La-La Land Records' HOOK (2CD Expanded) Discussion thread

[Richard Penna 3,679]

Actually, the addition to Farewell Neverland is the thing I dislike most.

That minute of music is a natural continuation of The End of Hook (when free of microedits). By JW requesting a microedit there (whhhyyyy Johnny?), he's forced the editors to find somewhere else for the tail end of the cue.

I've corrected volume dips in DVD rips and it's a very meticulous process, although LLL wouldn't have had to deal with background sfx fluctuating along with the music. It would just mean a bit more hiss in the background for those parts - maybe they did try that, and decided it didn't work?

I'm very happy with everything else on this set (from someone who doesn't care about inserts, and has seen the film once). It's just this final sequence that has both elements and editing problems.

[Delorean90 42]

That's not a microediting thing, though, it's a case of needing to use the film stems, which simply didn't have that extra music.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

The reason that section of The End of Hook is at the beginning of Farewell Neverland is because the section between the ending of the LLL Sword Fight track and LLL Farewell Neverland opening is presumably lost. That section is cut from the film, hence why it's not at the end of the Sword Fight track. Instead, you get the unnatural sounding film edits.

What a disaster those tracks are.

[Admiral Holdo 16]

That microedit wasn't really his call. They dialed out 20 seconds of music in the film, and given that they only had music stems to work with, they put it the only place they could (except for, say, as a separate track... I don't care what you guys say, that's not a particularly good segue into Farewell Neverland).

EDIT: Jesus... beaten to the punch, TWICE!

[publicist 4,643]

Now that i have heard the whole ULTIMATE WAR segment ( and the intro to FAREWELL NEVERLaND), i must say it's a pity, Much worse than i thought, the tinny reverb from the dvd rips unfortunately still drips through in second intervals. Que pasa.

On the plus side, the alternate prologue is nice to have and the material from the session tapes sounds aces. Still, the whole project remains a flawed affair for me and Williams' editing decisions haven't got the slightest thing t do with it.

[Richard Penna 3,679]

Ah ok, I stand corrected - I haven't seen the film for years - didn't realise the microedited bit is like that in the film.

That excerpt would definitely have worked a lot better as a standalone track.

[Luke Skywalker 1,794]

so the ultimate war part I has film loops but not the inserts? something fishy here.

Since i read jason's interview with the producer, where he said he had watched the film several times and were replicating the film score that bugged me.

Do you think they used the OST track and edited it to replicate the film?

The film stems should contain the inserts, period. This is so annoying...using film stems and dont release two nver release-bits that should be there. Its like a bad joke.

i hope they take their time to re-release this again... i want it, but not next year. so many socred out there in need of expansion.

And for god's shake, please dont call williams to approve the Jurassic park scores, i beg you.

[Trent B 337]

After all this time we get the expanded score for Hook and a lot of you all you can do is bitch? Ya I'm a bit disappointed in A FEW THINGS but not the whole damn score. Let us just be happy what we have.

Perhaps after Williams passes on then we may get the score re-released again in 100% complete form. Until then stop bitching and be grateful for what we all ready have.

[TownerFan 4,983]

Frankly, I don't understand the fuss about those Ultimate War inserts. Sure, everyone has his/her own favourite bits, but I largely favour Williams' original approach in this case. Both inserts sound quite awkward when placed into the flow.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Josh500 1,615]

After all this time we get the expanded score for Hook and a lot of you all you can do is bitch? Ya I'm a bit disappointed in A FEW THINGS but not the whole damn score. Let us just be happy what we have.

Until then stop bitching and be grateful for what we all ready have.

Yes!

Perhaps after Williams passes on then we may get the score re-released again in 100% complete form.

But I seriously doubt this. And I don't want something that JW disapproved of being released anyway!

I am sure his estate or even Spielberg himself will see to that!

[Charlie Brigden 7]

And for god's shake, please dont call williams to approve the Jurassic park scores, i beg you.

