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La-La Land Records' HOOK (2CD Expanded) Anticipation thread


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La La Land Records = Label of the Year 2012. Everyone else, just pack it up. Nothing more to see here. WOW!!!!!

This is mostly for posterity but for those looking through old threads on this score, if you are looking for the 2012 Tim Burden Movie Magic Hook Special in which he talks with the boys at LaLa

For this one we are just putting up the cover art and the order button -- that's it. wink.gif

MV

http://filmscoremont...87049&archive=0

This comment was made before the interview was put up. Not sure if he was joking since there is a wink symbol, I'm sure he was. But if he wasn't I hope he changes his mind now, even though we all know we are all going to buy it either way. We should still know what we are really buying before we get it, and I'd like to know what to expect. Is that wrong? lol.

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If you don't like how LLL, Sony and Williams are releasing this score, then DON'T BUY IT. It's simple as that.

Amen!

Besides, those who complain about it not being complete, it's not like you're gonna regularly listen to every single little cue anyway!

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I think it is perfectly justified to voice a certain degree of dissapointment about the non completeness of the release. But nevertheless i think everyone still is more than happy to finally get most of the unreleased gems from the score.

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I understand and respect the sentiment of wanting every note and, in case of Williams scores, I'm the first that want to listen to everything. But what I don't understand is the behaviour of some people who feel that they're entitled to eveything and react like they're being robbed. I don't know, the world is full of weird people, but the fact I grew up listening to severly truncated OST albums and learning to love them for what they are taught me that I should welcome with joy and happiness any kind of expansion we're given, no matter how incomplete.

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Didn't I say "we all know we are going to buy it either way"? That included me in that phrase, so that means I am getting this no matter what, since no matter what it will be much better than the OST and any of the boots we currently see out there. All I am asking for is to know what I am getting before I actually pay for it, which LLL does do with all their other releases, so it'd be a shame if they didn't do it with this one. Again, is that so wrong to ask? lol.

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Anybody here speak French? I know a bit, but not enough to decipher a questionable translation. What is the meaning of the word "ton" in the following passage? JWFan translates it as "tune," FreeTranslation.com translates it as "tune," but neither meanings seem quite right.

"Il a fait quelques suggestions, il a demandé que certains morceaux qui étaient répétitifs soient éliminés, il a exclu des morceaux qui n’étaient pas dans le ton comme Take Me Out To The Ballgame… Bref, il a recréé la bande sonore telle qu’on l’entend sur ce double disque."

Could someone provide a more accurate translation? The one I posted on the main page is based on Google's translator.

Thanks.

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I think it is perfectly justified to voice a certain degree of dissapointment about the non completeness of the release. But nevertheless i think everyone still is more than happy to finally get most of the unreleased gems from the score.

Yes, I agree.

To be disappointed is natural, even understandable. Hell, I am too!

But some people here are just greedy and moronic idiots, way out of line and probably dissatisfied about all and everything, all their lives... and not just about some missing cues on an Expanded Soundtrack Album!

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Just because certain people have different expectations of a score's presentation doesn't make us idiots. It's just a preference. Clearly you don't have to agree with it.

Did you read every post here? If yes, you would know what I mean.

And I just wrote that I am disappointed too...

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Could someone provide a more accurate translation? The one I posted on the main page is based on Google's translator.

The translation is good. I just translated it by myself and came to the same thing.

Mourceaux could also be "bits" or "snippets", depending on how optimistic you want the translation. Heheh.

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Anybody here speak French? I know a bit, but not enough to decipher a questionable translation. What is the meaning of the word "ton" in the following passage? JWFan translates it as "tune," FreeTranslation.com translates it as "tune," but neither meanings seem quite right.

"Il a fait quelques suggestions, il a demandé que certains morceaux qui étaient répétitifs soient éliminés, il a exclu des morceaux qui n’étaient pas dans le ton comme Take Me Out To The Ballgame… Bref, il a recréé la bande sonore telle qu’on l’entend sur ce double disque."

Could someone provide a more accurate translation? The one I posted on the main page is based on Google's translator.

Thanks.

"[Williams] made some suggestions and asked that some excerpts that were redundant would be eliminated. He also excluded cues that weren't in tone [with the rest of the score], like Take Me Out to the Ball Game. To make long story short, he made the soundtrack you'll listen on this double disc."

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Didn't I say "we all know we are going to buy it either way"? That included me in that phrase, so that means I am getting this no matter what, since no matter what it will be much better than the OST and any of the boots we currently see out there. All I am asking for is to know what I am getting before I actually pay for it, which LLL does do with all their other releases, so it'd be a shame if they didn't do it with this one. Again, is that so wrong to ask? lol.

