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The Dark Knight Rises SPOILERS ALLOWED Discussion Thread


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Well, Spanish-sounding country names are quite easy to come up with. You just have to use San/Santo/Santa/Costa and add a spanish-sounding word after that. Santo Perro, Santa Cuchara, Costa Palabra...

Saw the film a while ago and for some reason never posted my thoughts, so here they are Cliff Notes: A disappointing final chapter So I loved Batman Begins and loved The Dark Knight even more. I rece

I think that was an excellent choice, particularly after the absurdly loud mix when Batman and the Cat are going through the tunnels.

I originally thought it was "Deshi Deshi Basura Basura"... But I prefer the Moussaka version better.

«Bane, Bane mátalo, mátalo, Bane, Bane, mátalo, mátalo...»

It sounds a bit odd, but I think it would have worked well in the spanish dubbing.

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Not quite on topic, but check out this interview of Tom Waits. Sounds familiar? (skip to the 1:30 mark)

[media=]

Btw, how do I embed youtube videos?

Edit: never mind, it embeds automatically.

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SawDark Knight Rises yesterday...appeared to be a three hours documentary on terrorism - not exactly my thing. Batman didn't even have the chance to shine, being beaten twice by Bane (who's appeared to be a whining puppet in the last moment). Screenplay big chaos. Music as generic as it comes. Very low entertaining value. All pointless.

Disappointing, 5 out of 10. BB I would still rate 8.5 out of 10.

I absolutely hated the fact at the end when they tried to humanize Bane. There was no need for that.

I thought it strengthened the character, personally. After having a main antagonist in TDK that was hardly even a person at all with Joker without any room for sympathy, it was nice to have a villain with some semblance of a heart underneath the monstrous exterior. I thought Hardy really sold it with the tears. It also kind of puts Bane's motives in a whole new light in so much as he was trying to honor Talia through fulfilling what her father set out to do.

Yet he hated her father because he was expelled from the League?? No logic.

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I know we want more action, more fights, louder music etc. from the sequels but this "more violence" goes too far.

You'd get along with my mom. She loathes TDK, specifically its violent and dark nature. She thought it should've received an R-rating instead of the PG-13 it got here in the United States.

Honestly, I felt TDKR is more tamer than TDK. Even with Bane snapping necks and bashing heads in.

Sadly, I agree with your mom on the R rating... actually, if it had any blood it should have been R. It was pretty close to getting there though.

Give me a break. Most of the violence in this film is implied and the language is pretty tame as well.

You don't want to show your kids movies you don't approve of, fine, but don't try to force everyone to have to follow your rules. Movie ratings really need to be reevaluated, as everyone has different views and the ones that the MPAA seem to hold can be quite ridiculous at times and movies are suffering because studios are so intent on getting that PG-13 that movies suffer because of it. I still am having trouble figuring out why ROTS was PG-13, as the burning body wasn't even that graphic and I am sure that if I saw that as a 7 year old I wouldn't think much differently than I did at 18.

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Loved this movie. What a satisfying way to tie things together. I like that everything came full circle, every past element was brought to completion (well, except for the Joker, of course). It's a little less self-reliant than TDK was, but that's acceptable for a final act. I'm so glad that Nolan finally made a good third film. Seriously, when has that ever happened before?

The only bad part was "Get the president on the phone!" I almost laughed at loud. Truly terrible. No big deal though! Oh, and I wish there had been more violence. More blood, anyway. It was a little unbelievable to see so many people die without a drop of blood. The sanitization was almost at a KOTCS level. But, unlike that film, this film still depicted the violence really well.

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I think that was an excellent choice, particularly after the absurdly loud mix when Batman and the Cat are going through the tunnels.

What? I can't hear you!

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

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Was anyone else bothered by the fact that there was no music during Batman and Bane's first fight?

That was the one thing that took me out of the movie.

The uncomfortable "fish out of the water" feeling was I think was exactly the reason why they went for that. One of the best scenes in the film, if you ask me.

Karol

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I like the whole bar scene with Selina. Anne Hathaway is brilliant in it. And I really like the way she suddenly turns at the beginning of the film. That one shot when she says "oops". Inspired casting choice. Who would have thought I'd ever say that?

Karol

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Was anyone else bothered by the fact that there was no music during Batman and Bane's first fight?

That was the one thing that took me out of the movie.

It probably took you out of the movie becasue the score is otherwise so irritatingly loud.

