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Patton or Saving Private Ryan...the poll.


JoeinAR
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Which is the better score and film?  

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  1. 1. Which is the better film score

    • Patton by Jerry Goldsmith
    • Saving Private Ryan by John Williams
  2. 2. Which is the better film



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There are many here whose love for Jerry Goldsmith surpasse even their love for John Williams. I am not one of them but I do respect Jerry's work tremendously.

John never lost to Jerry when they went head to head, but there were years they did not directly compete and sadly Jerry only got to hold the gold one time.

Patton is one of those scores that screams Oscar winner but wasn't.

So which is the better score and to go a step further which is the better film.

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It's a great film, and IMHO possibly the best WWII film.

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I haven't seen either of them.

both are must see films
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SAVING PRIVATE RYAN on both. However, I haven't seen PATTON, so the film vote is really moot.

I've had the RSNO rerecording for ages, and while I can appreciate it's structure and complexity, I suspect it's better served by the film than as a stand-alone listen. I'll find out once I get to see the movie.

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I think I saw Patton in middle school. Don't remember much aside from George C. Scott's incredible performance. Goldsmith's score is fantastic, but Spielberg and Williams get my votes. It sits comfortably in my #2 spot for Best Spielberg Film/Best Williams Score.

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No, I mean seriously. Patton has one of the greatest themes ever written. SPR is nice, but C'mon!

Karol

agreed, nothing in the SPR score comes close to Jerry's main theme.
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I always hated the wailing women toward the end of Hymn to the Fallen, but I found the Kunzel recording (in which he eradicated them) and everything became great about that beautiful piece of music. It stirs me up just as patriotic rememberence music ought to. The melody itself is to die for.

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I always hated the wailing women toward the end of Hymn to the Fallen, but I found the Kunzel recording (in which he eradicated them) and everything became great about that beautiful piece of music. It stirs me up just as patriotic rememberence music ought to. The melody itself is to die for.

Wailing women? I can't hear any. There's some choral bits, but that's about it.

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Ever since high school Patton has been one of my hands down, all time favorite films. One of the greatest biopics and war films ever made. The score is also one of my favorite Goldsmiths. Easy winner on both questions.

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I think I saw Patton in middle school. Don't remember much aside from George C. Scott's incredible performance. Goldsmith's score is fantastic, but Spielberg and Williams get my votes. It sits comfortably in my #2 spot for Best Spielberg Film/Best Williams Score.

with your vast library of blu I figured you'd have the best picture from 1970.

the battle sequences are simply amazing and not an ounce of cgi. this isn't a criticism of SPR because I don't remember any CGI in it.

Everything you see on screen in Patton was filmmed on screen. It's an amazing work. The performance in general are all top drawer.

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I think I saw Patton in middle school. Don't remember much aside from George C. Scott's incredible performance. Goldsmith's score is fantastic, but Spielberg and Williams get my votes. It sits comfortably in my #2 spot for Best Spielberg Film/Best Williams Score.

with your vast library of blu I figured you'd have the best picture from 1970.

It's on a long wish list.

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Patton's main theme is legendary! As nice as Saving Private Ryan is, it doesn't match Goldsmith's theme for Patton. Patton isn't always to my liking though (like the dense parts) although its incredibly effective in film. Both scores have their merits and their faults, but I think in the end I think Patton is the winner for score.

As for films, both films are fantastic. I love Patton, but SPR is what I deem the better movie.

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As much as I love Williams' score, I don't think many people will remember the music in 20 years. I think the haunting echoplex trumpets from Patton will still be remembered in 20 years...maybe.

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I'm tempted to vote for SPR as movie...although it's a highly problematic film, it seems more gut-wrenching and meaningful than the proper and lean biopic PATTON.

As for score, there's nothing interesting in the boring one-dimensional solemnity of SPR, it's one of Williams' most meagre scores. Goldsmith crushes it in nano seconds.

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Wasn't it Williams who arranged that medley?

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yes it was, or Angela Morley.

