La-La Land Records' HOOK (2CD Expanded) Discussion thread

[Wojo 2,453]

How can one assemble (detailed timing) the Williams intended version of the end credits?

Not to sound like that guy, but hasn't Williams already assembled two Hook albums already? Wouldn't what's on those albums be the "Williams intended version?"

[Incanus 5,713]

How can one assemble (detailed timing) the Williams intended version of the end credits?

Not to sound like that guy, but hasn't Williams already assembled two Hook albums already? Wouldn't what's on those albums be the "Williams intended version?"

I guess you could call it "Initial intended version". Jason mentioned that is was supposed to go from the opening segment with the Childhood Theme to the Lost Boys Chase material and then to the Exit Music. But I do not know if the Lost Boys Chase material in the final End Credits is the same Williams intended in the first version of the credits though.

We should have a JW signal so we could call Jason or Mr. Takis to the rescue when such conundrums threaten to boggle our minds.

[Admiral Holdo 16]

I'm neither of them, but maybe I can help (if the Hook scholars don't mind sharing the spotlight )

What you want is:

* End Credits, 0:00 - 1:49 (that last button, when it transitions to the Lost Boy Chase)

* Lost Boy Chase, 0:00 - 2:18 or so (that last beat), or mix in the track whenever you want - either way, you don't want the microedited version that's on the LLL track)

* mix in the pick-up ending from the End Credits track (at about 3:03 on the LLL track), but just before you hear the segment from 'The Arrival of Tink',

* add Exit Music in full.

The final track should come out around 5:50. I experimented with that pick-up beat for the Lost Boy Chase segueing directly into the Exit Music (instead of giving it a moment to breathe, like I detailed above), but it didn't work at all. This is only guesswork, but musically it works.

[Incanus 5,713]

Not bad. Not bad at all. I was not even attempting to compile the initial version of the End Credits since I thought I couldn't properly combine the pieces so that they would musically work. Now I see that it just might. Thanks!

I know that it is a bit small gripe but I wish they would have included a technical note as with both Family Plot and Midway to explain the use of film stems or other problems or obstacles the music hunt had to face, a bit of information which would never have come out if it had not been our Hook experts here. At least that way everyone could know why the Ultimate War has those sound fluctuations and I certainly think that would not scare away anyone from this release but would give a proper explanation and valid reason for them. But I guess they did not want to delve into the technical side of things in the liner notes too much.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

If someone called me a Hook scholar i'd punch him in the face.

[Incanus 5,713]

If someone called me a Hook scholar i'd punch him in the face.

How about a Goldsmith scholar? A tough uppercut to the jaw?

[Admiral Holdo 16]

If someone called me a Hook scholar i'd punch him in the face.

Well, Mr. Hook scholar, we're on two entirely different continents. Best of luck.

[Incanus 5,713]

If someone called me a Hook scholar i'd punch him in the face.

Well, Mr. Hook scholar, we're on two entirely different continents. Best of luck.

Stefan can punch you in the face across the world. His arm has grown long indeed. His shadow now stretches across the Atlantic and Middle-East and all the paths under his shadow are veiled. He is wrath will be terrible, his retribution swift.

[Admiral Holdo 16]

You want to see a long arm, Otis?

[filmmusic 1,823]

I just got mine today,,

well, i consider an important omission in the liner notes the original cue titles (maybe in parentheses) as in other releases..

Of course this maybe isn't due to the author but to JW himself.. I don't know..

[Incanus 5,713]

I just got mine today,,

well, i consider an important omission in the liner notes the original cue titles (maybe in parentheses) as in other releases..

Of course this maybe isn't due to the author but to JW himself.. I don't know..

Isn't that usually more of a FSM thing than LLL anyway? Not that I would have minded meticulous notation on cue titles etc.

[filmmusic 1,823]

in the 1941 release we had the original cue titles (of course that was in the track titles) and in parentheses the slate numbers.

this, at least to me, gives me a better overview of the score as it was composed and of the chronological order of the cues, and what was used and what was not..

[Incanus 5,713]

in the 1941 release we had the original cue titles (of course that was in the track titles) and in parentheses the slate numbers.

this, at least to me, gives me a better overview of the score as it was composed and of the chronological order of the cues, and what was used and what was not..

Oh that's true. But it is up to the writer and producers to decide what they include in the liner notes. And in this case it was obviously decided that such production info was not so important.

On a positive note it has been an absolute blast to hear the unreleased material in this CD quality for the first time. Hook Challenges Peter, all the music from Granny Wendy's house, the pirate music, Hook theme variations etc. Truly remarkable material. And one thing that has struck me more than once is how full of joy, spirit and performance-wise energy and life this score is. Pan's flying theme soaring in Remembering Childhood makes your heart just leap and the celebration in The Banquet and Never Feast is so palpable and sincere it is hard not to be affected. Williams truly captures the joy of childhood with his music.

