The Classical Music Recommendation Thread

[MrJosh 651]

2 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

 

A tragically short career, dying at 47 from a heart attack, and unfortunately like so many of his generation in his final decade he was following the Pied Piper of Serialism.  I discovered him because he was one of Copland's closest friends.

 

If you enjoy Music for Piano, the other instrumental work of his that is closest in character is the Partita for wind quintet, which I highly recommend.

 

 

Thanks for sharing! I really enjoyed this too. Woodwind Quintet is my favorite chamber ensemble and this was great to hear. 

 

That's super sad that he didn't live past 47.

[Nick1Ø66 3412]

Probably been asked & answered here before, but which recording of Der Ring des Nibelungen does everyone like, and why?

 

Looking for recommendations!

[Jurassic Shark 9336]

Don't listen to Marian when he's going to diss the Solti cycle. It's great!

[Disco Stu 15468]

59 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

Probably been asked & answered here before, but which recording of Der Ring des Nibelungen does everyone like, and why?

 

Looking for recommendations!

 

I've been listening to the more recent Elder-Hallé cycle and like it quite a bit.  No idea what the Wagner die-hards think of it, but it was perfectly fine for my purposes: a nice sounding recording for someone who isn't interested in becoming a die-hard.

 

I'd be lying if I didn't admit that I was pulled in that direction by the very attractive cover art for each opera 

[Marian Schedenig 6220]

5 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Don't listen to Marian when he's going to diss the Solti cycle. It's great!

 

I'll give it another chance someday, but whenever I listened to bits of it, Solti seemed to take the whole thing too moment by moment, turning too many brief bits into climaxes. I prefer Karajan's big arcs.

[Nick1Ø66 3412]

5 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

 

I've been listening to the more recent Elder-Hallé cycle and like it quite a bit.  No idea what the Wagner die-hards think of it, but it was perfectly fine for my purposes: a nice sounding recording for someone who isn't interested in becoming a die-hard.

 

I'd be lying if I didn't admit that I was pulled in that direction by the very attractive cover art for each opera 

 

Added!

6 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Don't listen to Marian when he's going to diss the Solti cycle. It's great!

 

It's Solti I'm familiar with, but would like to try something different.

[Jurassic Shark 9336]

28 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

I'll give it another chance someday, but whenever I listened to bits of it, Solti seemed to take the whole thing too moment by moment, turning too many brief bits into climaxes.

 

It fits the music and makes it more interesting. I don't want too long arcs in a four-hour opera.

[Marian Schedenig 6220]

1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:

It fits the music and makes it more interesting. I don't want too long arcs in a four-hour opera.

 

I don't find them *too* long. I find Solti's too short.

(That's what she said…)

[Chen G. 2942]

22 hours ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

Looking for recommendations! @Chen G.? Aren't you a Wagner nut?

 

All Wagnerians are Wagner nuts. Its how we roll!

 

But I have to admit that - in keeping with Wagner's own ideas of "music drama" - I prefer to watch a Wagner opera than strictly listen to it. So yeah, I know the Solti and also the (unbelievably slow-tempo-ed) Goodall Ring and a few others, but when I think of the Ring, I think of performances I can watch like the Chereau-Boulez Ring, the Kupfer-Barenboim Ring, the Shenk-Levine, etc.. More recently, this was a really great Walkure. They don't even have to be staged: Opera North's Walkure was pretty aces, and I like this Rheingold.

 

For recordings, I recently stumbled across this excerpt (of what's easily my favourite part of the Ring) and will definitely look for the complete piece if I can find it: Basses often make great Wotans, and there are very few Wagnerian basses like ol' Salminen.

[Muad'Dib 1622]

 

[karelm 2587]

Speaking of the moon, I really love this brand new exciting piece by Michael Daugherty, Valley of the Moon.  I heard it over the holidays on a TV broadcast and it was fantastic but unfortunately, I can't find that performance anywhere and here it is just a mockup.  

 

 

[Schilkeman 126]

Michael Kamen does not get brought up enough around here, really underrated. Great orchestrator. 

[Disco Stu 15468]

Anyone ever listen to Josef Labor?

 

This quintet is very nice.  Perhaps lightweight, but that's exactly what I want sometimes.

