La-La Land Records' HOOK (2CD Expanded) Discussion thread

[indy4 155]

Ah ok, thanks. Do we know why those are on track? I'm assuming it was an intentional decision on Williams' part?

[Faleel 5,340]

there are "crows" in TOD "to pankot palace"

[John Takis 206]

There some other weird instruments in Hook. During the jig that comes write before Hook's theme in "Presenting the Hook," there's some weird moaning sound....

Not a weird instrument, just a weird technique. It's called a "moan" or "moose call," and it's usually performed on a conga drum:

[Incanus 5,713]

Hey thanks for the info! I have always wondered what instrument makes that strange sound.

Also the bird calls are entirely intentional I think. There is a whole range of bird call whistles.

[indy4 155]

Thanks John! As Incanus said, very interesting.

[TownerFan 4,983]

I always thought it was a bass slide whistle (the same sound heard in Goldsmith's Planet of the Apes).

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Read the message on top of this page.

Karol

They could have sent me an e-mail, would have been nice. Also, I ordered the day after it became available. Surely it couldn't have sold that fast? I thought maybe it was because I'm in Australia and they don't prioritise international orders.

oh well, hopefully it turns up.

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

Also the bird calls are entirely intentional I think. There is a whole range of bird call whistles.

yes, those birds are made by a whistle. Come on guys its pretty noticeable they are not real birds!

[Nemesis 244]

The "birds" are also on the ost.

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

they used that instrument alot in the old silent movies, didnt they?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Piano???

[jacksparrow900 32]

does anyone know how to match the volume of the inserts in the ultimate war

[Jay 37,322]

Raise or lower them until they match the volume of the rest of the piece?

[Jay 37,322]

Seems like a lot of people have been receiving their copies lately. What do you all think of the set?

[MrJosh 892]

I think it's wonderful!

Hook has some of my most favorite melodies of all of John William's melodies. I love Tootles' theme, and the "believe" theme. They both capture such a pure innocence, childlike happy quality that I love, similar (in my opinion) to the Somewhere in My Memory from Home Alone (which I also love).

The Ultimate War is an incredible thing to listen to. It's such creative action writing, masterfully incorporating the various themes of Hook and so much great brass playing/ great brass parts. The quality issues don't really bother me. Sure it sounds like it doesn't have as much depth to it and has some strange reverbyness to it that sounds a bit odd compared to the non-film-stem parts of the score, but I'm honestly just really happy to have it as it is. If the masters for that stuff is found in the future and it actually gets released, well I'll happily purchase it again But for what it is, I think it's fantastic to have that amazing music finally released in "great" quality.

I think La La Land did an excellent job in compromising with what Williams wanted out of the set. The only thing that irks me really is that the Prologue is still incorrect speed, but oh well....easy to fix.

This score I think has my favorite finale of any. I think it's a gorgeous end to a long and fantastic score. I know there are some issues with the release, but I've always been more of a glass-half-full kind of person and like has been said a bunch already, I think La La Land put their best work into getting it as good as can possibly be.

I do hope we all get to hear the demo songs sometime in the future!

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I've criticized it and I will continue to do so. Look, those of us who love this score are grateful for the music getting out there. That said, this expanded album approach was not what we wanted. JW's interference hindered this set. I won't even mention the end battle stuff beyond this sentence.

[Brónach 1,301]

JW's interference hindered this set.

We don't know that. I'm convinced that if LLL would have assembled the thing a bit more, putting the things a bit more in order, taking out loops, equaled volume drop (is there any technical problem with this that I don't know of?), and a pair of other things I have in mind, and showed it to JW, his reaction to it would have been more or less the same.

[Trent B 337]

It does suck La-La Land couldn't locate everything they needed for the release. So it's understandable that some things had to be used from the film stems. You would have least thought who ever edited the set would have taken out any loops or made sure there were no volume changes / dips in the remaining "Ultimate War" pieces.

It was stated that John Williams involvement is what lead to have things left off... IE: inserts for quite a few cues and such as well as "Pick 'Em Up". Probably why the opening portion of the film with the Peter Pan play was only the album version and not pulled from the film stems. I do wish they had included the film version inserts for "To War" and "Crossed Swords".

It also really makes me wish that Mike Matessino had worked on this set and not the other guy who assembled it....can't remember the name. I bet if Mike Matessino had worked on it, it would have been assembled A LOT better. Perhaps even some of the film version inserts present in the release as extra bonus tracks or whatever.

I mean it is understandable with all they had to work with but still...I just wish someone like Mike Matessino had worked on it.

[Incanus 5,713]

But even if Matessino had worked on this there are some things like missing elements he would not have been able to do anything about. Yes his handling of the film stems might have been different and perhaps some film inserts would have found their way on the set but it is pure speculation. We really can't say how it would have turned out.