Yeah Morley is more likely. She has after all arranged everything by everyone everywhere always. The first caveman drumming on a log has her to thank for the amazing arragements.
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According to the alwayrs reliable wiki, Conrad Pope is the arranger of this medley; he was asked by Good O'l JW.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conrad_Pope

For the 74th Academy Awards tribute to film music, John Williams asked Pope to reconstruct film scores to 20 classic films: Exodus, Casablanca, and Cinema Paradiso, to name a few. Mr. Williams has gone on to include this tribute to Hollywood's golden era as a staple of his concerts from Boston's Symphony Hall, to Avery Fisher Hall with the New York Philharmonic, and to the Hollywood Bowl,
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Both films and scores are so very different from each other that the whole thing is almost ppointless. You might as well compare "1941" with "Rudy". That being said, both scores underline their respective films perfectly. "SPR" is interesting in that there is no music in any battle sequence, which there is in "Patton".

JG's threefold ideas (the march, the trumpet motif, and the chorale) work very well to create a music-picture of a man that loved the idea of doing battle. If "SPR" is ultimately an anti-war film, then it could be argued that "Patton" is a pro-war film. Let's not forget that "Patton" is not a war film in the strictest sense, rather, it is a film about a man who happened to like to wage war. "SPR" contains no such characters; they just do what they do because they are told to do it.

"HTTF" is one of the very best pieces that JW hes ever composed, but the score lacks a cohesieve whole, which makes it a bit piecemeal. "Patton" has no such problem building to form a jigsaw puzzle of a score about a remarkable (if infiuriating) man.

My vote? Patton both times.

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Both films and scores are so very different from each other that the whole thing is almost pointless.My vote? Patton both times.

Hardly as they are considered by many to be the two best films taking place during WWII in the European Theatre.

Patton was one of my first ventures into a musical score outside of John Williams. I wore that album out. I was awed to finally see the Texas A&M Aggies marching band perform the theme with their intricate marching style.

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Now, battle between Patton and Tora! Tora! Tora! would be interesting. Same year, same composer, same genre, two terrific scores in two sparsely spotted movies.

Karol

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Both films and scores are so very different from each other that the whole thing is almost pointless.My vote? Patton both times.

Hardly as they are considered by many to be the two best films taking place during WWII in the European Theatre.

I meant "stylistically different", but if you want me to endorse my own argument, then one might as well compare "A Bridge Too Far" with "Europa, Europa".

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Both films and scores are so very different from each other that the whole thing is almost pointless.My vote? Patton both times.

Hardly as they are considered by many to be the two best films taking place during WWII in the European Theatre.

I meant "stylistically different", but if you want me to endorse my own argument, then one might as well compare "A Bridge Too Far" with "Europa, Europa".

no because those two are obscure and have little following.
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Williams' Saving Private Ryan score is absolutely masterful. It is extremely intelligent, compassionate, tactful, and in my opinion quite possibly the finest, sincerest, most profound musical response to a war movie in all history.

Goldsmith's Patton is a perfect, very cleverly thought out score to an outstanding film. To me, what's interesting about making this comparison, is that it highlights some of the differences between two of the true titans of film scoring. I personally find the Patton march perhaps the least compelling aspect of that score. Goldsmith's strength (to my mind, anyway) is his conceptuality, his overarching idea of a score, and I think Patton sports one of the clearest examples of Goldsmith's skillful use of extreme economy in terms of building blocks. However, Williams' response to Saving Private Ryan works on so many other, extra-cinematic levels. Simply put, his work stands alone, and deals with war (in a musical perspective) very soberly, emphasizing not heroicism, but loss. And I think this is a more truthful take on the reality of war. Goldsmith's Patton is a pitch-perfect musical portrait of one of the most charismatic and enigmatic figures of WWII, but speaks rather falsely beyond this particular facet (nor did it intend to address anything beyond Patton and the bio-pic afforded him, of course). This is not meant to detract from Goldsmith's glorious contribution, but it does serve to further emphasize the magnitude of Williams' artistic voice.

