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Hans Zimmer - The Dark Knight Rises


Jay
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LOVE #5, classic Zimmer...but that's me ;-) almost like Bourne stuff....

5/4 like Isengard - if you remember that theme off of the top of your head.

The 5/4 in the bane chant is closer to mission impossible than isengard.

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LOVE #5, classic Zimmer...but that's me ;-) almost like Bourne stuff....

5/4 like Isengard - if you remember that theme off of the top of your head.

The 5/4 in the bane chant is closer to mission impossible than isengard.

I understand what you're saying. But they are all undeniably in 5/4 and that's was the only point I was trying to make.

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His Batman scores are just LOUD. These scores could be composed by some first year music student with a fail grade in some third rate music academy.

So you're a music professor then? Cormac McCarthy's formatting and lack of punctuation in his novels is technically incorrect.

(rant mode) Anyone who likes to listen to this shit apart from the movie has lost all taste in my eyes...

I haven't heard the score beyond the samples yet, but for the sake of argument: I have no taste? I like Morricone, Williams, Giacchino, Goldsmith, Horner, and..... ZIMMER *gasp* I guess all those other guys suck too, since I have no taste?

You can't comment on it being plastered in the background and not synching to picture.

It will sync up, that's what I am saying, its just a general composition. Take the action music in John Carter or Tintin or How To Train Your Dragon or any Elfman or Horner or Williams or Giacchino score, the music mirrors the action. This is how you get magical movie music moments like when Williams' crescendo syncs up perfectly with Tintin's punch to the henchman at the begining of Escape From Karaboudjan.

You say the score will synch up (without seeing the film, mind you) but proceed to criticize it for not synching up? What are you talking about?

Koray, don't be so hypocritical. You know what he means.You don't have to watch this film to know how it plays in the film. We have seen the first two films, and JNH's absence can only hurt the score's flexibility. Not that the first two were masterpieces of scene adaption anyway.Zimmer doesn't adapt his music to scenes or moments in scenes. The much hyped concept of Inception, that he did the music without watching the movie, that is how pretty much every Batman score of his played out.Considering the little work on syncing he did, and the simplicity of his compositions, and given the fact that he certainly had help on this score as well, you could rightfully ask why it took Zimmer more than a week to complete this.Seems like a pretty relaxed work.Putting it mildly.

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I think it's utterly fantastic. Is it the greatest film score ever written? Absolutely not. I think it's perfect for what Nolan was going for, and achieves what the film is setting out to be : Impending doom for batman. I can't wait to hear the bonus tracks via amazon & the enhanced CD. :up:

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You can't comment on it being plastered in the background and not synching to picture.

It will sync up, that's what I am saying, its just a general composition. Take the action music in John Carter or Tintin or How To Train Your Dragon or any Elfman or Horner or Williams or Giacchino score, the music mirrors the action. This is how you get magical movie music moments like when Williams' crescendo syncs up perfectly with Tintin's punch to the henchman at the begining of Escape From Karaboudjan.

You say the score will synch up (without seeing the film, mind you) but proceed to criticize it for not synching up? What are you talking about?

Its rather obvious what I am talking about. The music will sync up in a general way, like music fits montage. No big deal.

But it won't sync up with the film in a specific action-mirroring way like it does in superior scores.

That's why I call it wall-paper, its just uninspired wall paper music, compose and apply as you want in the background, not that removed from Trent Reznor's "scores".

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So mickey-mousing is superior all of a sudden? Give me something that enhances the picture rather than mimicking what's already been done by the director. This is what I was on about a little whiles back. No one has appreciation for anything that deviates from their singular approach to film scoring.

Btw, Inception synchs up in several key moments of the film.

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So mickey-mousing is superior all of a sudden? Give me something that enhances the picture rather than mimicking what's already been done by the director. This is what I was on about a little whiles back. No one has appreciation for anything that deviates from their singular approach to film scoring.

Btw, Inception synchs up in several key moments of the film.

So do Batman Begins and the Dark Knight. I find BB in particular to be very effective in the film.

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You ever notice that it's the really popular and successful movies that lack a "traditional" film score that gets the most people riled up, more so than comedies or chick flicks? Pirates of the Caribbean or Christopher Nolan's movies abandon thematically diverse, trumpet, flute, and violin heavy melodic scores in favor of electronic dissonance or heavy thump-thump power chords and bass, and it's the most terrible thing ever. Why is this "me too, me too" attitude so pervasive?

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I understand what you're saying. But they are all undeniably in 5/4 and that's was the only point I was trying to make.

Wasn't trying to be argumentative ;-) I just thought if someone who wasn't too musically educated heard the Bane rhythm and the Isengard rhythm mightn't associate the two. They're both 5/4 but very different rhythms, much like you can put a tango or a march in 4/4.

