Bayesian 1,363 Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Thanks all for the insights into this. It’s fascinating to read about JW’s symphony. But I’m completely perplexed about how liner and concert program notes can continually keep miscounting the quantity of a work that JW is clearly unsatisfied with and doesn’t consider as canon, when there are so many other works to pick from. Why highlight something like that? Wouldn’t it get people curious about hearing it? And why hasn’t anyone in JW’s camp ever bothered to fix it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc 2,674 Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 2 hours ago, Iron_Giant said: Why highlight something like that? Because "Symphonies" gives the impression of "serious composer." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Andrade 1,263 Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 A few years ago, FSM online posted a radio interview done in the UK in the late 70's where the host mentions two symphonies, and Williams didn't correct him. @karelm that's quite an interesting theory, that makes a whole lot of sense, knowing how Williams is an admirer of 20th Century Russian composers. SteveMc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,504 Posted March 21, 2019 Author Share Posted March 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Miguel Andrade said: A few years ago, FSM online posted a radio interview done in the UK in the late 70's where the host mentions two symphonies, and Williams didn't correct him. I remember that, but again -- he probably didn't want to correct him by saying "actually, one of them is a sinfonietta...". That would have been very out-of-character for him. In the interviews I've seen, he rarely -- if ever -- corrects interviewers who have something slightly wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamsStarShip2282 308 Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 Why doesn't someone just writing him a letter and ask him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post karelm 2,913 Posted March 23, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 23, 2019 56 minutes ago, WilliamsStarShip2282 said: Why doesn't someone just writing him a letter and ask him? WilliamsStarShip2282, _deleted_, Jurassic Shark and 4 others 3 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,527 Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 Regarding JW's symphony: I can tell JWfan, with complete confidence that it either will be released, or it won't. More than this, I am unable to say. SteveMc and WilliamsStarShip2282 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,511 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 . _deleted_ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 On 3/21/2019 at 8:32 PM, Thor said: I remember that, but again -- he probably didn't want to correct him by saying "actually, one of them is a sinfonietta...". That would have been very out-of-character for him. In the interviews I've seen, he rarely -- if ever -- corrects interviewers who have something slightly wrong. Well, the term "Sinfonietta" can be kind of slippery musical terminology, so it might very well be that the "two symphonies" sometimes referred in biographic notes are indeed the "First Symphony" and the "Sinfonietta for Winds and Percussion". In music history, the title Sinfonietta is used to refer a composition similar to a symphony, but reduced in length and size of the ensemble, or lighter in approach. However, there are full-blown composition like Janacek's Sinfonietta (probably the most famous of them all) which are absolutely comparable to a regular symphony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc 2,674 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Korngold's too. 4 hours ago, Fabulin said: E.T. is John Williams' Symphony CE3K is where he fulfilled his symphonic vision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,504 Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 hour ago, TownerFan said: Well, the term "Sinfonietta" can be kind of slippery musical terminology, so it might very well be that the "two symphonies" sometimes referred in biographic notes are indeed the "First Symphony" and the "Sinfonietta for Winds and Percussion". In music history, the title Sinfonietta is used to refer a composition similar to a symphony, but reduced in length and size of the ensemble, or lighter in approach. However, there are full-blown composition like Janacek's Sinfonietta (probably the most famous of them all) which are absolutely comparable to a regular symphony. Absolutely. Just as several of JW's concert works qualify as 'concerti', even if they don't have the 'concerto' title in them. Oftentimes, the lines are blurry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post karelm 2,913 Posted May 3, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted May 3, 2019 If anyone is interested, spoke with David Cripps from the LSO if he recalled playing John William's Symphony. I thought for sure he would say no but he said "Oh yes, remember playing it with Andre Previn. John T. Williams as he was called then, to differentiate from the better known (in those days) guitarist, John Williams, was there. Previn conducted the rehearsal and they had a few words after but Williams left it to Previn." So it seems we have eyewitness memory that the 1972 LSO concert of Williams' Symphony