 

 

[bollemanneke 2870]

Hope this can go here: Did DG ever release Karajan's 60s recordings of the Nutcracker and Romeo and Juliet on CD? I'm amazed Discogs isn't helping. No interest in the 80s recordings whatsoever and I'm obviously not buying the complete 240 CD set.

[Jurassic Shark 9336]

They did release his Wiener recording of the Tchaikovsky ballet suites, which is his best recording of the works.

[bollemanneke 2870]

When was that recorded? On DG?

[Jurassic Shark 9336]

61 and 65 on Decca.

 

https://www.discogs.com/release/1809238-Tchaikovsky-Karajan-Wiener-Philharmoniker-Ballet-Suites

 

[bollemanneke 2870]

Hmm, I still think that Berlin has more 'fire' in the Trepak, and the recording is definitely superior.

[Disco Stu 15468]

My favorite recording of Nutcracker is by Berlin, but the more recent Rattle recording from 15 years ago or whatever.

[Marian Schedenig 6220]

 

[Marian Schedenig 6220]

 

A bit like CE3K's The Conversation on steroids, and I seem to hear traces of Rosenman, too.

[bollemanneke 2870]

This is making me SO happy!

 

 

[Jurassic Shark 9336]

It's a great cycle!

[bollemanneke 2870]

Yeah, though I really didn't like his Jupiter. The only HIP performance that works for me is Jaap Ter Linden.

[Schilkeman 126]

I'm a full-on HIPster these days. I remember in college having a friendly argument with my theory professor about whether or not Beethoven should be played on period instruments. I said then that I thought Beethoven, of all composers, would want the bigger, more powerful sound of modern instruments, since he was so progressive as a composer, and constantly searching for new, better pianos and such. Years later, I heard Gardiner's Beethoven and did a full 180 on the spot. Beethoven had never made more sense to me.

 

I find all "big band" performances of anything pre-1860, or so, practically unlistenable, now. Too many compromises, no matter how competently performed.

[karelm 2587]

7 hours ago, Schilkeman said:

I'm a full-on HIPster these days. I remember in college having a friendly argument with my theory professor about whether or not Beethoven should be played on period instruments. I said then that I thought Beethoven, of all composers, would want the bigger, more powerful sound of modern instruments, since he was so progressive as a composer, and constantly searching for new, better pianos and such. Years later, I heard Gardiner's Beethoven and did a full 180 on the spot. Beethoven had never made more sense to me.

 

I find all "big band" performances of anything pre-1860, or so, practically unlistenable, now. Too many compromises, no matter how competently performed.

 

So, should Berlioz's Symphonie Fantastique be played with ophicleides instead of tubas that are used these days?  Should Handel's Messiah be played without women in the choir?  Should Bach's passions be played without dynamics?  It's important to understand conventions and limitations of the time but also do what the composer meant, not necessarily what they said.  To me, period performances are just an interpretative device.  Another point of view, not necessarily the better one.  

[Jurassic Shark 9336]

On 18/02/2023 at 1:07 PM, bollemanneke said:

Yeah, though I really didn't like his Jupiter. The only HIP performance that works for me is Jaap Ter Linden.

 

I go to Marriner for Nos. 40 and 41.

[bollemanneke 2870]

Me too until I discovered he had recorded them so many times that I couldn't find my favourite one on CD. We need a complete Marriner box set.

[Jurassic Shark 9336]

Just now, bollemanneke said:

Me too until I discovered he had recorded them so many times that I couldn't find my favourite one on CD. We need a complete Marriner box set.

 

That would be about 600 CDs, I believe.

 

Try his EMI Jupiter. It's great.

[Schilkeman 126]

2 hours ago, karelm said:

So, should Berlioz's Symphonie Fantastique be played with ophicleides instead of tubas that are used these days?  Should Handel's Messiah be played without women in the choir?  Should Bach's passions be played without dynamics?  It's important to understand conventions and limitations of the time but also do what the composer meant, not necessarily what they said.  To me, period performances are just an interpretative device.  Another point of view, not necessarily the better one.  

The modern tuba is a very robust instrument, like all modern brass, so yes, I would say use the ophicleides. Evidence shows that boys voices used to break much later than they do today. Unfortunately there is no real way (ethically) to replicate the sound of a teen boys choir. Women's choirs are the best compromise. Bach used sparing dynamic markings, true, but Bach was also not writing to be published, with repeatable performances by players who were not under his direct observance. 