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#2 is very nice

the 5/4 in #3 is grating on my nerves

I would listen to #4 again, especially for teaching purposes

#5 LOVE

#6 meh, #7 meh

adding - 4, 5, 11, 15 are my favorite tracks - LOVE 11 and 15....to death actually

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So we get a Tron: Legacy situation with this one. There are some additional tracks when you buy it off Amazon, the iTunes bonus tracks, and then then there is another track that doesn't appear on any of those releases... These kind of practices me want to boycott this soundtrack altogether, even though I like the music more than the previous two (maybe except for the Joker's music). That's really annoying. No chance of me buying it three (or god knows how many) times.

Karol

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Just wait until the winter. I'm sure they'll do another expanded set like the last time.

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Troll mode:

Well at the very least even with two composers for two of the films and an apparent lack of skills, Hans Zimmer has maintained a level of musical cohesion between the films in this series far above anything the Maestro ever did.

*cough* prequels *cough* the jump from HP1 and 2 to the PoA soundscape. ;)

But seriously, I think overall, with the exception of most of Batman Begins, these have been solid scores.

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Troll mode:

*cough* prequels *cough* the jump from HP1 and 2 to the PoA soundscape. ;)

But seriously, I think overall, with the exception of most of Batman Begins, these have been solid scores.

Hmm never heard it described like that. Intriguing. Quite good actually.

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Due to the way you quoted me....I'm not sure what specifically you're referring to as a good description? That the music for The Dark Knight trilogy is cohesive? That it's more cohesive than the Maestro's work on things like Star Wars/HP? Or that there was an abrupt change in soundscape in each of the prequel movies and from the first two HP's to the third? ;)

But thanks!

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Having sampled the ost a little I'll share my thoughts.

4. Mind If I Cut In

Meandering plonks on the piano, probably good scene ambience but not very interesting as a listen; but what's this I hear, a baseline? Hmm it's beginning to sound like a melody - and developed to boot! Could it be Catwoman?

5. Underground Army

I'm three minutes older having listened to this cue.

11. Why Do We Fall

Trademark Zimmer pounding "believe" music. Probably Bats recovering from a set back and resolving to go in harder than ever. It'll stir audiences no end but unfortunately it's a part of Zimmer's repertoire which has grown tired and cliché for me.

15. Rise

More interesting. After the boy vocal, Gladiator-esque chello and horns administer the bed for the rest of the cue, broadly filling out the reflective mood to the edges like a blanket tucked under and over what is bound to be a stoic and pragmatic finale. It's just a shame the lower registers are artificially reproduced since I'd have appreciated the sweep more if I could discern the timbres and "imperfections" of the playing.

All in all, about what I was expecting. No doubt it'll work great in the movie, but I very much doubt this is a score I'd enjoy listening to outside of it.

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sorry Blume, I just meant that PoA was less thematic and i was agreeing but hadn't heard it described like that.

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11. Why Do We Fall

Trademark Zimmer pounding "believe" music. Probably Bats recovering from a set back and resolving to go in harder than ever. It'll stir audiences no end but unfortunately it's a part of Zimmer's repertoire which has grown tired and cliché for me.

Even Batman gets his own Rocky moment.

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[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ml85o05agQ

Listening to this now, I have to be honest... Zimmer did good here. Can't speak for the rest of the score/album, or how it works in the film obviously, but Rise is a good track. Even if it's largely a reprise of earlier films' material, this just got me pumped up for the movie.

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this score was a zzzz-fest. i'm sure it worked well in the movie and all, but there wasn't a whole lot going on musically. Great ambient and atmospheric sound, but that's about it. Given his previous works, he can definitely do a LOT better than this effort.

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I don't understand why Zimmer fans claim he is a great composer, while at the same time they are ceaseless in pointing out that his scores are supposed to work in the film, and nothing else.

A great composer writes music that is enjoyable and intelligent outside the film as well.

If you are a composer, and people say about you "it works in the film, and that is all it is supposed to do", you are most definitely not a great composer. Then you are a sufficient film score producer, but not a great composer.

If you work on movies on this level, matching the film is the most basic of all requirements, and not a cause for celebration.

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Rise affected me as a standalone piece of music, without a visual component to judge it against.

I certainly won't call him a great composer, but he did a hell of a job on that track.

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A great composer writes music that is enjoyable and intelligent outside the film as well.

If you are a composer, and people say about you "it works in the film, and that is all it is supposed to do", you are most definitely not a great composer. Then you are a sufficient film score producer, but not a great composer.

:thumbup:

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I agree with that sentiment, but that doesn't make it hard fact. Who am I to say what other people might find enjoyable and intelligent outside of the a movie? If I were a crusading cretin of bridge dwelling nuisance like gkgyver I might be convinced of otherwise, but I'm not.

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Who am I to say what other people might find enjoyable and intelligent outside of the a movie?

That's not the problem, here. gkgyver was responding to Koko who said this:

If it works well in the movie, how can he do a LOT better?

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I don't understand why Zimmer fans claim he is a great composer, while at the same time they are ceaseless in pointing out that his scores are supposed to work in the film, and nothing else.

A great composer writes music that is enjoyable and intelligent outside the film as well.

