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La-La Land Records' HOOK (2CD Expanded) Discussion thread

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Sony simply wanted to produce a set containing material stored in their official archives, not material emailed to LLL from a fan.

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Just now, Jay said:

Sony simply wanted to produce a set containing material stored in their official archives, not material emailed to LLL from a fan.

Which I think is quite reasonable.

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But what does it matter where something comes from as long as it sounds good? If you offer me the Cornucopia insert, why would I care whetehr it came from the pope, a 1990 cassette or a 2000 bootleg? Isn't the fact that the bootleg contained material that Sony lost more important? I'll never understand those companies... As for lossless, I am so happy I can be satisfied with 128kbps files.

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1 minute ago, bollemanneke said:

But what does it matter where something comes from as long as it sounds good? If you offer me the Cornucopia insert, why would I care whetehr it came from the pope, a 1990 cassette or a 2000 bootleg? Isn't the fact that the bootleg contained material that Sony lost more important? I'll never understand those companies... As for lossless, I am so happy I can be satisfied with 128kbps files.

It matters to the big companies. Believe me.

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1 hour ago, Incanus said:

Which I think is quite reasonable.

 

Less so if the inference is that they just lost half of the sessions and now want to sell collectors the lackluster result at a full price. Since we thankfully have the bootleg the whole affair is moot but...

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John Doe generally doesnt buy from LLL, so that argument goes out the window.

 

It's very simple. Sony actually owns the music and can therefore dictate what can and cannot be done with it. It doesnt get any more complicated than that.

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I think that as soon as you start including bootleg material in an official release, then there's immediately a problem with acknowledging officially where it came from.

 

MM discusses the source materials for both Jurassic expansions. Imagine trying to do that, and have to explain that the centrepiece of the score is from lossy mp3s sent in by a customer. I can see exactly why Sony isn't going to do that. Even for someone like me (a fan of straight talking), boots/session leaks are a really awkward area. Imagine if we got a situation where a fan-provided boot was the only surviving source for an entire score.... it would never see the official light of day.

 

I do agree though, with this, however:

 

18 hours ago, Selina Kyle said:

The bottom line is that Williams should have never been allowed to interfere. I remember La-La Land seemed so proud of his involvement. "Supervised and approved by John Williams!" In those days, that was like a death sentence for a complete score release.

 

I can understand a label being proud that the composer has approved the release, but yeah, in this case, even with someone as persuasive as MM onboard, it's a sign that something, somewhere, has been meddled with. It makes you worry until you've checked all the important bits.

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33 minutes ago, king mark said:

Hey, were talking about the company that brought us the TPM Ultimate Edition

 

Actually, we're not. Sony Music and Sony the film studio are completely separate entities, just like UMG and Universal the film studio are. 

 

 

 

32 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

I can understand a label being proud that the composer has approved the release, but yeah, in this case, even with someone as persuasive as MM onboard, it's a sign that something, somewhere, has been meddled with. It makes you worry until you've checked all the important bits.

 

MM wasn't involved with Hook. Didier Deutsch produced it. 

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Leaks are indeed awkward, but then you're making it sound like a certain super important guy might be giving Deutsche the third degree.

"Whee did you get that from? Where?!"

"From ... because high quality wasn't available."

"WHAT?!"

I'd rather have decent official-ish scores than incomplete official scores.

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Why wasn't "The Arrival of Tink and The Flight to Neverland" the album version? We actually lucked out with that one. "The Face of Pan" was different too. The only other stuff of interest here is alternates. Because you know this release is loaded with those, not film versions.

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I'm just thinking happy thoughts we had all kinds of...erm...releases throughout the years attributed to this score. It's my all-time favorite, and (though I can't fault LLLR for not having the elements), Williams involvement really made what should've been a very special release a very average one.

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36 minutes ago, Selina Kyle said:

Why wasn't "The Arrival of Tink and The Flight to Neverland" the album version? We actually lucked out with that one. "The Face of Pan" was different too. The only other stuff of interest here is alternates. Because you know this release is loaded with those, not film versions.

 

Reminds me of the Indy set, with all those alternates on Temple of Doom. Still annoyed we don't have the film version of To Pankot Palace.

 

Thankfully we could salvage the film version of Map/Out of Fuel from the Lego games, another disaster averted.
 