I wasn't referring to you directly, sorry. I'm sure LLL will reveal the tracklist with durations before the title will go on sale as they usually do.

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I think we have had this conversation quite a number of times before. I know it is difficult to step into someone else's shoes and try to find validity in the opposite view. I am an adult and can handle disappointments, I know we cannot say we are entitled to anything when it comes to our beloved music (or just about anything in the world) and I know that artists often have varying views on the worth of their own work that can differ radically from the appreciation their fans heap upon it. I also like to think positively and not dwell on the negative. Still I am a tad miffed by the recent news and am afraid that something significant has been nixed from the Hook release. This does not mean that I won't enjoy the expanded release though. Far from it. It is just the pedantic perfectionist in me that says "If you are going to release this music, do it comprehensively and for all time so there is no need for any further releases".

On the other hand the preservationist in me is happy that the music of Hook has been transferred to digital realms from the tapes, rescued and preserved. And then I as a huge fan of the music am a bit sad we won't get to hear all of it. But perhaps the patience we have been adhering to thusfar would be good advice before making too hasty jumps to conclusions and falling into despair until we see what this set truly contains.

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I think we have had this conversation quite a number of times before. I know it is difficult to step into someone else's shoes and try to find validity in the opposite view. I am an adult and can handle disappointments, I know we cannot say we are entitled to anything when it comes to our beloved music (or just about anything in the world) and I know that artists often have varying views on the worth of their own work that can differ radically from the appreciation their fans heap up it. I also like to think positively and not dwell on the negative. Still I am a tad miffed by the recent news and am afraid that something significant has been nixed from the Hook release.

On the other hand the preservationist in me is happy that the music of Hook has been transferred to digital realms from the tapes, rescued and preserved. And then I as a huge fan of the music am a bit sad we won't get to hear all of it. But perhaps the patience we have been adhering to thusfar would be good advice before making too hasty jumps to conclusions and falling into despair until we see what this set truly contains.

Exactly all of this. Tharkûn has spoken.

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I think we have had this conversation quite a number of times before. I know it is difficult to step into someone else's shoes and try to find validity in the opposite view. I am an adult and can handle disappointments, I know we cannot say we are entitled to anything when it comes to our beloved music (or just about anything in the world) and I know that artists often have varying views on the worth of their own work that can differ radically from the appreciation their fans heap up it. I also like to think positively and not dwell on the negative. Still I am a tad miffed by the recent news and am afraid that something significant has been nixed from the Hook release. This does not mean that I won't enjoy the expanded release though. Far from it. It is just the pedantic perfectionist in me that says "If you are going to release this music, do it comprehensively and for all time so there is no need for any further releases".

On the other hand the preservationist in me is happy that the music of Hook has been transferred to digital realms from the tapes, rescued and preserved. And then I as a huge fan of the music am a bit sad we won't get to hear all of it. But perhaps the patience we have been adhering to thusfar would be good advice before making too hasty jumps to conclusions and falling into despair until we see what this set truly contains.

Again, how much music can be missing?

It's a 2-CD release... We are getting (almost) 74 minutes of unreleased music at least!!! People seem to forget that. The Expanded Indiana Jones scores, by comparison, had only 1 CD for each movie, plus a few tracks on the extra bonus CD.

I am all but certain only minor cues and source music are missing...

_____________

Bottom line for me:

I would have preferred a COMPLETE edition, too, of course, but since it is John Williams himself who didn't want some cues included, for whatever reason, I accept his wishes. (Same like Spielberg refusing some scenes to be included in the Deleted Scenes section of the DVD, and nobody complains about that!) If it had been anybody else, then I would have been mad as hell, no question about that!

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If that ball game cue was on there i would have skipped it every time anyway. And there are certain cues that feel a bit samey. Remember this was a score that JW did in a rush, so there are probably a few things that he wished he could have done differently if he had a bit more time.

I guess it's standard practice for a label to send a copy to the composer (in the case he is still living) and get his approval.

If this is true then JW usually seems fine with the complete score being released. (Home Alone, The Fury, 1941, Black Sunday, and many...many others). So if for Hook he suggested that some things be changed then it's because he genuinely felt it would improve the way HIS score would be presented.

I can only respect that.

No major cues will be missing I'm sure.

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Of course he hasn't.

There was a short interview either on Ricard's site or another one years and years ago were Williams commented on the Rhino Superman release. I wonder if that is still around somewhere.

He said something about that a complete score release are only interesting for hard core film music fans. stating that his Superman OST sold far more copies then the Rhino 2 CD set did.