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I like the whole bar scene with Selina. Anne Hathaway is brilliant in it. And I really like the way she suddenly turns at the beginning of the film. That one shot when she says "oops". Inspired casting choice. Who would have thought I'd ever say that?

Karol

Yes I like her scenes a lot. Like the epic eyeroll when John Blake says they can offer her protection. I wasn't sure at first about the actress but seeing the film I was convinced.

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Generally the scenes with Selina Kyle were great. I enjoyed her intro, and I loved the bar scene. Bane in the first half was fantastic, but he soon loses the audience's interest. And I loved the scene with Bane breaking Batman's back.

It's a little less self-reliant than TDK was, but that's acceptable for a final act. I'm so glad that Nolan finally made a good third film. Seriously, when has that ever happened before?

Uhmm, plenty of times. The following were better made third films:

- Return of the King

- Bourne Ultimatum

- The Good, the Bad, the Ugly

- Toy Story 3

Having said that however, TDKR is a satisfying (yet disappointing) conclusion.

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It probably took you out of the movie becasue the score is otherwise so irritatingly loud.

That could be it. When the score wasn't there, it was quite obvious. I was thinking more about the dramatic impact (not that the scene isn't dramatic on its own, it just seemed like an odd place to decide not to have music). I kept waiting for some epic fighting music to happen.

The uncomfortable "fish out of the water" feeling was I think was exactly the reason why they went for that. One of the best scenes in the film, if you ask me.

Karol

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the scene isn't good or effective because it didn't have music, but I don't think what you're saying is the reason. I mean, Nolan did the exact same thing during the Harvey/Joker chase scene in TDK, where most (if not all, I can't remember right now) of that sequence had no score. Again, it just seemed like an odd decision.

Is there a similar sequence in BB, where something important is happening but there's no music? I can't remember.

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SawDark Knight Rises yesterday...appeared to be a three hours documentary on terrorism - not exactly my thing. Batman didn't even have the chance to shine, being beaten twice by Bane (who's appeared to be a whining puppet in the last moment). Screenplay big chaos. Music as generic as it comes. Very low entertaining value. All pointless.

Disappointing, 5 out of 10. BB I would still rate 8.5 out of 10.

I absolutely hated the fact at the end when they tried to humanize Bane. There was no need for that.

I thought it strengthened the character, personally. After having a main antagonist in TDK that was hardly even a person at all with Joker without any room for sympathy, it was nice to have a villain with some semblance of a heart underneath the monstrous exterior. I thought Hardy really sold it with the tears. It also kind of puts Bane's motives in a whole new light in so much as he was trying to honor Talia through fulfilling what her father set out to do.

Yet he hated her father because he was expelled from the League?? No logic.

At no point does he express hatred for Ra's. He explicitly states more than once that he wants to fulfill Ghul's destiny by destroying Gotham.

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Well, I reserved my final judgement on the film until I've seen it twice, and today was the second time.

Ok, here it comes.

This movie is fucking epic. As much as I dislike the music, the films themselves are, in my not so humble opinion, modern classics, and they could rightfully be called the best superhero films ever made (yes, sorry, Mr. Donner).

That Batman does not get a lot of screentime doesn't bother me one bit, because the story is interesting, and excitingly told.

Amazing Spider-Man was good, but I'm afraid this is just miles ahead. Anne Hathaway is fantastic as Selina Kyle.

I also liked how they carefully prepared a possibility for Batman and Robin, even if it's a fictitious continuation since Nolan won't do another one.

While the film is fucking epic, the music is a fucking mess.

The most effective choice of music in the movie could very well be the lack thereof in the first fight between Bane and Batman. It doesn't add to scenes, no nuance can be found in the heap of the always same electronics and low block chords. There was one effective scene with music in it in the whole film, and that was "Why Do We Fall". It simply dupilcates what is on screen, not very elegantly so, and at times not even that.

Also, I find that the spotting was the worst of all three films, especially in the first 2/3 of the movie. And in the last third, there is so much action that you can copy-paste anything in there.

If there ever was an example of how ridiculous overscoring can hurt a film, this is it. In the beginning already, when Selina and Bruce meet, the score is so crushingly unsubtle.

It's like every scene with people talking is scored with slow, soft dramatic chords, and every action scene wuth fast, loud dramatic chords.

There is no feeling for scene pacing, for the flow of sequences ... Easily the worst of the three scores.