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Williams' Saving Private Ryan score is absolutely masterful. It is extremely intelligent, compassionate, tactful, and in my opinion quite possibly the finest, sincerest, most profound musical response to a war movie in all history.

Goldsmith's Patton is a perfect, very cleverly thought out score to an outstanding film. To me, what's interesting about making this comparison, is that it highlights some of the differences between two of the true titans of film scoring. I personally find the Patton march perhaps the least compelling aspect of that score. Goldsmith's strength (to my mind, anyway) is his conceptuality, his overarching idea of a score, and I think Patton sports one of the clearest examples of Goldsmith's skillful use of extreme economy in terms of building blocks. However, Williams' response to Saving Private Ryan works on so many other, extra-cinematic levels. Simply put, his work stands alone, and deals with war (in a musical perspective) very soberly, emphasizing not heroicism, but loss. And I think this is a more truthful take on the reality of war. Goldsmith's Patton is a pitch-perfect musical portrait of one of the most charismatic and enigmatic figures of WWII, but speaks rather falsely beyond this particular facet (nor did it intend to address anything beyond Patton and the bio-pic afforded him, of course). This is not meant to detract from Goldsmith's glorious contribution, but it does serve to further emphasize the magnitude of Williams' artistic voice.

It basically boils down to this -- both are great WW2 scores, but for different reasons!

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Williams' Saving Private Ryan score is absolutely masterful. It is extremely intelligent, compassionate, tactful, and in my opinion quite possibly the finest, sincerest, most profound musical response to a war movie in all history.

Goldsmith's Patton is a perfect, very cleverly thought out score to an outstanding film. To me, what's interesting about making this comparison, is that it highlights some of the differences between two of the true titans of film scoring. I personally find the Patton march perhaps the least compelling aspect of that score. Goldsmith's strength (to my mind, anyway) is his conceptuality, his overarching idea of a score, and I think Patton sports one of the clearest examples of Goldsmith's skillful use of extreme economy in terms of building blocks. However, Williams' response to Saving Private Ryan works on so many other, extra-cinematic levels. Simply put, his work stands alone, and deals with war (in a musical perspective) very soberly, emphasizing not heroicism, but loss. And I think this is a more truthful take on the reality of war. Goldsmith's Patton is a pitch-perfect musical portrait of one of the most charismatic and enigmatic figures of WWII, but speaks rather falsely beyond this particular facet (nor did it intend to address anything beyond Patton and the bio-pic afforded him, of course). This is not meant to detract from Goldsmith's glorious contribution, but it does serve to further emphasize the magnitude of Williams' artistic voice.

It basically boils down to this -- both are great WW2 scores, but for different reasons!

But which one is better?

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SPR isn't a top 10 JW score, but I'd say Patton is a top 10 JG score.

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Williams' Saving Private Ryan score is absolutely masterful. It is extremely intelligent, compassionate, tactful, and in my opinion quite possibly the finest, sincerest, most profound musical response to a war movie in all history.

Oh I don't know, Oliver Stone's usage of Barbers Adagio for Strings in Platoon is arguably as profoundly effective a musical "response" to wartime conflict as Williams' original composition. Maybe even moreso.

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But Barber's Adagio, lovely as it is, isn't a response to anything particular, and certainly not WWII. It is a beautiful little piece of music that acquires a function as a bleak, perhaps tragic counterpoint to the images on screen. Oliver Stone puts it to great use, but that's neither here nor there. What I was referring to was the personal, artistic response of a composer to a (war) drama...

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I know what you meant, but I'd argue Stone's usage of the piece is still an emotional and philosophical "response" to war nonetheless. In terms of perception, Adagio for Strings in Platoon is at the least certainly the wider known musical response to war than something like Hymn to the Fallen - which was, as you say, directly inspired by it.

I guess what I'm trying to say is I personally find Adagio to imbue the more profound reaction, to war, and I expect it's that way for many.

I love Williams' SPR, btw.

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