[Josh500 1,615]

I provided some information that ultimately wasn't used, but I think the best thing I did was recommend John Takis to help out with the project. His contributions absolutely improved the set in numerous different ways.

That's awesome, man!

Imagine your name is on something that JW actually approved!

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

opening the package right now!

will it be cracked?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,713]

opening the package right now!

will it be cracked?

Hmmm I wonder who ever inflamed us all with such panic about cracked cases. Whether the CD case is cracked or not seems to be more exciting than the Hook set itself.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

opening the package right now!

will it be cracked?

Isn't that usually more of a FSM thing than LLL anyway?

[King Mark 3,626]

Is Luke Skywalker 's case cracked?

To be Continued. Next week, same channel

[Incanus 5,713]

opening the package right now!

will it be cracked?

Isn't that usually more of a FSM thing than LLL anyway?

According to Josh, the cracked expert, LLL has much higher cracked case rate per order than SAE. I'll put my cracked team on the job to figure this out once and for all.

Oh I crack myself.

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

nope it isnt!

sorry i took time to answer, i was taking a photo of the package for my classmates, to make a joke...since i had to go out to order it and i had to tell them

funnily some of them loved the film.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Charlie Brigden 7]

"The jewel case was personally approved by John Williams."

[Josh500 1,615]

According to Josh, the cracked expert, LLL has much higher cracked case rate per order than SAE. I'll put my cracked team on the job to figure this out once and for all.

Your brain must be cracked! I never said such thing!

At least 2 of my recent purchases from LLL came with the cases cracked. I never said anything about SAE, and I don't remember anything, so I guess their cases were OK.

"The jewel case was personally approved by John Williams."

This reminds me...

I really liked the jewel case they used for the (European?) version of KotCS! A new design? Anyway, looked really good, I thought!

[King Mark 3,626]

I had a lot of cracked cases.

I have a box full of spare Jewel Cases

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

I really liked the jewel case they used for the (European?) version of KotCS! A new design? Anyway, looked really good, I thought!

i didnt, it does not match the rest of the jewel cases... and if it brokes you are screwed since the covers wont fit a regular cd case.

[Josh500 1,615]

I really liked the jewel case they used for the (European?) version of KotCS! A new design? Anyway, looked really good, I thought!

i didnt, it does not match the rest of the jewel cases... and if it brokes you are screwed since the covers wont fit a regular cd case.

Well, you're right there.

But I guess I am hoping that this case would catch on, so that many of these are released. Then there'd be extra cases of these available as well, no doubt.

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

just read the liner notes...

I dont like that when they have the masters in complete form, they talk about all the details of finding them and assembling the score and other curious and interesting and cool info. Here on the other hand, there is not mention of using film stems or missing material at all. Or even tell williams arranged some cues for listening experience. (reading the notes one would think it was their idea and not williams)

I mean, not everyone is going to (or be able to) listen or read the interviews... this is like ommiting 'sensitive' information just in case they lose some customers. I dont like that.

The prologue, we are told in the notes that the trailer has different speed and pitch, but they dont mention which is the altered one. Are we sure the OST and LLL track is truly at the wrong speed? It would make more sense that they altered the piece to fit the footage of the trai

[TownerFan 4,983]

Are we sure the OST and LLL track is truly at the wrong speed?

Yes.

[Jay 37,323]

Prologue (Alternate) is a straight transfer of the original recording with no alternations to speed. The revised version ("Prologue") was transferred incorrectly for use on the original album and that transfer was retained for the LLL CD.

Here again is the original teaser the music was written for:

[Wojo 2,453]

And we know the teaser/movie use is the "right" speed because.....

[Josh500 1,615]

To be honest, I couldn't care less about the speed issue.

Personally, if nobody had mentioned it in the first place, I never would have guessed that the OS and LLL versions are in the wrong speed...

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Wojo 2,453]

You got a little brown on your nose.

[Jay 37,323]

And we know the teaser/movie use is the "right" speed because.....

Because I'm telling you. John Takis can confirm if you want.

[Wojo 2,453]

I...see. Well, I suppose that settles it. I hope to never never (never-never-never) never watch the movie again, ever, so I'll probably (never) notice the way the movie's speed doesn't match the album's.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,323]

I...see. Well, I suppose that settles it. I hope to never never (never-never-never) never watch the movie again, ever, so I'll probably (never) notice the way the movie's speed doesn't match the album's.

The piece of music was written for the film's trailer, not the film itself. I posted a youtube clip of it a few posts up. It features no footage from the actual film.

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

the LLLprologue track has better sound quality than the OST track?

[Wojo 2,453]

LeBlanc, I bet you're the kind of guy who can't wait to have kids just so he can correct all the mistakes they make in their homework each night.