Didn't you hear? They've already announced it.

LA LA LAND RECORDS PRESENTS

JURASSIC PARK: EXPANDED ORIGINAL MOTION PICTURE SOUNDTRACK: LIMITED EDITION

MUSIC COMPOSED AND CONDUCTED BY JOHN WILLIAMS

PERSONALLY SUPERVISED AND APPROVED BY COMPOSER

100000 UNITS

TRACK LISTING:

1. Theme From Jurassic Park

2. Theme From Jurassic Park

3. Theme From Jurassic Park

4. Theme From Jurassic Park

5. Theme From Jurassic Park

6. Theme From Jurassic Park

7. Theme From Jurassic Park

8. Theme From Jurassic Park

9. Theme From Jurassic Park

10. Theme From Jurassic Park

11. Theme From Jurassic Park

12. Theme From Jurassic Park

13. Theme From Jurassic Park

14. Theme From Jurassic Park

15. Theme From Jurassic Park

16. Theme From Jurassic Park

17. Theme From Jurassic Park

18. Theme From Jurassic Park

19. Theme From Jurassic Park

20. Theme From Jurassic Park

21. Theme From Jurassic Park

22. Theme From Jurassic Park

23. Theme From Jurassic Park

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Josh500 1,615]

Frankly, I don't understand the fuss about those Ultimate War inserts. Sure, everyone has his/her own favourite bits, but I largely favour Williams' original approach in this case. Both inserts sound quite awkward when placed into the flow.

I bet some people here are calling certain pieces their favorites simply because they are not on this release . . . or not in complete form, anyway!

[Demondm810 399]

Frankly, I don't understand the fuss about those Ultimate War inserts. Sure, everyone has his/her own favourite bits, but I largely favour Williams' original approach in this case. Both inserts sound quite awkward when placed into the flow.

Agreed

[Josh500 1,615]

And for god's shake, please dont call williams to approve the Jurassic park scores, i beg you.

Didn't you hear? They've already announced it.

LA LA LAND RECORDS PRESENTS

JURASSIC PARK: EXPANDED ORIGINAL MOTION PICTURE SOUNDTRACK: LIMITED EDITION

MUSIC COMPOSED AND CONDUCTED BY JOHN WILLIAMS

PERSONALLY SUPERVISED AND APPROVED BY COMPOSER

100000 UNITS

TRACK LISTING:

1. Theme From Jurassic Park

2. Theme From Jurassic Park

3. Theme From Jurassic Park

4. Theme From Jurassic Park

5. Theme From Jurassic Park

6. Theme From Jurassic Park

7. Theme From Jurassic Park

8. Theme From Jurassic Park

9. Theme From Jurassic Park

10. Theme From Jurassic Park

11. Theme From Jurassic Park

12. Theme From Jurassic Park

13. Theme From Jurassic Park

14. Theme From Jurassic Park

15. Theme From Jurassic Park

16. Theme From Jurassic Park

17. Theme From Jurassic Park

18. Theme From Jurassic Park

19. Theme From Jurassic Park

20. Theme From Jurassic Park

21. Theme From Jurassic Park

22. Theme From Jurassic Park

23. Theme From Jurassic Park

Not funny!

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Track 23 is actually Theme From Jurassic Park (film version - partly unused). Should be good.

[Admiral Holdo 16]

After all this time we get the expanded score for Hook and a lot of you all you can do is bitch? Ya I'm a bit disappointed in A FEW THINGS but not the whole damn score. Let us just be happy what we have.

From the guy who bitches about the Star Trek Deluxe Edition every chance he gets? That's rich.

[Josh500 1,615]

After all this time we get the expanded score for Hook and a lot of you all you can do is bitch? Ya I'm a bit disappointed in A FEW THINGS but not the whole damn score. Let us just be happy what we have.

From the guy who bitches about the Star Trek Deluxe Edition every chance he gets? That's rich.