 

The point of HIP is to be informed, as best as possible, of the performance practices of a time before recorded music, and applying that knowledge. Getting instruments that are as close as possible to what the composer heard in their time (and mind) is the first step. The second is learning how to play them. That's the part that trips up some of the lesser HIP orchestras, but there are lesser modern orchestras, as well, so I don't see a difference there. The third step is interpretation. This is the most subjective part, and requires solid scholarship on the part of conductors and performers.

 

To me, gut strings, natural brass, wood-mallet timpani, and wooden flutes sound correct for the music that used them. I wouldn't use them for Stravinsky, or Copland for the same reason. I also don't want a sforzando in Stravinsky to sound the same in Beethoven.

 

I'm not saying anyone is wrong for liking modern-instrument performances. You do you. There's enough fine performances out there for everyone. I know what I like, and I'm knowledgeable enough to know why. That's enough for me.

[Marian Schedenig 6220]

This seems a good opportunity to comment on the massive Gardiner Beethoven box I got for Christmas:

 

Took me a whole month to get through everything (with all the other new music I also had to listen to), and then I wanted to listen to some things again before solidifying my thoughts.

 

Not everything in the box is brilliant (unlikely with such a long list of works), but quite a lot is, and the rest is at least really very good. I was surprised how not so different most of the symphonies felt from the 60s Karajan cycle I grew up with. I'm happy to have both. Gardiner's versions are amazingly energetic and transparent. They've certainly given me a new appreciation for the 3rd and 5th which I had grown rather tired of over the years. The 9th doesn't necessarily convince me in every aspect (it's still hard to beat Szell); unlike with most of the other symphonies, some parts feel just a touch on the slowish side. On the other hand, the extra transparency Gardiner gets out of the fugues is stunning. It's certainly still a very fine recording.

 

The one part of the set that couldn't quite win me over are the piano concertos. The period piano just sounds a bit sad to my ears. I've only listened to each of those once though, so perhaps I'll get used to them.

 

Perhaps the biggest surprise for me: Leonore (the Ur-Fidelio) sounds unexpectedly modern. I'm mainly familiar with the Bernstein recording of the usual version, and after one listen, it's hard to say if it's more down to the performance or the differences in composition, but quite a few parts sounded more like Wagner than Beethoven to me. Being so famous for period performances, Gardiner keeps surprising me with modern (to me) sounds (see also his Planets).

 

The set also contains a bonus disc with "interviews" with Gardiner - in fact it's Gardiner giving interesting insights into his approach to this cycle. Which is what made me think of the set in this context, because his comments on period instruments fit well into this discussion. One thing is the balance of instruments that's significantly different with modern instruments, and indeed (as mentioned above) the transparency of these performances is stunning. As Gardiner says, the instruments aren't easy to play, but they weren't in Beethoven's time either, and the presumably correct tempi are pretty much the limit of what great musicians can get out of them. That's how Beethoven composed these works though, and if some parts sound a bit harsher/less smooth than on modern instruments, that's how it was meant to sound. (I'm not talking about flubs, of course)

 

Singing in a choir that often focuses on Renaissance and Baroque repertoire (next up: motets from the Song of Songs by Melchior Franck and and Leonhard Lechner - cool (and seriously lewd) stuff) is also frequently insightful. I remember a recent comment by our choir director that while it's important to understand how drastically interpretations have changed through the eras and how a specific bar of music was understood and meant to be performed at the time it was written, that doesn't mean the composers themselves got to hear ideal interpretations of their works. Musicians at the time, and especially choirs, quite likely were much worse than they are today, and thus many performances were probably authentic, but not necessarily good. Ergo, the key to a "correct" interpretation today is understanding how the score was intended, but still drawing on modern training and skill levels to deliver a good performance.

 

(Also, keep in mind that just because things like dynamics weren't explicitly notated at Bach's time, that doesn't mean all music was performed sameish-ly. Many rules and conventions were simply known, and adhered to, by the composers and performers - they simply hadn't yet invented writing them down)

[Schilkeman 126]

6 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

The period piano just sounds a bit sad to my ears.

I admit that the fortepiano is an acquired taste. I’m working on acquiring that full Bilson set, but I totally get some people just not warming up to that sound. It has a touch of the honky-tonk about it.