When Williams cuts his album, he does so with the average listener in mind, not completists.

He's always considered the score in the film and the score on album as 2 different things (that's why orchestrators are credited in the film, but hardly ever on his OST albums).

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I think we have had this conversation quite a number of times before. I know it is difficult to step into someone else's shoes and try to find validity in the opposite view. I am an adult and can handle disappointments, I know we cannot say we are entitled to anything when it comes to our beloved music (or just about anything in the world) and I know that artists often have varying views on the worth of their own work that can differ radically from the appreciation their fans heap up it. I also like to think positively and not dwell on the negative. Still I am a tad miffed by the recent news and am afraid that something significant has been nixed from the Hook release.

On the other hand the preservationist in me is happy that the music of Hook has been transferred to digital realms from the tapes, rescued and preserved. And then I as a huge fan of the music am a bit sad we won't get to hear all of it. But perhaps the patience we have been adhering to thusfar would be good advice before making too hasty jumps to conclusions and falling into despair until we see what this set truly contains.

Exactly all of this. Tharkûn has spoken.

Mikko is always the Voice of Reason here :)

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josh...2 cds does not mean full capacity... we could be getting two 45 min cds... ;)

btw in case people forgot, this williams sentiment is responsible fo lukas kendall not being able to release sugarland express, a score wuith no official release ever. i definately CANT agree with williams on that.

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I can see it through JW's eyes too!

We completists want every single note recorded, period, but for JW some cues might be embarrassing to him... or maybe he thinks he hasn't done that good a job as he might have done! Who knows, maybe he even regrets not having done a better job (due to time pressure, etc.) I can understand and respect that.

And it's not like even the completists here adore every single note JW releases, anyway! Far from it. Just consider the way some bash KotCS for instance, or CoS and AotC, for that matter!

josh...2 cds does not mean full capacity... we could be getting two 45 min cds... ;)

No, that's why I said "almost." But we can rule out 45 minutes, I think! This is La-La Land after all!

At the worst 60 minutes, I'd say. ;)

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I guess it's standard practice for a label to send a copy to the composer (in the case he is still living) and get his approval.

If this is true then JW usually seems fine with the complete score being released. (Home Alone, The Fury, 1941, Black Sunday, and many...many others). So if for Hook he suggested that some things be changed then it's because he genuinely felt it would improve the way HIS score would be presented.

Yes, very likely. I also guess he has works of his own he feels more affectionate and caring about, hence why he asks to be involved more directly. Of course any label could ignore his input, but I think nobody wants to make something he doesn't feel good about.

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Yes Manuel. John Williams doesn't want you to hear something. He is the anti-christ!

How can you defend Lucas' changes every time, but bash Williams?

Sugarland is a weird one. I have never seen the film or heard the score,apart from the theme.

Maybe Williams genuinely isn't happy with what he did. Maybe he thinks it's too different from his other works with the same director. I dunno. Maybe he feels that people will be a bit let down by it because it's the score that started the Spielberg/Williams relationship, and it's not that remarkable.

Who knows. But he's the author

I guess he has works of his own he feels more affectionate and caring about, hence why he asks to be involved more directly. Of course any label could ignore his input, but I think nobody wants to make something he doesn't feel good about.

Hook maybe a score that he has some more personal feelings for then some of his others. It was certainly an unusual experience for him.

And anyone here, if they were in the business of record producing,and they got a letter from John Williams suggesting a few changes would honestly say they would ignore it?

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If they did that, I am pretty sure they wouldn't be doing business with JW much longer!

They don't do business with Williams. They do business with the studios. they own the rights, not JW.

Well, sure, but indirectly they are involved with JW.

JW might express his wish that the studio NOT do any business with the record company that displeased him, for instance, and go with another...

Oh yes, JW has some clout in the matter, no doubt about that!

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If Williams nixed cues, i guess we pretty much can say goodbye to some alternates, so i hope the sugar-cute insert in NEVER-FEAST and similar changes in ULTIMATE WAR will be used by LLL (and maybe Williams didn't realize). If not, it would not be a terrible blow, but somehow unstatisfying all the same.

I guess it's standard practice for a label to send a copy to the composer (in the case he is still living) and get his approval.

FSM never got approval for their Goldsmith albums. They released them, anyway. So i guess you could release a complete Williams without telling him and he certainly wouldn't take notice. I doubt he or his assistants care much about the soundtrack speciality market.

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If Williams nixed cues, i guess we pretty much can say goodbye to some alternates, so i hope the sugar-cute insert in NEVER-FEAST and similar changes in ULTIMATE WAR will be used by LLL (and maybe Williams didn't realize). If not, it would not be a terrible blow, but somehow unstatisfying all the same.