Well, he's come around. Better late than never.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

It's selective bitching. Hook is clearly one of the most important film score releases of all time, as opposed to some mediocre Giacchino score that couldn't even be tolerated on a 40 minute OST.

[Richard Penna 3,679]

After all this time we get the expanded score for Hook and a lot of you all you can do is bitch? Ya I'm a bit disappointed in A FEW THINGS but not the whole damn score. Let us just be happy what we have.

Until then stop bitching and be grateful for what we all ready have.

Yes!

Have you noticed we're 'bitching' about one very specific area of the album? (probably the very same things you're disappointed in).

And yes, for the guy who constantly complains about missing choir/edits/wrong mix in Star Trek, and (along with me) the general shoddiness of a certain Varese DE, you're the last person to lecture us about complaining about four cues.

Perhaps after Williams passes on then we may get the score re-released again in 100% complete form.

But I seriously doubt this. And I don't want something that JW disapproved of being released anyway!

Seriously?

[Josh500 1,615]

But I seriously doubt this. And I don't want something that JW disapproved of being released anyway!

Seriously?

Yes, seriously. Of course.

If I were the artist and I didn't want something released (for whatever reason), I'd be seriously pissed/disappointed if it got released anyway! (Or if I knew that after my death it would be released by greedy businessmen out to make more money.)

[Richard Penna 3,679]

For a music fan, that's a very strange stance.

Suddenly, reissues after a composer's death are now greedy, money-making ventures? Even if they are legitimately warranted to make additional music available or use better sources?

BTW, in defence of LLL, I've just looked at the final scene, and it's very clear that they had to use a music-only stem for everything from The Ultimate War onwards.

Hence, the bit included at the start of Farewell Neverland (and the crossfade) is exactly how it sounds in the film.

So I suppose we should be thankful that there was a music-only track available.

[Josh500 1,615]

For a music fan, that's a very strange stance.

Not really.

Suddenly, reissues after a composer's death are now greedy, money-making ventures? Even if they are legitimately warranted to make additional music available or use better sources?

And we're not talking about any additional music here. I said if JW requested that some minor cues not be released, I respect his wishes.

And he's very generous already, but some people apparently don't/will never see that! Look where we've come to! We got the Epic release with 75 minutes of brilliant music, and now we're getting another release with 65 minutes of additional music, and still some people can but complain and complain and complain!

Like Trent said, it's time we showed some gratitude!

[Luke Skywalker 1,794]

For a music fan, that's a very strange stance.

Suddenly, reissues after a composer's death are now greedy, money-making ventures? Even if they are legitimately warranted to make additional music available or use better sources?

BTW, in defence of LLL, I've just looked at the final scene, and it's very clear that they had to use a music-only stem for everything from The Ultimate War onwards.

Hence, the bit included at the start of Farewell Neverland (and the crossfade) is exactly how it sounds in the film.

So I suppose we should be thankful that there was a music-only track available.

but without inserts, funnily.

Really, i dont even remember how they sound.

but since i already had the music without them in the OST and the boots, i anted something new (and using film stems how could the tracks not have them...but they dont.)

@Trent: so lets count the hours until williams passes to have a perfect release?

I prefer it not involving him in releases and remain alive to compose more things

[publicist 4,643]

We got the Epic release with 75 minutes of brilliant music, and now we're getting another release with 65 minutes of additional music, and still some people can but complain and complain and complain! Like Trent said, it's time we showed some gratitude!

You're a whiny little fella, aren't you? My credit card shows gratitude that is generous enough (certainly for LLL).

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[indy4 155]

BloodBoal, stop complaining.

[Luke Skywalker 1,794]

We got the Epic release with 75 minutes of brilliant music, and now we're getting another release with 65 minutes of additional music, and still some people can but complain and complain and complain! Like Trent said, it's time we showed some gratitude!

You're a whiny little fella, aren't you? My credit card shows gratitude that is generous enough (certainly for LLL).

exactly.