did in fact happen and was memorable enough to remember the rehearsal and subsequent concert at Covenant Garden (I think he said) but sadly, he didn't recall what it sounded like because they were playing new music all the time and JW wasn't famous yet. Previn was actually far more famous as both film composer and conductor so it makes sense that JW would rely on Previn's interpretation and performance. Maybe someone can reach out to the archivist to see if the concert was recorded or if program notes might provide more info. David was a bit surprised there is no score available and no subsequent performance but it seems the 1972 concert performance of Johnny's Symphony did infact happen. I wonder if Gramaphone magazine has a concert review from that time. Cerebral Cortex, Remco, Jay and 7 others 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,074 Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 I wonder if @Omen II is able to shed some more light on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 On 5/3/2019 at 9:03 PM, karelm said: If anyone is interested, spoke with David Cripps from the LSO if he recalled playing John William's Symphony. I thought for sure he would say no but he said "Oh yes, remember playing it with Andre Previn. John T. Williams as he was called then, to differentiate from the better known (in those days) guitarist, John Williams, was there. Previn conducted the rehearsal and they had a few words after but Williams left it to Previn." So it seems we have eyewitness memory that the 1972 LSO concert of Williams' Symphony did in fact happen and was memorable enough to remember the rehearsal and subsequent concert at Covenant Garden (I think he said) but sadly, he didn't recall what it sounded like because they were playing new music all the time and JW wasn't famous yet. Previn was actually far more famous as both film composer and conductor so it makes sense that JW would rely on Previn's interpretation and performance. Maybe someone can reach out to the archivist to see if the concert was recorded or if program notes might provide more info. David was a bit surprised there is no score available and no subsequent performance but it seems the 1972 concert performance of Johnny's Symphony did infact happen. I wonder if Gramaphone magazine has a concert review from that time. Thanks for these insights, karelm! It's always great to hear from people who have a first-hand account. Btw, check your PMs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omen II 1,235 Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 On 5/3/2019 at 8:03 PM, karelm said: So it seems we have eyewitness memory that the 1972 LSO concert of Williams' Symphony did in fact happen and was memorable enough to remember the rehearsal and subsequent concert at Covenant Garden (I think he said) but sadly, he didn't recall what it sounded like because they were playing new music all the time and JW wasn't famous yet. As Maurizio mentions earlier in this thread, John Williams speaks in Steven C. Smith's excellent Bernard Herrmann biography A Heart at Fire's Center about the London performance of his symphony and clearly refers to the concert having taken place at the Royal Festival Hall in 1972. Williams spoke to the author in 1984, so close enough to the date to make it unlikely that he would have misremembered the venue. As the Royal Festival Hall is on London's south bank, I wonder if the reference to Covent Garden could be the rehearsal venue? Kingsway Hall, where Charles Gerhardt recorded most of his classic film scores series, was a popular venue for concerts, rehearsals and recordings throughout the 1970s and was located just off Kingsway between Covent Garden and Holborn. The building was demolished in the late 1990s and is now the site of a hotel bearing the same name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karelm 2,913 Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 2 hours ago, Omen II said: As Maurizio mentions earlier in this thread, John Williams speaks in Steven C. Smith's excellent Bernard Herrmann biography A Heart at Fire's Center about the London performance of his symphony and clearly refers to the concert having taken place at the Royal Festival Hall in 1972. Williams spoke to the author in 1984, so close enough to the date to make it unlikely that he would have misremembered the venue. As the Royal Festival Hall is on London's south bank, I wonder if the reference to Covent Garden could be the rehearsal venue? Kingsway Hall, where Charles Gerhardt recorded most of his classic film scores series, was a popular venue for concerts, rehearsals and recordings throughout the 1970s and was located just off Kingsway between Covent Garden and Holborn. The building was demolished in the late 1990s and is now the site of a hotel bearing the same name. Thanks for correcting me on the venue, I did forget which one it was but was sure it wasn't the Royal Albert Hall. It was me who forget which venue it was not him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Harald 16 Posted May 6, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted May 6, 2019 The symphony has actually been performed three times. I found a concert review in The Guardian from July 10 1972, and the LSO and Previn performed the symphony in Nottingham, the day after the London performance. Gurkensalat, SteveMc, Timo Martikainen and 11 others 12 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,074 Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 Great find, @Harald, and welcome to the forum! Are you by any chance Norwegian? