BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 5 minutes ago, Jay said: These decisions are not made by LLL - they're made by Sony. That's important. Either way, maybe that's another reason why it wasn't included in the set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted December 15, 2016 Author Share Posted December 15, 2016 Sony simply wanted to produce a set containing material stored in their official archives, not material emailed to LLL from a fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 Well, Sony are idiots! But hey, what else is new? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 Just now, Jay said: Sony simply wanted to produce a set containing material stored in their official archives, not material emailed to LLL from a fan. Which I think is quite reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,337 Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 But what does it matter where something comes from as long as it sounds good? If you offer me the Cornucopia insert, why would I care whetehr it came from the pope, a 1990 cassette or a 2000 bootleg? Isn't the fact that the bootleg contained material that Sony lost more important? I'll never understand those companies... As for lossless, I am so happy I can be satisfied with 128kbps files. crumbs and Pieter Boelen 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 1 minute ago, bollemanneke said: But what does it matter where something comes from as long as it sounds good? If you offer me the Cornucopia insert, why would I care whetehr it came from the pope, a 1990 cassette or a 2000 bootleg? Isn't the fact that the bootleg contained material that Sony lost more important? I'll never understand those companies... As for lossless, I am so happy I can be satisfied with 128kbps files. It matters to the big companies. Believe me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 And I'm sure LLL would very much prefer to not have to resort to lossy material also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 1 hour ago, Incanus said: Which I think is quite reasonable. Less so if the inference is that they just lost half of the sessions and now want to sell collectors the lackluster result at a full price. Since we thankfully have the bootleg the whole affair is moot but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,337 Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 Okay, so why does it matter? I'm really interested. If Sony says 'yes' to an expanded release, why would anyone even care to nitpick about the origin of material as long as it sounds good? John Doe doesn't care where the music comes from. 1977 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 John Doe generally doesnt buy from LLL, so that argument goes out the window. It's very simple. Sony actually owns the music and can therefore dictate what can and cannot be done with it. It doesnt get any more complicated than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 Plus, it doesn't sound that good. That is the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,337 Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 Sure, but what does Sony GAIN by demanding that bootleg sources aren't used? If I had the choice, I'd use that insert right away on my edition, no doubt about that. Also, it's kind of a pivotal moment in the story as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,625 Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 Hey, were talking about the company that brought us the TPM Ultimate Edition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,671 Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 I think that as soon as you start including bootleg material in an official release, then there's immediately a problem with acknowledging officially where it came from. MM discusses the source materials for both Jurassic expansions. Imagine trying to do that, and have to explain that the centrepiece of the score is from lossy mp3s sent in by a customer. I can see exactly why Sony isn't going to do that. Even for someone like me (a fan of straight talking), boots/session leaks are a really awkward area. Imagine if we got a situation where a fan-provided boot was the only surviving source for an entire score.... it would never see the official light of day. I do agree though, with this, however: 18 hours ago, Selina Kyle said: The bottom line is that Williams should have never been allowed to interfere. I remember La-La Land seemed so proud of his involvement. "Supervised and approved by John Williams!" In those days, that was like a death sentence for a complete score release. I can understand a label being proud that the composer has approved the release, but yeah, in this case, even with someone as persuasive as MM onboard, it's a sign that something, somewhere, has been meddled with. It makes you worry until you've checked all the important bits. Gruesome Son of a Bitch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted December 15, 2016 Author Share Posted December 15, 2016 33 minutes ago, king mark said: Hey, were talking about the company that brought us the TPM Ultimate Edition Actually, we're not. Sony Music and Sony the film studio are completely separate entities, just like UMG and Universal the film studio are. 32 minutes ago, Richard Penna said: I can understand a label being proud that the composer has approved the release, but yeah, in this case, even with someone as persuasive as MM onboard, it's a sign that something, somewhere, has been meddled with. It makes you worry until you've checked all the important bits. MM wasn't involved with Hook. Didier Deutsch produced it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,671 Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 Sorry, didn't word that very well. I meant that even with MM involved generally, the JW approval is still a warning sign. Thankfully he didn't do anything we couldn't undo to JP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted December 15, 2016 Author Share Posted December 15, 2016 Ah, gotcha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,337 Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Leaks are indeed awkward, but then you're making it sound like a certain super important guy might be giving Deutsche the third degree. "Whee did you get that from? Where?!" "From ... because high quality wasn't available." "WHAT?!" I'd rather have decent official-ish scores than incomplete official scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Score_Fan 36 Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 13 hours ago, Jay said: Are you talking about MV's FSM post about the Shirley Walker Batman piano demo? Oops! Appears I was mistaken about that! Good to know that's what it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Why wasn't "The Arrival of Tink and The Flight to Neverland" the album version? We actually lucked out with that one. "The Face of Pan" was different too. The only other stuff of interest here is alternates. Because you know this release is loaded with those, not film versions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Score_Fan 36 Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 I'm just thinking happy thoughts we had all kinds of...erm...releases throughout the years attributed to this score. It's my all-time favorite, and (though I can't fault LLLR for not having the elements), Williams involvement really made what should've been a very special release a very average one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,300 Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 36 minutes ago, Selina Kyle said: Why wasn't "The Arrival of Tink and The Flight to Neverland" the album version? We actually lucked out with that one. "The Face of Pan" was different too. The only other stuff of interest here is alternates. Because you know this release is loaded with those, not film versions. Reminds me of the Indy set, with all those alternates on Temple of Doom. Still annoyed we don't have the film version of To Pankot Palace. Thankfully we could salvage the film version of Map/Out of Fuel from the Lego games, another disaster averted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 10 hours ago, king mark said: Hey, were talking about the company that brought us the TPM Ultimate Edition No, it's not the same company. TPM is Sony Music Entertainment, while Hook was managed and licensed by Sony Pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted December 16, 2016 Author Share Posted December 16, 2016 I said that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Saw it after I posted it, sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Sony Music Entertainment and Sony Pictures are not the same! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,498 Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Both are owned by Sony, so what King Mark said was true...from a certain point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent B 337 Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 By the way if anyone else is curious in more detail regarding the Hook boot that's being talked about in the thread send me a message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Score_Fan 36 Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 Nobody wants to smell Hook's dirty old boot, that codfish! Smeltington 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscarilbo 3 Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Maybe Intrada will rerelease it any time in the future. I mean, look how they lables essentially exchange sold out releases from each other. Now's maybe the turn for another label. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 But three discs this time, please! bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,498 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 There's already a boot with 3 discs, but I have no idea what extra music there is. (edit) er...were we already talking the boot? Oops! Texting while driving, again. I really must stop it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rough cut 1,714 Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 What is this theme in the End Credits that appear at 3:05-4:09? I have been traveling for Easter and included it in a playlist and it’s driving me MAD that I can’t place it.. Granny Wendy... ? No. A portrait of Wendy... ? No... Aaaargh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozmo 13 Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 Arrival of Tink? bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,030 Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 @Fozmo, great avatar! Fozmo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted April 3, 2018 Author Share Posted April 3, 2018 Tinkerbell's theme. Fozmo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rough cut 1,714 Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 I had completely forgotten this theme. It’s lovely. It’s like a something out of Home Alone with a pinch of The Terminal (in the B-phrase) in there. I wish there was a greater expansion of it. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted April 3, 2018 Author Share Posted April 3, 2018 It gets a nice piano variant in the beginning of We Don't Wanna Grow Up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,337 Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 Needs a proper concert arrangement though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted April 3, 2018 Author Share Posted April 3, 2018 That would be swell! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rough cut 1,714 Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 Oh yeah! That’d be sweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post igger6 894 Posted April 3, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted April 3, 2018 Tink's Theme is the unsung hero of that score for me. Every time it plays, I'm seven years old again. I don't know if it's complex enough to support a full suite, but gosh, do I love it whenever it shows up. It also appears in a lovely string-and-woodwind rendition at 6:15 in "Hook Challenges Peter." bollemanneke, Incanus and Jay 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,337 Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 49 minutes ago, igger6 said: Tink's Theme is the unsung hero of that score for me. Every time it plays, I'm seven years old again. I don't know if it's complex enough to support a full suite, but gosh, do I love it whenever it shows up. It also appears in a lovely string-and-woodwind rendition at 6:15 in "Hook Challenges Peter." Agreed! And I'm sure JW would be able to create an engaging suite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 10 hours ago, igger6 said: Tink's Theme is the unsung hero of that score for me. Every time it plays, I'm seven years old again. I don't know if it's complex enough to support a full suite, but gosh, do I