I paid, and i'm entitled to complain (or talk about the faults)

Just like everyone complains when one of the big labels drops a bomb.

niche labels are great but they are not perfect. sometimes a little critizism can help them improve in the future, with small labels that are close to the customers this can work, but the big labels you just talk to a wall. So i hope they (the labels) see any complain i do to make things better in the future, not as a mindless complain.

[Admiral Holdo 16]

In this case, the problems with Hook aren't entirely LLL's fault. The only headscratcher for me is the looping in the Ultimate War tracks. Other than that, all our complaints come down to composer involvement and missing elements. And we can't really blame the good folks at LLL for that.

[Goldfingers 126]

.

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

The problem is there you cannot ever please these fans.

If we got some holy grail release with 6 cds, 17 hours of music from two hour film. With brilliant

artwork, cheap price. But there is 2,7 seconds of missing music. Oh my god, they raped my childhood memories!!Geez!

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

It just wouldn't be JWFan complaining without people complaining about the complaining.

In this case, the disappointment is reasonable. All of us who enjoy the score are getting enjoyment from these CDs. Yet, there are some glaring omissions and decisions in the assembly of the set that are holding it back. It's because the music is so great that screwing it up or not including some of it will incite such response.

[jacksparrow900 32]

I think we need a editing guide for hook like we have for Indiana Jones

[Trent B 337]

The problem with most (not all, most) members here on JWFAN if every single 100% note that was written for a film by John Williams is released by a label like LLL no one would bitch about it. If a minute or two or an insert is missing, people bitch. That's just how life here is.

Mr. M. said it best that the problems with this Hook set were NOT entirely La-La Land's fault. They did their best to locate all the necessary elements they needed. They went to Spielberg, Williams and even Shawn Murphy but couldn't find everything. Hence why they had to resort to the music only portion from the film stems of the movie for quite a few pieces. So don't blame them for that.

Yes sometimes when composers are involved with a release things can be cut: IE Honey, I Shrunk The Kids and Hook. However just because they are doesn't mean everyone needs to be up in arms over it. Yes I am disappointed that some things weren't complete or cut but I can live with it and I won't bitch about it until god knows when like a lot of you will.

[Richard Penna 3,679]

Been listening to this for the last hour or so, and I've got to say, my reservations about this score needing such a lavish expansion are still here.

Some of the longer tracks (Arrival of Tink, Hook Challenges Peter, Presenting the Hook, to name three) really drag for me. A lot of it is due to Williams' heavy mickey-mousing in many areas, and often he starts a really nice thematic quotation, and then just when it's getting going... the orchestra halts in its tracks (probably as tink appears) and we get more twinkly stuff. Am I the only person who finds this stuff quite tedious, and often emotionally empty?

It's the type of scoring that starts to fall apart a bit if you're not familiar with the film (I've seen it once, many years ago).

The thematic material and the battle sequences are absolutely awesome, but some of the more underscore-type cues have a remarkable lack of coherence (and dare I say it, a few cues went by earlier without me noticing them at all).

I now await the reasons why I'm woefully misguided

[Faleel 5,345]

6 words:

Alternate. Prologue. and. fanfare. In. Pirates.

actually, I kinda agree with you, but I don't think that just because there are some tracks that do not need to be there, that means an expansion is unwarranted, also Presenting the Hook is a highlight, not a drag.

[Taikomochi 1,136]

The problem is there you cannot ever please these fans.

If we got some holy grail release with 6 cds, 17 hours of music from two hour film. With brilliant

artwork, cheap price. But there is 2,7 seconds of missing music. Oh my god, they raped my childhood memories!!Geez!

And if they got those 2.7 seconds, everyone would bitch that it is too much music.

[King Mark 3,630]

Yes I am disappointed that some things weren't complete or cut but I can live with it and I won't bitch about it until god knows when like a lot of you will.

Your kidding, right?

[Wojo 2,453]

I only listened up until Pan got to meet Captain Hook, and for a while, I thought I was listening to my boot. I thought I had paid $30...to listen to my boot. I'll hit the rest of it tomorrow night, might be able to make an intelligent comment then.