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harald 16 Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 Yes, I'm Norwegian:) I have been reading the forum for years, but never posted anything and just joined the forum now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,074 Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 Good, we need more. Watch out for @Thor, another fellow Norwegian! Harald, may I ask where you live? I live in Trondheim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Illustrious Jerry 3,356 Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 Welcome @Harald! Thanks for posting the article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harald 16 Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 Thank you, good to be here! The Illustrious Jerry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayesian 1,363 Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 7 minutes ago, Harald said: Yes, I'm Norwegian:) I have been reading the forum for years, but never posted anything and just joined the forum now. This surely has to be one of the best ever first posts here! Thanks for the article; reading it makes me want to hear the symphony all the more now. I really hope JW will revisit it one day and let it come out. 🙏🏻 SteveMc and Harald 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,504 Posted May 6, 2019 Author Share Posted May 6, 2019 Harald and I have communicated by e-mail before. But good to see you here, mate! And yes, that's a great article. I seem to remember you have access to this newspaper archive service. Harald 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harald 16 Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 @Jurassic Shark, I live in Risør, on the southern coast. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,074 Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 I wonder if archival recordings exists of any of the three concert performances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harald 16 Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 @Thor, yes we have been in touch a couple of times earlier. Yes, I found the review in a newspaper archive that I subscribe to (newspapers.com). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,074 Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 2 minutes ago, Harald said: @Jurassic Shark, I live in Risør, on the southern coast. Still better than Oslo! Harald 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Andrade 1,263 Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 Thank you @Harald Wonderful find! Harald 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Omen II 1,235 Posted May 13, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted May 13, 2019 On 5/4/2019 at 5:50 PM, Jurassic Shark said: I wonder if @Omen II is able to shed some more light on this. I'll try! Libby at the LSO has very kindly taken the time to furnish me with some fascinating information about the performance of John Williams's symphony from the LSO archives. Firstly a slight correction to @Harald's post in that the Nottingham performance was actually the day before the London concert and was therefore the first UK performance of the symphony in its extensively revised version. The London concert took place at the Royal Festival Hall the following day on Sunday 9th July 1972 at 7:30 p.m. The programme was as follows: Ralph Vaughan Williams - The Wasps: Overture Jean Sibelius - Violin Concerto (soloist: Kyung Wha Chung) Interval John T. Williams - Symphony No. 1 (first performance in London) Allegro Andante sostenuto Maestoso : Allegro : Risoluto Manuel de Falla - Three-Cornered Hat: Dances The programme notes were written by music critic Denby Richards (father of the actor Gavin Richards who played Captain Bertorelli in 'Allo 'Allo ). Here is an extract of the most relevant parts of the programme notes: Quote The First Symphony was premiered in 1966 by the Houston Symphony Orchestra, conducted by André Previn. Since then, however, the composer has revised the work extensively, and the two performances by the London Symphony Orchestra - at the opening concert of the 1972 Nottingham Festival on July 8 and tonight's performance - are the first hearings of the revised version. As in the Essay there is a strong element of chromaticism, which influences both the texture and character of the symphony. The work is scored for the conventional large orchestra, including four percussion players, as well as a harp, celeste and piano. It is in three movements. The composer has commented: "Since science fails to provide all of modern life's solutions, I prefer, like Robert Graves, to believe in myths...at least where music is concerned. My music contains no truisms of numerical relationship nor any other scientific 'conceit.' My first symphony was composed in 1966, partly because of a life long affection for the orchestra as a medium of expression and partly because of my admiration for the vital and energetic qualities of my friend, André Previn. The first of the work's three movements is worked out on two basic themes, in simple metres of three and four, respectively. The second movement has jazz as its inspiration and features a flute solo written somewhat in the style of