Again I am deeply grateful that LLL took on this work and steadfastly held on to it for 3 years to produce this set. We do not know what happened behind the scenes and during the production, nor do we know all the entanglements and difficulties in producing this release. From the point of view of a completist it is not perfect but very few things, even though they might be complete, are. Someone always finds something microscopically minute to complain about. If LLL has done the best they could in the circumstances it should be applauded and we should understand that. I am happy to see such love and dedication showered upon a score I personally love so much but getting a lion's share of the music on these 2 fine discs is a blessing. I have been waiting this complete release for nearly half of my life and the score has a special place in my heart and collection so it was a bit of a shock to learn that this set was not complete but also I am grown up enough to admit that sometimes you can't have all that you want the way you want it.

And hope remains that some day from some vault or dusty storage the missing links of Hook music will be found. Until then LLL's expanded score release will be enough I think.

[MrJosh 892]

But even if Matessino had worked on this there are some things like missing elements he would not have been able to do anything about. Yes his handling of the film stems might have been different and perhaps some film inserts would have found their way on the set but it is pure speculation. We really can't say how it would have turned out.

Again I am deeply grateful that LLL took on this work and steadfastly held on to it for 3 years to produce this set. We do not know what happened behind the scenes and during the production, nor do we know all the entanglements and difficulties in producing this release. From the point of view of a completist it is not perfect but very few things, even though they might be complete, are. Someone always finds something microscopically minute to complain about. If LLL has done the best they could in the circumstances it should be applauded and we should understand that. I am happy to see such love and dedication showered upon a score I personally love so much but getting a lion's share of the music on these 2 fine discs is a blessing. I have been waiting this complete release for nearly half of my life and the score has a special place in my heart and collection so it was a bit of a shock to learn that this set was not complete but also I am grown up enough to admit that sometimes you can't have all that you want the way you want it.

And hope remains that some day from some vault or dusty storage the missing links of Hook music will be found. Until then LLL's expanded score release will be enough I think.

Well said, and you are right, we really don't know what went on behind the scenes/ difficulties they may have gone through to get us what they did. That's why I'm more leaning toward just being thankful/ happy for what we've got. And I've really got some obsessive completist stuff going on, so believe me I'd LOVE to have every second of the score, source music, inserts, not from film stems. But, what we've got is just too awesome (in my opinion) to worry about that stuff....I just sit back and enjoy the score

[Josh500 1,615]

JW's interference hindered this set.

We don't know that. I'm convinced that if LLL would have assembled the thing a bit more, putting the things a bit more in order, taking out loops, equaled volume drop (is there any technical problem with this that I don't know of?), and a pair of other things I have in mind, and showed it to JW, his reaction to it would have been more or less the same.

Yes.

[Jonesy 55]

I've really enjoyed this release, but I had liked a chronological order presentation, and the volume of the tracks it's a bit low. Anyway, this is fine for my taste and I have to say LLL has done an awesome job.

[Josh500 1,615]

I've really enjoyed this release, but I had liked a chronological order presentation, and the volume of the tracks it's a bit low. Anyway, this is fine for my taste and I have to say LLL has done an awesome job.

I'd be happy if I knew they did all they could with what they had (even with JW's involvement), but this time I have an idea they didn't!

[Incanus 5,713]

I've really enjoyed this release, but I had liked a chronological order presentation, and the volume of the tracks it's a bit low. Anyway, this is fine for my taste and I have to say LLL has done an awesome job.

I'd be happy if I knew they did all they could with what they had (even with JW's involvement), but this time I have an idea they didn't!

And why is that? What makes you think they did not do their best?

The only thing I and apparently most who listened to this set are baffled about is the way they retained the looping in the Ultimate War plus the volume dips that might have been removed or at least diminished. Those are the only things really bugging about this set.

[Josh500 1,615]

Mainly because of the volume issue.

Why in the world didn't correct that? This can't possibly have to do with JW's involvement in producing this set...

[TownerFan 4,983]

Seems like a lot of people have been receiving their copies lately. What do you all think of the set?

It's a wonderful set, albeit not a definitive presentation. It's beautifully put together and it flows really well. It's a change of pace from the usual boutique label mentality we're now accustomed, as it's more an expansion of the original OST program and less an archival presentation. I'm fine with it, as Hook was already one of the most linear, film narrative-oriented JW OSTs ever. The only very minor quibbles I have are some tiny discrepancies, like mantaining the "Prologue" at the wrong speed and presenting "Follow that Shadow" as a separate track, but all of them are easily fixable.

It's a bit sad LLL couldn't retrieve a better-sounding source for the Ultimate War sequence, but I suspect this isn't the last time we'll see Hook music released. I'm confident all these little quibbles will be fixed in a future edition. In the meantime, I'll cheer at what we have and I'll surely have countless hours of joy while listening to this great music.

Artwork and liner notes are, as usual, top-notch.

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

liner notes could use a little more infor on the story of assembling the score, sources, etc...

[Incanus 5,713]

liner notes could use a little more infor on the story of assembling the score, sources, etc...

I think that was left out on purpose.

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

that's why i mentioned it.

bad form. false advertising for omiting sensitive material.

this way we can only specualte and blame them. If they have come clean in the notes, we would probably understand the reasons and dont blame anyone.

