Jay 37,346 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 You're not supposed to recognize the themes of a film's score the first time you see a movie. You're just supposed to enjoy the film, take everything in. Enjoying the score can come later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComposerEthan 8 Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 True, true, but I have OCD/obsession-esque stuff, and I tend to analyze the film entirely while I watch it..I should learn to give my mind a rest.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry B 50 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Hey, man, I can recognize themes if I want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 True, true, but I have OCD/obsession-esque stuff, and I tend to analyze the film entirely while I watch it..I should learn to give my mind a rest.. You might enjoy films more that way. While you can analyze a film any time you watch it, you ONLY get a chance to see a film for the first time ONCE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUMENKOHL 1,068 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Wrong. I've been a huge fan of thematic association and the leitmotivic style of Star Wars since... well, since Star Wars was released (1977), and I'm definitely NOT a fan (not to mention a 'huge' fan) of Howard Shore's Lord of the Rings. And I'm certainly no exception.Your sentiment towards Shore's work on the trilogy is just as preposterous as KK's logic! Dixon Hill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 No, MSM. Ricard's just simply right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUMENKOHL 1,068 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 No, MSM. Richard's just simply right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 If you're a big fan of thematic association and the leitmotivic style of Star Wars, you'll be a huge fan of Howard Shore's magnum opus for the Lord of the Rings. Wrong. I've been a huge fan of thematic association and the leitmotivic style of Star Wars since... well, since Star Wars was released (1977), and I'm definitely NOT a fan (not to mention a 'huge' fan) of Howard Shore's Lord of the Rings. And I'm certainly no exception.Sorry for the long blabbering, you can tell I'm quite a fan Just don't assume that everyone else is.Point taken, although I never presumed that everyone here loved Lord of the Rings (I know there are many who are not very fond of the films or the music) but since I got the impression that Ethan was into thematic driven scores, he might find something to enjoy in the LOTR scores. A little introduction to a popular set of scores (regardless of what people think of them) does no harm, right?You'll have to excuse my enthusiasm over certain scores, I acknowledge it can be overbearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I've been a huge fan of thematic association and the leitmotivic style of Star Wars since... well, since Star Wars was released (1977), and I'm definitely NOT a fan (not to mention a 'huge' fan) of Howard Shore's Lord of the Rings. And I'm certainly no exception.I enjoy both, but I definately lean more towards Shore's Rings these days.I can only really listen to Star Wars and still love it. TESB and ROTJ are just too much Star Wars for someone like me who has fallen out of love with the franchise. That's not to say I no longer consider them to be masterful; I'm just tired of the music in those two movies, but I'll probably return to them eventually, in a decade or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 8:55 - 9:05 of "The Lighting Of The Beacons" do more for me than the Star Wars opening fanfare. Dixon Hill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,346 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 The star wars main title does more for me anything from The Prince of Egypt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricard 2,245 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 8:55 - 9:05 of "The Lighting Of The Beacons" do more for me than the Star Wars opening fanfare.Oh My God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Exactly what I thought when I heard it the first time. Dixon Hill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brónach 1,302 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I prefer the Star Wars music, even though I find LotR easier to listen to. I got into both more or less at the same time. First in the films, then crappy downloads without knowing what was what, then got a better knowledge of the music, and etc etc until now.Exactly what I thought when I heard it the first time.Isn't that like a single chord? Don't remember it well now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,346 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I got into Star Wars first, They are two different types of trilogy scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 True. One is simply better. Dixon Hill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUMENKOHL 1,068 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I prefer the Star Wars music, even though I find LotR easier to listen to.WHAT?! Star Wars is a waaaaay easier listen. Just by quantity alone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Star Wars is a mess sometimes. Too many notes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brónach 1,302 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I prefer the Star Wars music, even though I find LotR easier to listen to.WHAT?!Star Wars is a waaaaay easier listen. Just by quantity alone!Because Star Wars is loud and exciting and with many notes and Williamsesque musical effects and I really have to be in the mood and pay attention.When that happens, not very often, I find it incredibly rewarding. LotR is like... background music. Wait, that came out wrong. It's more ethereal, it's less aggresive on the ear, less enthusiastically childish, entire passages can come and go without myself realizing it. Which turns out to be extremely enjoyable if I happen to pay attention to it. I can play it at any time.Quantity doesn't have anything to do with it (I actually prefer long scores to get lost in, for some reason). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricard 2,245 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Exactly what I thought when I heard it the first time. Star Wars is a mess sometimes. Too many notes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUMENKOHL 1,068 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I wouldn't characterize Lord of the Rings as background music. It rarely seeps into the background for me. But it is definitely a smoother listen than Star Wars OT.I still say Star Wars OT is an easier listen.I go back and forth about which ones I prefer musically. The only hard and fast rule I have is that I would rather listen to Star Wars (or what you kids refer to as ANH) over all of the others. The trilogies as a whole, I flip flop back and forth over which is better. Both trilogies are very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Both Star Wars and Lord of the Rings are amazing musical trilogies. And "having too many notes" doesn't seem like a very valid argument to dismiss Star Wars. Although I get that Williams music for that trilogy is more hyperacive in a sense that LOTR is not (Because the former trilogy demands that kind of music).The Star Wars trilogy as a whole (if it were one score) is my third favourite score of all time (I usually put all three together as one score when I list my top 10), preceded by Williams' heartbreaking Schindler's List and Lord of the Rings. I personally enjoy LOTR more, but thats me. Both scores are fascinating thematic works that have