John's darkdays with the Boston Pops and his resignation.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

We never talk about that here and I don't remember the whole story so I was hoping that the one of our posters here could fill me in.

I remember John resigned from the BPO in a dispute. Some members or a member had made disparaging remarks about the direction that John was taking the orchestra in, too many show tunes or something to that effect. Somehow the flak was smoothed over and John and the player/players made amends and John withdrew his resignation.

Anyone who knows the story, please tell it, I am sure many here know nothing about it.

[Hlao-roo 389]

I do recall reading somewhere that John Williams's tenure with the Boston Pops was "controversial," but the text didn't elaborate. I'd like to know more about it as well.

[Miguel Andrade 1,262]

I have a lot of Boston Globe articles about that.

I can make some of them available, but the story was about this:

Around 1983, when Williams signed a new contract, the rumor was that he didn't wanted to continue with the orchestra -- even if he always talked highly about them. Also, some members of the orchestra were unhappy with the selections the Pops were playing, and didn't really saw a necessity in the Pops season, artistic-wise.

Soem of this things made the tension grow, and in 1984, during a reharsal, things got nasty. After first part, were Williams conplained about the orchestra lack of concentration, they began playing Williams own "America The Dream Goes On" -- at some point some musicians begaun talking to each other, making fun of the piece -- wich i agree is not one of Williams finest, still this is quiet a lack of respect by the conductor and the composer.

Williams left the reharsall angry at that point, saying that he hadn't to put up with this sort of childish behaviour. On the following day, the Boston Symphony admnistration, got his resignation letter. The orchestra apologised right away.

Williams never talked much about this, and stayed in boston, keep conducting the orchestra untill the end of the season, and worked together with the orchestra and admnistration, in trying to solve some of the problems. At the end of the season he agreed in return for the following season (the 100th year of the Pops), after wich, everyone would discuss the situation again.

But Williams did satyed with the Pops, and the Pops stayed with Williams for almost another 10 years.

When he retired, in the end of the 1993 season, they even gave him the honor Arthur Fiedler dreamed of his whole life: conductor laureate of the Pops.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

thanks Miguel.

[Miguel Andrade 1,262]

You're very welcome.

[Justin 2]

I actually didn't know he wasn't with the BPO anymore. Thanks Miguel.

Justin -Who hasn't heard America The Dream Goes On.

[Miguel Andrade 1,262]

Williams anounced his ritierment in the end of 1993 season, on December '91. By the end of 93, the BSO admnistration anounced that Williams would be named Condcutro Laureated, and that he would remain conducting the Pops during 1994, while a sucessor was being looked for.

By the end of 1994, Keith Lockhart's name was anounced, and Williams steped down from the music directo podium. He remained as artistic advisor for the Pops and his corruntelly also Artist in Residence at Tanglewood.

[Hector J. Guzman 1]

Aside from film scores, what did the members were unhappy about?

[csiaspam 0]

By the end of 1994, Keith Lockhart's name was anounced, and Williams steped down from the music directo podium. He remained as artistic advisor for the Pops and his corruntelly also Artist in Residence at Tanglewood.

Keith Lockhart is a pretty cool guy. He conducts the Utah Symphony now and I've met him briefly at a few performances. His pants are too big though, the legs barely drag to the floor.

:yellow:

[Ren 75]

he's a poster boy. :roll:

[ocelot 508]

Is that poster or poser?

[Hlao-roo 389]

Is that poster or poser?

What's a poser boy?

[King Mark 3,626]

Aside from film scores, what did the members were unhappy about?

I doubt it was the film scores.Williams almost never conducted his own music on the TV shows when he was the principal conductor,that's why I never watched it.

K.M.

[King Mark 3,626]

When he retired, in the end of the 1993 season, they even gave him the honor Arthur Fiedler dreamed of his whole life: conductor laureate of the Pops.

what does that title really mean?.That he can do some concerts or be guest conductor on TV specials ?Can he still decide anything?

K.M.

[Eplicon 53]

A conductor laureate just a high distinction of honor, that the Boston Pops thinks Williams is a kick ass kind of a guy.

As for Williams' rift with the orchestra, Miguel pretty much pinpointed the main problems; most of it had to do with artistic differences. And the Pops, usually accustomed to more serious music under the affable baton of Fiedler, didn't think much of film music. I think Williams was also less fun loving than Fiedler, yet also was more demanding in the performance, which they weren't used to.

Obviously, they worked out their differences and pretty much enjoyed a healthy collaboration from that point on.

[King Mark 3,626]

, they began playing Williams own "America The Dream Goes On" -- at some point some musicians begaun talking to each other, making fun of the piece -- .

I understand how this piece would be crige inducing and laughable to some people.I *try* to ignore the lyrics when I listen to it.

K.M.Who would like an orchestral performance of this.

[Lurker 5]

I remember years ago my dad telling me how they booed him off the stage at one point. Interesting to know the details now.

Neil

[Morn 8]

As for Williams' rift with the orchestra, Miguel pretty much pinpointed the main problems; most of it had to do with artistic differences. And the Pops, usually accustomed to more serious music under the affable baton of Fiedler, didn't think much of film music. I think Williams was also less fun loving than Fiedler, yet also was more demanding in the performance, which they weren't used to.

Any chance of more details of the different types of music they performed?

[Trumpeteer 302]

Wow! John Williams has gotten upset! I swear I have never heard of an event that has caused JW to get angry and storm out of a rehearsal.

I guess I look at the life of John Williams with rose-colored glasses. I would assume he gets a little pissed at orchestras now and then, especially in scoring sessions involving musicians he has never met before and can't quite get his music right.