If you are a composer, and people say about you "it works in the film, and that is all it is supposed to do", you are most definitely not a great composer. Then you are a sufficient film score producer, but not a great composer.

If you work on movies on this level, matching the film is the most basic of all requirements, and not a cause for celebration.

Film composers write music for a film, not for overzealous film score fanatics. It's not the primary function of the music, nor is it the secondary; it's the by product of the process itself.

The primary function is to service the film, the secondary function is to do it well (something to celebrate depending on how well). If you fulfill both parts, awesome you composed a great score that enhances the picture from an audiovisual perspective, adding something to the overall whole that was absent prior. If you happen to enjoy this music apart from its intended use, that's good too.

How do you judge if a score is effective as a stand-alone listen? It's melodic, tense, exciting, etc? Whatever your taste is, you're looking for something in the music to please you, when that's not really in the composer's thought process at all.

I listen to film scores based on my taste as well, we all do. It's perfectly fine to say you don't enjoy listening to a particular score, but to brand it as ineffective scoring based purely on your musical taste is just clouded judgement.

Need I say again that no one here has seen this film? None of us are qualified to judge Zimmer's score.

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Need I say again that no one here has seen this film? None of us are qualified to judge Zimmer's score.

Rubbish! This means you can not judge a score if you have never seen the film. Most of us own scores without even having seen the corresponding movie.

Zimmer's score can be judged as a stand alone listen!

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I know that. But I know gkgyver's real agenda here.

Well, let us hear it then!What could be so intelligent about DKR? It is your good right to not even try discussing about the score's quality.However, to me, to insinuate that Dark Knight Rises might have any higher intelligence to it is an insult to good taste.

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C'mon man, you're a troll in this thread. Better left unfed.

Yeah, I thought so.Strong words about my "agenda" followed by empty statements.I know, I know, you don't want to judge a score's intelligence or enjoyment value. So be it. Even though I find it a bit cowardly, to be honest.If we stop evaluating music by, you know, its musical qualities, you might as well close this site altogether.Listening to this bores me to tears.When I compare this drone to Horner's Spider-Man ... Jesus, Zimmer isn't in the same universe.

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Miles, I agree. It's a great piece!

A great piece? Sorry, but "Rise" is just a rehash of material from The Dark Knight and Batman Begins. I find it amusing that what a lot of people consider as the score's best track has very little to do with new material conceived for this film.

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If it works well in the movie, how can he do a LOT better?

In all fairness, a LOT of things can work with the Nolan films. Droning with a single note could work. Zimmer's take works. Erik Woods once showed a video where he tracked certain scenes of Batman with Trevor Jones' score for Dark City and heck that was awesome!!!

So guess which is the better score? With today's films (especially with the Batman films), a wallpaper style music seems like a seamlessly perfect match simply because it doesn't hinder the viewing experience. As I said before, a lot of takes can work for these films. But it's a lot harder to make a great score. Zimmer's work is adequate at best if only because it doesn't hinder the viewing experience. Ultimately, its the film that carries Zimmer's score, not the other way around. So people who keep using the all-too-old excuse of "this works great in film" have to keep in mind that "working in context" is not all that determines a great score. There's a lot more to it. Zimmer's work could have fit the film a lot better too while retaining great musical qualities.

I'll post that video I was talking about once I find it again. Trevor Jones seriously would been a perfect match. He would have created a great score that still stayed well within the dark regions that Nolan's films demand while not being over-the-top.

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I don't understand why people always don't understand what they then spend a paragraph or two analyzing.

That sounds like a terrible way to get into an argument.

"LOOK MAN, I HAVE NO FREAKING IDEA WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON HERE. BUT YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY WRONG. HERE IS WHY:

~3 paragraphs later.

QED."

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I don't understand why people would find that understandable. But let me tell you, this is absolutely not understandable. You should get a clue. Loser.

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If it works well in the movie, how can he do a LOT better?

In all fairness, a LOT of things can work with the Nolan films. Droning with a single note could work. Zimmer's take works. Erik Woods once showed a video where he tracked certain scenes of Batman with Trevor Jones' score for Dark City and heck that was awesome!!!

So guess which is the better score? With today's films (especially with the Batman films), a wallpaper style music seems like a seamlessly perfect match simply because it doesn't hinder the viewing experience. As I said before, a lot of takes can work for these films. But it's a lot harder to make a great score. Zimmer's work is adequate at best if only because it doesn't hinder the viewing experience. Ultimately, its the film that carries Zimmer's score, not the other way around. So people who keep using the all-too-old excuse of "this works great in film" have to keep in mind that "working in context" is not all that determines a great score. There's a lot more to it. Zimmer's work could have fit the film a lot better too while retaining great musical qualities.

I'll post that video I was talking about once I find it again. Trevor Jones seriously would been a perfect match. He would have created a great score that still stayed well within the dark regions that Nolan's films demand while not being over-the-top.

The videos of Batman Begins with both Elfman and Trevor Jones music are in the second post in this there's at FSM - http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=70393&forumID=1&archive=0

Zack

Edit - they're great too.

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