never failed to entertain me. I just personally enjoy the more archaic fantasy sound of LOTR. And it since Shore had more time with this trilogy, the thematic maturation is more planned out (and thematic development has always been something I've loved). Again, both trilogies are fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Exactly what I thought when I heard it the first time. Star Wars is a mess sometimes. Too many notes. It's so much fun sometimes pushing a Star Wars fan's button. Dixon Hill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricard 2,245 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 FYI, I'm not a Star Wars fan.I know that's hard to understand for a LOTR fanboy, but you don't have to be a fan of the films to enjoy the music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 The Star Wars trilogy easily beats LotR trilogy music on a consistently listenable level, but I tend to cherry pick what I want out of the vast EEs of LotR anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,684 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 For me, the LotR trilogy is only let down by parts of RotK, which ventures into filler territory sometimes, and as mentioned in other threads, feels like several scores pushed together, with the time crunch at the end foiling Shore's efforts to mesh them.I've never seen ESB or RotJ (yeah, I know, get over it... I don't like Star Wars) but I'm guessing they have a more streamlined story and that thematic and stylistic continuity was easier for Williams to achieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComposerEthan 8 Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 Or maybe Williams is just better. HAHA. Any other composers' styles worth mentioning? Unlike that other thread, this is not unique things to WIlliams, this is just comparing him to others, perhaps something he doesn't do that others do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salacius 7 Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Very simple, Williams: 300 hundred years of musical orchestral evolution, being respectfully studied and evolved with own style via complex musicality, respect for complex integrity.Modern composers: Hans Zimmer Wannabe’s-Mac-Logic-east West-Hollywood Strings driven unable to anti-gravitate from one key moronic composers.I rest my case.Or maybe Williams is just better. HAHA.Any other composers' styles worth mentioning?Unlike that other thread, this is not unique things to WIlliams, this is just comparing him to others, perhaps something he doesn't do that others do? Write shit music?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricard 2,245 Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Very simple, Williams: 300 hundred years of musical orchestral evolution, being respectfully studied and evolved with own style via complex musicality, respect for complex integrity.Modern composers: Hans Zimmer Wannabe’s-Mac-Logic-east West-Hollywood Strings driven unable to anti-gravitate from one key moronic composers.I rest my case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComposerEthan 8 Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 Very simple, Williams: 300 hundred years of musical orchestral evolution, being respectfully studied and evolved with own style via complex musicality, respect for complex integrity.Modern composers: Hans Zimmer Wannabe’s-Mac-Logic-east West-Hollywood Strings driven unable to anti-gravitate from one key moronic composers.I rest my case.Or maybe Williams is just better. HAHA.Any other composers' styles worth mentioning?Unlike that other thread, this is not unique things to WIlliams, this is just comparing him to others, perhaps something he doesn't do that others do? Write shit music??Anyone else notice that Zimmer always writes in D? Even his Zimmer-clones do it.It makes it so easy to play their music by ear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck 154 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Well it's not that I'm ignorant, I've just never seen Alien, Air Force One, or any films Goldsmith has done (my parents never showed me any, or we never had any around the house) so that's why I've never been drawn to Goldsmith. Williams, however, has been in my household since...forever, so I automatically felt a need to research him and listen more!Anyone care to describe Goldsmith (and the others out there, besides Zimmer clones) for me?Also, am I the youngest in the website? It makes me feel a little (forgive me)..nerdy for being here.Here's a site that has an excellent Goldsmith samples. Enjoy!!!http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/AwesomeMusic/JerryGoldsmith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Personally, I find that John Williams has an extreme ability to keep the pace of a piece, and the change of it, over all sections of the orchestra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF1_freeze 131 Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Another imporant distinction is JW is a very patient, diligent worker in his musical material. I'm certain for any of his scores, he worked to really flush out the possibilities of the material before working on the score. Zimmer, in contrast, just has the feel of being a product...it is rushed and mass produced. It is an idea just not flushed out but already handed off to co-composers and arrangers.This can be summed up by saying Zimmer and clones have a rather limited "bag of tricks" that gets reused across projects.Zimmer and clones: Need to escalate the drama? Increase the volume.Need more drama? Modulate up a half step.Need more drama? Add 6 more horns to the melody...and repeat this until the desired intensity level has been achieved.The last year and a half with Man of Steel and Dark Night Rises this is exactly what happened. Loudness wars in atrocious bland and simple scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karelm 2,912 Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Another imporant distinction is JW is a very patient, diligent worker in his musical material. I'm certain for any of his scores, he worked to really flush out the possibilities of the material before working on the score. Zimmer, in contrast, just has the feel of being a product...it is rushed and mass produced. It is an idea just not flushed out but already handed off to co-composers and arrangers.This can be summed up by saying Zimmer and clones have a rather limited "bag of tricks" that gets reused across projects.Zimmer and clones: Need to escalate the drama? Increase the volume.Need more drama? Modulate up a half step.Need more drama? Add 6 more horns to the melody...and repeat this until the desired intensity level has been achieved.The last year and a half with Man of Steel and Dark Night Rises this is exactly what happened. Loudness wars in atrocious bland and simple scores.I guess I'm a prophet. Nah, this is predictable stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisAfonso 186 Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 Watch out! A Zombie thread!Why does it take me until the penultimate post to realize this is not a current discussion? Regarding the Star Wars vs. LotR debate, you could liken it to a detailed and colorful illustration on the one side versus a mood painting done in big-brushed broad strokes on the other (until the counterpoint-busy parts in RotK kick in). Stylistically, it would be more fitting to compare the style of, say, War Horse with that of LotR, although at the end it always comes down to a different personal style, background, and sensibility.Nothing new here, carry on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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