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What is this theme in the End Credits that appear at 3:05-4:09?

 

I have been traveling for Easter and included it in a playlist and it’s driving me MAD that I can’t place it..

 

Granny Wendy... ? No. A portrait of Wendy... ? No... Aaaargh!

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49 minutes ago, igger6 said:

Tink's Theme is the unsung hero of that score for me.  Every time it plays, I'm seven years old again.  I don't know if it's complex enough to support a full suite, but gosh, do I love it whenever it shows up.  It also appears in a lovely string-and-woodwind rendition at 6:15 in "Hook Challenges Peter."

Agreed! And I'm sure JW would be able to create an engaging suite.

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10 hours ago, igger6 said:

Tink's Theme is the unsung hero of that score for me.  Every time it plays, I'm seven years old again.  I don't know if it's complex enough to support a full suite, but gosh, do I love it whenever it shows up.  It also appears in a lovely string-and-woodwind rendition at 6:15 in "Hook Challenges Peter."

Agreed. Such a pitch perfect little theme for the character. Part playful mischief part pure fairy story.

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After raising this earlier in the Schindler's List thread, I did some digging on the "lost" Didier C. Deutsch interview in which I vaguely recall he referred to a 'treasure trove' of unreleased goodies from the Hook sessions he wasn't allowed to discuss, but that there was material he'd listened to and sadly couldn't include on the LLL due to licensing or legal issues. I cannot find the exact interview where he stated this, but I did find (care of Google Translator) this interesting interview in which he discusses some of the things that were omitted per Williams' request.

 

 

Quote

 

How was the content of the double album devoted to Hook selected?

I wanted, three or four years ago, to show Hook under the Legacy label. In the end, it did not happen. From an economic point of view, the label is always in fluctuation, according to the demands of the market, and the moment was badly chosen. But I had time to explore all the recording tapes we kept. And to my surprise, I discovered that we really had the full soundtrack of the movie, that is, 21 boxes, each containing 30 to 35 minutes of music! My first job was to protect this material: so we transferred all these soundtracks to digital ... From the moment Michael Gerhard started working with us, Hook was one of the first titles he put on the table and I gave my agreement. The cost of production was huge, fortunately the Columbia came to the rescue. I just went to the studio with my sound engineer, with all the elements exactly in their place, as I had designed the entire music of the film, from beginning to end. So we put on this double disc everything we hear in the movie, including songs that have not been used. Meanwhile, John Williams, through his middlemen, said he wanted to listen to what we had done. He made some suggestions, he asked that certain songs that were repetitive be eliminated, he excluded pieces that were not in the tone like Take Me Out To The Ballgame ... In short, he recreated the soundtrack such as we hear it on this double disc.

 

 

http://www.underscores.fr/rencontres/interviews/2012/03/entretien-avec-didier-c-deutsch/

 

Now when he refers to "songs" that were omitted for being repetitive, is this just Google Translate misinterpreting 'cues' or 'tracks', or could he be referring to some of the infamous lost songs that Williams was rumoured to have written for the earlier musical incarnation of Hook?

 

Also, claiming to have the full soundtrack of the movie in those 21 boxes (each containing 35 minutes of music?!) is quite astonishing. What exactly happened here? What elements did they uncover and how did so much music go missing, forcing them to use the film stems for large swathes of the score?

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He likely meant TriStar Pictures, the arm of Sony Pictures that released Hook.  TriStar Pictures and Columbia Pictures used to be separate entities but have both been owned by Sony since the 80s

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5 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

Good questions. I'll add mine, bound to be a stupid one: Why did Columbia come to the rescue? Why would they pay for a LLL production?

 

Without checking the sleeve of my LLL Hook, I'm guessing they needed to license existing OST music from Columbia and unreleased music from Sony (mechanical rights and all that complicated stuff Mike often talks about).

 

I can imagine Hook being a pretty complicated score to licence due to the studio shenanigans. Just a cursory glance of the Wikipedia page shows that the studio has faced lots of administrative changes in the decades following the film's release, and the Sony Music branch would be no different.

 

Add to that their decision of stopping third party releases...

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Also, is it me or was JW much more involved in the making of this flawed product than in other cases? Does he just trust Mike Matessino much more, does MM have a hard time convincing him to give us these mostly fantastic presentations or was the team behind Hook just not really competent?

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