03:10-03:20), as charming as it is on album, is an example of Williams imposing an emotional state by fiat ("an aggravated sense of doggone wonderment," as Hoberman fittingly puts it) rather than letting it develop more organically through events on screen.

<br><br>By the way, Stephanie Zacharek, formerly of Salon.com, in an otherwise thoroughly irresolute review, delivers by far the most enthusiastic endorsement of the War Horse score of any mainstream film critic:

<br>

John Williams, who has written some of the most superb scores in modern film but who, like every other superstar composer, is also sometimes guilty of phoning them in, is on top of his game here: The combat footage is heralded by lots of meaty brass and strings, but the most beautiful sections are the more pastoral ones, where the composer channels another Williams (or, rather a Vaughan Williams), Ralph: You can hear traces of the trilling sweetness and delicacy of “The Lark Ascending,” one of the most beautiful and most quintessentially English pieces of music ever composed.

[publicist 4,643]

That a critic is able to identify THE LARK ASCENDING as channeled through JW has to be one of those rare christmas miracles. A lot of board members wouldn't get that reference.

[TownerFan 4,983]

That a critic is able to identify THE LARK ASCENDING as channeled through JW has to be one of those rare christmas miracles. A lot of board members wouldn't get that reference.

You underestimate people here a little too much.