the late Eric Dolphy. The third movement features a fugato based on intervallic material taken from the first movement and proceeds through a parody waltz to the work's conclusion." Happy now? karelm, Thor, Harald and 4 others 4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,074 Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 26 minutes ago, Omen II said: Happy now? Happy indeed! Now, if you just can use your contacts at the LSO to get a copy of the archival recording... filmmusic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,504 Posted May 13, 2019 Author Share Posted May 13, 2019 I still don't believe we'll get to see or hear the symphony in any foreseeable future, but between Harald and Omen's posts, we certainly know a fair bit more about it. Thanks for sharing, guys! Omen II 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,074 Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 I'm wondering how much I'd actually like listening to the symphony if it ever gets released. Being an early work of his, it probably sounds quite "modern" or inaccessible such as the Sinfonietta and early concerts, and judging by the above review, the outer movements will quite possibly disappoint. Hopefully, the middle movement is a gem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,511 Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 . bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,504 Posted September 8, 2019 Author Share Posted September 8, 2019 Ha, ha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherSound 2,242 Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 I noticed this 1990 Boston Globe interview references a poster for the symphony in his living room: Quote also prominent is a poster announcing the premiere of the First Symphony by John T. Williams, under the direction of Andre Previn. Will and SteveMc 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayesian 1,363 Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 I reckon I'd enjoy possessing, or at least gazing upon, such a poster. Nothing turns up on Google though.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherSound 2,242 Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 On 9/8/2019 at 8:56 PM, Bayesian said: I reckon I'd enjoy possessing, or at least gazing upon, such a poster. Nothing turns up on Google though.. Say, @Omen II, any chance the LSO has that poster design in their archives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc 2,674 Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 7 minutes ago, BrotherSound said: Say, @Omen II, any chance the LSO has that poster design in their archives? It could be the poster for the Houston premiere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,504 Posted September 9, 2019 Author Share Posted September 9, 2019 10 hours ago, BrotherSound said: I noticed this 1990 Boston Globe interview references a poster for the symphony in his living room: So he's proud enough to display it on a poster, but not enough to record it for everyone else's enjoyment? Egotistical bastard! Bayesian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,074 Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 He probably wrote it for himself, and doesn't want it tainted by our filthy ears! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherSound 2,242 Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 23 hours ago, SteveMc said: It could be the poster for the Houston premiere. Oh, didn’t realize Previn conducted that one, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitch 57 Posted April 5, 2021 Share Posted April 5, 2021 We can only hope that Leonard Slatkin and the Detroit Symphony Orchestra will record JW's First Symphony together with the remaining concerti under the NAXOS label (come on get a move on with the Clarinet and Trumpet concertos)!!!! SteveMc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,504 Posted April 5, 2021 Author Share Posted April 5, 2021 Doubtful. I don't think we will hear it in Williams' lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rough cut 1,714 Posted April 5, 2021 Share Posted April 5, 2021 One can only dream that, if Williams now is retired from writing film music, that he revisits this. Who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt S. 493 Posted April 5, 2021 Share Posted April 5, 2021 Or even better: he could compose a new symphony! Jurassic Shark and SteveMc 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,074 Posted April 5, 2021 Share Posted April 5, 2021 55 minutes ago, Matt S. said: Or even better: he could compose a new symphony! That would be nice. Joni Wiljami 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted April 5, 2021 Share Posted April 5, 2021 Nice. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Andrade 1,263 Posted April 5, 2021 Share Posted April 5, 2021 7 hours ago, Hitch said: We can only hope that Leonard Slatkin and the Detroit Symphony Orchestra will record JW's First Symphony together with the remaining concerti under the NAXOS label (come on get a move on with the Clarinet and Trumpet concertos)!!!! The Trumpet one has been already recorded, but the performance had some obvious issues (they are all live recordings) and it's the probable reason for no release so far. They also recorded the Oboe Concerto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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