But still, it's a different image than I've ever seen or read.

Jeff -- who probably wouldn't like JW when he's angry

[Guest]

Yeah, I remember reading about this in the paper when it happened. Still, I didn't notice any significant shift in rep when Williams took over. Fielder programmed (and recorded) at least as many nauseating arrangements of Broadway showtunes as Williams did. Like K.M., I wasn't terribly interested in watching the Pops broadcasts (although I often did), since they very seldom performed enough film or classical music. Either would have been fine with me. I'm have absolutely no interest in Ann Murray, Dionne Warwick and Sammy Davis, Jr.

For the record, Fiedler was a far better conductor, and there are plenty of discs out there to attest to the fact. Then again, he was given a lot more chances in the recording studio to test his mettle against some real music. Aside from one or two exceptions (notably, a lame rendition of "The Planets"), Williams' recorded legacy with the Pops is one of almost unalloyed kitsch. A pity they didn't record more of his concert pieces.

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

Wow, they made Williams angry. They had to be annoying....

But at least they solved their problem...

[King Mark 3,626]

Some pops albums have only film music.

As for the rest,I bought each one for the 1 or 2 Williams pieces on each of them.I never listened to the rest.

K.M.Who just remembered to make his 1 space saving cdr compilation of Pops c.d.'s.

[Miguel Andrade 1,262]

The problems taht took Williams to resign, were already there during the Fidler years -- in fact, acording to Fiddler assitant, things were even worst then, but somehow, Fiddler was able to get things going... for amazing 50 years!

The sort of stuff the musicians conplained in 1984, regarding the Pops prgraming, were basically the same they did with Fiddler -- playing Pops concerts were beyond there dignity! They only wanted to play "real" concert music -- no Broadway or Hollywood tunes, or being only a backing ensemble for some pop guest. This was the thinking of some musicians, not everyone. The Pops may it possible to this hard working, classical trained musicians, to have a whole year employment. Otherwise, they would have to find soemthing to do -- to earn a living -- during the other six months. But Williams, together with the BSO admnistration and the musicians were able to solve this problems.

As for the Pops albuns under Williams, I do find them quite interesting and very well played. I do find that on the later years, Fiddler was lacking almost everything that made him so special -- and that reflected on problems with the orchestra, and the lack of a regular recording contract. And there are a number of Fiddler albuns than can very well be seen as pure kitsch. His recordings of Film Music can be particular painfull, with very porr arrangments, some of the times. One of the major contributions of Williams, was to bring new and more modern arrangements of some of this classical tunes. There is a interview on my site, in english, taken from the Boston Globe, by the time when he first arrived to Boston, were he talks about what he expects to do with the Pops, and all of that, I think he has achieved.

Laureated Condcutor is a honor title, that in partical terms means Williams will be gest conducting with some frequency. He remains being artistic advisor for the Pops.

And this was the first and only time I've had any info on Williams being angry with something or someone.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It's Fiedler, not Fiddler of Fidler.

Stefancos-

[Miguel Andrade 1,262]

Sorry, I wasn't paying attention.

[Guest]

Oh God, yes, Fielder recorded his share of kitsch. I won't deny that. His film music recordings -- and, *shudder*, Beatles arrangements -- were the WORST. But as far as light classics went, he conducted circles around Williams. In fact, I have only a few Williams/Pops albums which I find listenable from beginning to end. Well-played is one thing; good taste is quite another. Those Cinema Serenade discs are every bit as schmaltzy as anything Fiedler shat out. The Broadway stuff is even worse.

[Miguel Andrade 1,262]

You know, Guest, I totally disagree with you. I like a lot Williams Broadway recordings, mainly the first ones with Philips -- the Sony Classics's Pops on Broadway has some medleys I could have lived without.

And I love the Cinema Serenade albuns, mainly the second, with all those classic film themes. And the first one is amazingly well done too. As taste is concerned, yes, I agree, they had diferent tastes, still both great ones. Fiedler had a great arranger for that on Leroy Anderson, but for some reason Richard Hayman was also called for many of this... and we all know that some of his arrangements do lack any sort of taste!

One of the most amazing recordings Fiedler made was with Stan Getz. A live one. Williams also recorded many jazz standarts just as good as Fiedler.

Fiedler did record much more classical stuff, but then again, he was the orchestra leader for 50 years! That's quiet something. In his 13 year period, Williams did record almost 30 albuns with the Pops, also an amazing thing, considering, this was something of a part time job! Maybe Fielder classical recordings are better because of his greater experience... Or then again, maybe they are both great, just diferent!

In the end, I think Boston loves Williams, as once loved Fiedler... and still does. As taste matters, well, everyone has his own.

[Rogue_Leader 2]

Williams resigjned from the orchestra?? When did this happen?

Anybody got a year? Maybe I missed it.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

William, read Miguel's original post.

[Guest]

So what was the reason behind his actual retirement in 1992 or whenever that was?

[Guest]

touch my willy

[Guest]

Ocelot shall you take this one or shall I?

LOL

[Miguel Andrade 1,262]

So what was the reason behind his actual retirement in 1992 or whenever that was?

He wanted to concentrate his time in other things, like reading and walking in the park. And compose more for the concert hall.

[Rogue_Leader 2]

OK I just re-read Miguel's original post. Very nice and very jnformative.

[Hector J. Guzman 1]

Aside from film scores, what did the members were unhappy about?

I doubt it was the film scores.Williams almost never conducted his own music on the TV shows when he was the principal conductor,that's why I never watched it.

K.M.

Well, you wouln't be conducting your own music all of the time, now wouldn't you?