[Richard Penna 3,675]

I agree that disclosing the source of the Ultimate War cues would have been helpful, and it wouldn't be the first time - at the end of the notes for Breakdown, Dan Goldwasser mentioned that they used a music-only film stem for many cues on disc 1, and that set has one slight volume fluctuation that they didn't correct (nothing major).

But this is just one case where they didn't reveal their sources, and compare them to Varese, who are very closed up about revealing sources - at least on their site - I have two club releases and I don't think the liner notes of either mention the source material or its condition.

[Incanus 5,713]

Yes I fully agree that disclosing the reasons for the sound fluctuations and loops would have been a good thing since it explains and gives a sort justification for them instead of leaving people wondering why certain tracks sound different compared to the rest of the music.

[Josh500 1,615]

I have an idea that, as far as volume issues go, this makes the Indy Concord box set look like a regular masterpiece!

(Hell, I haven't even the CD yet, and I already feel like I know all about it! )

[Admiral Holdo 16]

Oh Josh... the Indy box is much more labor-intensive. No pitch correction needed on this one.

If this CD came out in 1997, or even before the online-boutique boom, none of us would be complaining. And that's all I'm going to say.

[Josh500 1,615]

Oh Josh... the Indy box is much more labor-intensive. No pitch correction needed on this one.

Yeah, whatever. The thought came to me because back when the Concord Indy set was released, it was all about pitch pitch pitch.

Now it's volume volume volume!

If this CD came out in 1997, or even before the online-boutique boom, none of us would be complaining. And that's all I'm going to say.

I bet people would have found something else to complain about!

[Admiral Holdo 16]

True... eh, they probably would've been complaining about the Backstreet Boys. Everyone else was!

[crocodile 7,989]

True. Backstreet's Back album wasn't very good. Not on par with their debut disc anyway.

Karol

[Josh500 1,615]

True. Backstreet's Back album wasn't very good. Not on par with their debut disc anyway.

Karol

We're not gonna discuss the Backstreet Boys for the next 5 pages, are we?

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

in 1997 this set would have been a marvel. we got the concorde that time arround... so in 2012, they would have located even better souces and release the perfect score

btw vareses midway states that two tracks are film stems. they came out clean there. of couse in fheir.reissue of conan...they said the masters were damaged and intrada has located fine sources

[KK 3,307]

Well I've been really busy of late, so I only got the chance to play the Hook release today. Almost done the first CD and so far I'm lovin' it! I suppose you'll hear more when I've gone through all of it.

[Incanus 5,713]

Do you plan to do an extensive review?

[MrJosh 892]

I love a good extensive review and a cup of coffee (those are coffees)

[KK 3,307]

Do you plan to do an extensive review?

Maybe, depends. I intend to do one if time allows it. I'll keep ya in suspense for now

Of course, I'm surprised you haven't already spit a long analysis out already. Or have I already missed it?!

[Incanus 5,713]

Do you plan to do an extensive review?

Maybe, depends. I intend to do one if time allows it. I'll keep ya in suspense for now

Of course, I'm surprised you haven't already spit a long analysis out already. Or have I already missed it?!

Working on a Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone analysis at the moment. It is going to be massive and is eating up all review/analysis time at the moment.

[crocodile 7,989]

I'm going to post mine right now.

It has themes, orchestra and it's good.

Karol

[Incanus 5,713]

I'm going to post mine right now.

It has themes, orchestra and it's good.

Karol

Sounds good to me!

[KK 3,307]

Do you plan to do an extensive review?

Maybe, depends. I intend to do one if time allows it. I'll keep ya in suspense for now

Of course, I'm surprised you haven't already spit a long analysis out already. Or have I already missed it?!

Working on a Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone analysis at the moment. It is going to be massive and is eating up all review/analysis time at the moment.

Sounds like quite the project! Awesome that you're tackling it! Can't wait to read it.

I'm going to post mine right now.

It has themes, orchestra and it's good.

Karol

Brilliant!

[MrJosh 892]

Working on a Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone analysis at the moment. It is going to be massive and is eating up all review/analysis time at the moment.

[Trent B 337]

Overall I am quite happy with the La-La Land release for this score since it's A LOT better than what we had before. Like Incanus the only thing that bugs me is the loops as well as the drops and raise of the volume levels for the remaining Ultimate War pieces.

If this set had been edited together by someone else, then those loops would have been removed and the errors in volume for the most part at least try to be corrected. It almost seems like an amateurish job instead of a professional one.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

This set is the worst thing ever MV should be ashamed of himself, letting John Williams near it was a recipe for disaster, everyone involved should be ashamed of themselves and quit the soundtrack-making world forever. Still, it's better than it would have been if Varese had done it.

[Incanus 5,713]

This set is the worst thing ever MV should be ashamed of himself, letting John Williams near it was a recipe for disaster, everyone involved should be ashamed of themselves and quit the soundtrack-making world forever. Still, it's better than it would have been if Varese had done it.

This could be called a prime example of grudging acknowledgement.