[Jay 37,323]

the LLLprologue track has better sound quality than the OST track?

Every track of the LLL set sounds better than the OST

LeBlanc, I bet you're the kind of guy who can't wait to have kids just so he can correct all the mistakes they make in their homework each night.

I wasn't trying to correct anyone for correction's sake, I was just relaying information I know about my favorite score. How was that turned into a bad thing?

[Wojo 2,453]

Yousa point is well seen. I may have been too harsh. BloodBoal will swing by to make it all better.

Can't say that making kids would be a bad thing.

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

hmmm could anyone (pianist) record the missing notes of 'we dont wanna grow up'?

it could work...

[Jay 37,323]

GoodMusician and Mr. Movies version ripped from the French audio track of the Blu Ray is almost SFX free

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

almost is never good enough

[Mitchell 0]

So other than the rather jarring loop at 5:26, are there any others that need to be extracted from the Ultimate War? I'm not as familiar with Williams intentions for the second half of The Ultimate War. I'm almost certain all boots I've heard have retained film edits.

[Jay 37,323]

So other than the rather jarring loop at 5:26, are there any others that need to be extracted from the Ultimate War? I'm not as familiar with Williams intentions for the second half of The Ultimate War. I'm almost certain all boots I've heard have retained film edits.

Yup the recording sessions for the second half of the Ultimate War were not used for the old bootlegs OR the new LLL CD, so unless you have access to them all anyone has ever heard is exactly what's in the film.

As for how the final film differs from Williams' intended vision? Other than the missing 20 seconds that got dialed out after the Croc lands on Hook and the kids start celebrating, not a whole lot was altered.... just minor microedits, fluctuations in volume, and a loop.

[Faleel 5,342]

what would have played in those missing 20 seconds?

[MrJosh 892]

I've been slowly listening through Hook in 10 minute-ish chunks (I'm too damn busy to give it a nice straight through listen like I'd like). I'll post my thoughts as I go.

I've seen Hook hundreds of times growing up. It's one of the movies my Grandma had burned...er...I mean recorded on a blank VHS for my sister and I to watch. Strangely, the VHS tape always screwed up at the part when the croc falls on Hook at the end so for years I didn't know what happened in that scene. It wouldn't cut back until Pan was saying his goodbyes lol.

Anyways, at first I didn't figure out that the music was written by the same man as my other childhood favorites (Star Wars, ET, Indy) until way later in my life. Though when I DID finally figure that out, it made perfect sense (it was one of those Princess Leia moments....."somehow, I've always known").

When I first bought the OST, it was instantly one of my top Williams scores, but over the years I somehow drifted away from it....didn't even listen to the footwarmers very much at all (I hated the suck quality), and so now is the first time in years that I'm actually listening to the score again. It's a really cool experience because it's bringing back a TON of my childhood memories and reminding me what a wonderful score this is! How could I have forgotten. I feel like Robin Williams in the film when he finally remembers his own childhood!

So anyway, here we go with what I've heard so far:

1. Prologue

I love it. Totally sets an adventure-tastic mood for the start of this experience. Does it bother me that it's still the incorrect speed? Yeah. But the quality sounds great! I love how the bass drum hits are almost so powerful that they distort. It's a fantastic track

2. We Don't Wanna Grow Up

Love the piano intro, wish the whole thing was there but that's okay. The song is only a little cringe-worthy to me, but it's kind of cute. I was trying to imagine if this melody could work anywhere else in the film as a theme, but couldn't come up with anything. Probably best that it ended up just being a stand alone piece.

3. Banning Back Home

I've never had the dislike for this piece as some others have. I've always thought it was cool, definitely entertaining to hear. Excited to hear the film version finally....when i get to it.

4. Granny Wendy

The obsessive-compulsive side of me is always bugged when cues aren't chronological, but I am trying to push that nerdyness aside and just listen to the music lol. I actually like these softer moments of score in the film's set-up. Some others have said it drags a bit, but I don't feel that way. There is such subtle beauty of orchestration in these quiet cues, a nice childlike innocence comes through in the melodies and the orchestral textures Williams chose to use.

5. Bedroom

I love the Hook-Napped sections, it's so mysterious and magical! It just feels exciting the minute you hear it, like "oooh what's going to happen." This is another one of those cues that instantly brings me back to watching the movie with my sister when I was like 8 years old. It's amazing how sometimes the movies you watched when young, how the music and scene meld together in the memory. When I hear the Hook Napped parts, I see the wind blowing the curtains, I see the spooky darkness of the scene. Fun stuff!

Obviously, I haven't gotten far at all...lol. But like I said, I'll be lucky to get some listening in over the next week or so.........TO BE CONTINUED

[Jay 37,323]

what would have played in those missing 20 seconds?

A celebratory fanfare version of the Lost Boys' Theme