I guess it's standard practice for a label to send a copy to the composer (in the case he is still living) and get his approval.

FSM never got approval for their Goldsmith albums. They released them, anyway. So i guess you could release a complete Williams without telling him and he certainly wouldn't take notice. I doubt he or his assistants care much about the soundtrack speciality market.

Yes the film versions with inserts of both those sequences are amongst my most demanded cues as well.
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Lets put things fuckingly straight.

As someone who sucked George Lucas ass in everything starwars special edition things, but now, thanks to some people here, has seen the light and now is almost part of the opposite POW, i am entitled to say that here i am seeing the same blind love for a public character, whatever wrong his choices may be.

I'm truly a completist of Williams, and i think he is the best film composer ever, so i am somekind blind too, but i dont have to agree to all of his choices, if i think they are wrong.

I for one like and/or appreciate everything he has composed, unlike many people trying to lecture me about how horrendous my comments are, which may dislike half his output. I'm disgusted for the countless of times i have read that he has not composed anything worhty since the 90's.

In this case, Williams assembled his OST in the means he deemed appropiate, to show his best work on the score (i suppose since why the heck would he let them artificially speed up the prologue is beyong comprenhension). That CD was made for the masses. Now a limited edition for a niche market, for people who love his works (wherever he feels uncomfortable or not) he should let the labels release it in the form they think it is best for the customers. I dont think that anyoone buying the set (aside from stefan, who in the past made an expanded edit not omiting anything available...) would complain that everything composed was included in this set.

This is the same as when giacchino ommited eight minutes from MOH Airborne. I hope hook does not have that ammount of material, and not cues as cool as those were.

PS: KOTCS is probably my second favorite indy score and COS is great, i always said that.

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i am entitled to say that here i am seeing the same blind love for a public character, whatever wrong his choices may be.

First of all, we simply don't know if his choices are wrong. We haven't seen the tracklist or heard the CD.

Segundo:

I dont think that anyoone buying the set (aside from stefan, who in the past made an expanded edit not omiting anything available...) would complain that everything composed was included in this set.

I don't understand what you mean by this?

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Segundo:

I dont think that anyoone buying the set (aside from stefan, who in the past made an expanded edit not omiting anything available...) would complain that everything composed was included in this set.

I don't understand what you mean by this?

that you are saying that the score has been repetitive for you since the very beggining, yet you took the effort into making a complete edit.

It just doesnt add now with you defending of eliminated cues in a 'complete' official release.

i am entitled to say that here i am seeing the same blind love for a public character, whatever wrong his choices may be.

First of all, we simply don't know if his choices are wrong. We haven't seen the tracklist or heard the CD.

Everycue part of the main body of the score (including source music, that can be put as bonus tracks at the end) not released is a wrong choice.

Alternates, i dont mind that much. In fact if only alternates are nixxed, i will applaud John Williams (some of them were practically identical) and i will apologize.

If not, i will post here the-one-ring-middle-finger photo.

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Alright, I am breaking my pledge of silence to calm you people down and restore some sanity to this thread.

The only thing missing from this set is some source music and the alternate versions of some cues, and those decisions seem to have been made by Williams himself.

People in this thread are freaking out over nothing. It's a fantastic release.

Now can we wait until the track list gets posted to discuss what is and isn't on it instead of jumping to conclusions?

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There's actually only 2 versions of The Arrival Of Tink. First there was the original version of the cue as heard on the old boots which figured a higher pitched and more "fairy-like" celeste performance. Then they recorded an Insert of just the celeste section at a lower pitch and more "normal" sounding. The cue with the Insert included is what is used in the film and on the OST.

The other "versions" on all the fan edits are simply edits with different sections removed, and different segues to The Flight To Neverland

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Good news Jason, thanks for that.

anyway, in the end 'take me out' is not a williams composition, so good riddance i suppose.

You see people!

Manuel. I DID do a complete edit, and while I was doing it, I noticed how similar most of those alternate versions really were. You don't really need 4 basically identical version of The Arrival of Tink.

we were talking about the repetitive main score in the first posts, anyway.

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Alright, I am breaking my pledge of silence to calm you people down and restore some sanity to this thread.

The only thing missing from this set is some source music and some alternate versions of some cues, and those decisions seem to have been made by Williams himself.

People in this thread are freaking out over nothing. It's a fantastic release.

Now can we wait until the track list gets posted to discuss what is and isn't on it instead of jumping to conclusions?

Thanks for breaking your pledge and calming us down. For the record, when we get the CD and we're all enjoying it, could you tell us what's been dropped? Just for the record?

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