love it whenever it shows up. It also appears in a lovely string-and-woodwind rendition at 6:15 in "Hook Challenges Peter." Agreed. Such a pitch perfect little theme for the character. Part playful mischief part pure fairy story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,300 Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 After raising this earlier in the Schindler's List thread, I did some digging on the "lost" Didier C. Deutsch interview in which I vaguely recall he referred to a 'treasure trove' of unreleased goodies from the Hook sessions he wasn't allowed to discuss, but that there was material he'd listened to and sadly couldn't include on the LLL due to licensing or legal issues. I cannot find the exact interview where he stated this, but I did find (care of Google Translator) this interesting interview in which he discusses some of the things that were omitted per Williams' request. Quote How was the content of the double album devoted to Hook selected? I wanted, three or four years ago, to show Hook under the Legacy label. In the end, it did not happen. From an economic point of view, the label is always in fluctuation, according to the demands of the market, and the moment was badly chosen. But I had time to explore all the recording tapes we kept. And to my surprise, I discovered that we really had the full soundtrack of the movie, that is, 21 boxes, each containing 30 to 35 minutes of music! My first job was to protect this material: so we transferred all these soundtracks to digital ... From the moment Michael Gerhard started working with us, Hook was one of the first titles he put on the table and I gave my agreement. The cost of production was huge, fortunately the Columbia came to the rescue. I just went to the studio with my sound engineer, with all the elements exactly in their place, as I had designed the entire music of the film, from beginning to end. So we put on this double disc everything we hear in the movie, including songs that have not been used. Meanwhile, John Williams, through his middlemen, said he wanted to listen to what we had done. He made some suggestions, he asked that certain songs that were repetitive be eliminated, he excluded pieces that were not in the tone like Take Me Out To The Ballgame ... In short, he recreated the soundtrack such as we hear it on this double disc. http://www.underscores.fr/rencontres/interviews/2012/03/entretien-avec-didier-c-deutsch/ Now when he refers to "songs" that were omitted for being repetitive, is this just Google Translate misinterpreting 'cues' or 'tracks', or could he be referring to some of the infamous lost songs that Williams was rumoured to have written for the earlier musical incarnation of Hook? Also, claiming to have the full soundtrack of the movie in those 21 boxes (each containing 35 minutes of music?!) is quite astonishing. What exactly happened here? What elements did they uncover and how did so much music go missing, forcing them to use the film stems for large swathes of the score? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,337 Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Good questions. I'll add mine, bound to be a stupid one: Why did Columbia come to the rescue? Why would they pay for a LLL production? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted June 5, 2019 Author Share Posted June 5, 2019 He likely meant TriStar Pictures, the arm of Sony Pictures that released Hook. TriStar Pictures and Columbia Pictures used to be separate entities but have both been owned by Sony since the 80s bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,300 Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 5 minutes ago, bollemanneke said: Good questions. I'll add mine, bound to be a stupid one: Why did Columbia come to the rescue? Why would they pay for a LLL production? Without checking the sleeve of my LLL Hook, I'm guessing they needed to license existing OST music from Columbia and unreleased music from Sony (mechanical rights and all that complicated stuff Mike often talks about). I can imagine Hook being a pretty complicated score to licence due to the studio shenanigans. Just a cursory glance of the Wikipedia page shows that the studio has faced lots of administrative changes in the decades following the film's release, and the Sony Music branch would be no different. Add to that their decision of stopping third party releases... bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,337 Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Also, is it me or was JW much more involved in the making of this flawed product than in other cases? Does he just trust Mike Matessino much more, does MM have a hard time convincing him to give us these mostly fantastic presentations or was the team behind Hook just not really competent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,287 Posted June 5, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted June 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, crumbs said: Without checking the sleeve of my LLL Hook, I'm guessing they needed to license existing OST music from Columbia and unreleased music from Sony (mechanical rights and all that complicated stuff Mike often talks about). I can imagine Hook being a pretty complicated score to licence due to the studio shenanigans. Just a cursory glance of the Wikipedia page shows that the studio has faced lots of administrative changes in the decades following the film's release, and the Sony Music branch would be no different. Add to that their decision of stopping third party releases... The OST album was released by Epic Records, which eventually became owned by Sony Music (the company that put out the letter saying they will no longer be licensing music they own to specialty labels) 3 minutes ago, bollemanneke said: Also, is it me or was JW much more involved in the making of this flawed product than in other cases? What other cases are you referring to? Quote Does he just trust Mike Matessino much more, Definitely Quote does MM have a hard time convincing him to give us these mostly fantastic presentations Not any more Quote or was the team behind Hook just not really competent? The "team" was basically Didier, who really is less competent than Mike, absolutely. Takis and Bulk did what they could to try fix things, but only so much could be done. Yavar Moradi, crumbs, Holko and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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