[Trent B 337]

Yes I am disappointed that some things weren't complete or cut but I can live with it and I won't bitch about it until god knows when like a lot of you will.

Your kidding, right?

No I'm not kidding. The events of how this set turned out are understandable and thus I can live with it. It's possible a full more 100% complete set MAYBE released after a time whenever Williams passes. For now I'm happy with this as a legit release.

[Faleel 5,345]

I only listened up until Pan got to meet Captain Hook, and for a while, I thought I was listening to my boot. I thought I had paid $30...to listen to my boot. I'll hit the rest of it tomorrow night, might be able to make an intelligent comment then.

what?

[Wojo 2,453]

An intelligent comment? Oh, I forgot you're kinda new here. I used to make them a lot. That was before the accident.

[King Mark 3,630]

Well, to be fair. The LaLaLand set sounds way better than the Concorde boot, if that's what you referring to

[Wojo 2,453]

I don't know what boot I have. We weren't properly introduced. I've had it a long time, though. Napster was legal and this place was still a pirate cove.

[Faleel 5,345]

The boot I had, had a lot of hiss/noise removal.

[scallenger 483]

Hmm... maybe his doesn't...

[Delorean90 42]

Been listening to this for the last hour or so, and I've got to say, my reservations about this score needing such a lavish expansion are still here.

Some of the longer tracks (Arrival of Tink, Hook Challenges Peter, Presenting the Hook, to name three) really drag for me. A lot of it is due to Williams' heavy mickey-mousing in many areas, and often he starts a really nice thematic quotation, and then just when it's getting going... the orchestra halts in its tracks (probably as tink appears) and we get more twinkly stuff. Am I the only person who finds this stuff quite tedious, and often emotionally empty?

It's the type of scoring that starts to fall apart a bit if you're not familiar with the film (I've seen it once, many years ago).

The thematic material and the battle sequences are absolutely awesome, but some of the more underscore-type cues have a remarkable lack of coherence (and dare I say it, a few cues went by earlier without me noticing them at all).

I now await the reasons why I'm woefully misguided

Can you give me an example of one those thematic interruption moments?

[Josh500 1,615]

We got the Epic release with 75 minutes of brilliant music, and now we're getting another release with 65 minutes of additional music, and still some people can but complain and complain and complain! Like Trent said, it's time we showed some gratitude!

You're a whiny little fella, aren't you? My credit card shows gratitude that is generous enough (certainly for LLL).

Bwahaha. And you're a simple-minded little fella, aren't you?

You can find some fault with it, sure, but you can go overboard too! I am sure this release is not all bad, as some make out.

Yes I am disappointed that some things weren't complete or cut but I can live with it and I won't bitch about it until god knows when like a lot of you will.

Your kidding, right?

This should be our new catch phrase!

You're kidding, right?

We got the Epic release with 75 minutes of brilliant music, and now we're getting another release with 65 minutes of additional music, and still some people can but complain and complain and complain! Like Trent said, it's time we showed some gratitude!

You're a whiny little fella, aren't you? My credit card shows gratitude that is generous enough (certainly for LLL).

exactly.

I paid, and i'm entitled to complain (or talk about the faults)

Just like everyone complains when one of the big labels drops a bomb.

niche labels are great but they are not perfect. sometimes a little critizism can help them improve in the future, with small labels that are close to the customers this can work, but the big labels you just talk to a wall. So i hope they (the labels) see any complain i do to make things better in the future, not as a mindless complain.

That's the keyword right there. LITTLE

___________________

God, I am tired of waiting for this album to arrive!

Anybody got it today?

[KittBash 282]

Hey Guys! La-La Land released an expanded Hook!

It's more then we had (legally)!

Got great Sound!

They worked for Eons on this thing!

MV and the rest of the La La Crew are heroes!

YAY!!!!!!!

(someone had to say it! )