The two note motif doesn't change, ever, so Zimmer's talk about it "now making some sense" is trash talk. If a musical piece does not develop on its own from beginning to end, there is no chance for it to ever "make sense" on its own, it can simply and humbly accept whatever meaning the movie gives it.

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I guess I'm alone in saying I generally liked the score. Thought the film was a disappointing mess, though. I was a BB/TDK fanboy, so I came into the film wanting to love it, but... They just made it so hard. Talk about unfocused ambition.

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Well, I reserved my final judgement on the film until I've seen it twice, and today was the second time.

Ok, here it comes.

This movie is fucking epic. As much as I dislike the music, the films themselves are, in my not so humble opinion, modern classics, and they could rightfully be called the best superhero films ever made (yes, sorry, Mr. Donner).

That Batman does not get a lot of screentime doesn't bother me one bit, because the story is interesting, and excitingly told.

Amazing Spider-Man was good, but I'm afraid this is just miles ahead. Anne Hathaway is fantastic as Selina Kyle.

I also liked how they carefully prepared a possibility for Batman and Robin, even if it's a fictitious continuation since Nolan won't do another one.

While the film is fucking epic, the music is a fucking mess.

The most effective choice of music in the movie could very well be the lack thereof in the first fight between Bane and Batman. It doesn't add to scenes, no nuance can be found in the heap of the always same electronics and low block chords. There was one effective scene with music in it in the whole film, and that was "Why Do We Fall". It simply dupilcates what is on screen, not very elegantly so, and at times not even that.

Also, I find that the spotting was the worst of all three films, especially in the first 2/3 of the movie. And in the last third, there is so much action that you can copy-paste anything in there.

If there ever was an example of how ridiculous overscoring can hurt a film, this is it. In the beginning already, when Selina and Bruce meet, the score is so crushingly unsubtle.

It's like every scene with people talking is scored with slow, soft dramatic chords, and every action scene wuth fast, loud dramatic chords.

There is no feeling for scene pacing, for the flow of sequences ... Easily the worst of the three scores.

The two note motif doesn't change, ever, so Zimmer's talk about it "now making some sense" is trash talk. If a musical piece does not develop on its own from beginning to end, there is no chance for it to ever "make sense" on its own, it can simply and humbly accept whatever meaning the movie gives it.

Epic

Epic

Epic

Overuse. ;)

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Watched the film for the third time on IMAX last night. This film is great in IMAX, but watching it again, I once again noticed all its flaws and just wish the film was better than it was. Regardless, it's a fun blockbuster.

I thought it was good. Unoriginal, but good. And it worked wonders for the film.

Worked wonders?! Say that for the other Batman scores sure, but Zimmer's score was awful in context. So many "cut and paste" tracks that completely glossed over sync points in the film. Watching it the third time, I was incredibly surprised at how often Zimmer missed the mark. The previous films had far better scores than this one.

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TDK's score was much more adjusted to the film and worked well. This one doesn't. The only part where I remember positivelly noticing the score on film were Wayne's attempts to get out of the pit, inluding the final statement of the two note idea once he's out.

We should have a poll about Catwoman themes. :stir:

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I was being ironic, silly. Of course, I liked the film. Not the best Nolan and somewhat flawed (small details, really), but still one hell of a movie that needs to be watched on big, big, big screen.

I would see it more times, but the film didn't earn me seeing it again at the theater.

I'm quite surprised to hear that from you.

Karol

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Saw it in IMAX the other night and really enjoyed it more the second time around. The first hour flows a lot better once you've seen it I feel and even though its very dense, I think it works better on repeated viewings. The only bit that really bothers me is the stuff with Miranda when Bruce gets back to Gotham. One minute she's taken by Bane and the next she's with Fox in the Wayne hideout then back again being held by Bane. You could argue that she went back to see what's going on but I don't feel the sequence works in the film. Something is just wrong with the way things flow in that area of the film, otherwise I think its quite an enjoyable experience and while not as good as The Dark Knight, I feel its still a good film and honestly without Ledger no film had the chance to be better.

I can't agree more about the music in this one though. I really like the themes and motifs in these films, but the music doesn't correspond to the action far too much in this film. I still wish JNH would have come back and finish the trilogy, as he may have kept things a little more contained to the action. Overall though, the Rises scene is quite good and the music really adds a sense of triumph to the scene, and Catwoman's theme is just the right amount of playful.

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Saw the film a while ago and for some reason never posted my thoughts, so here they are

Cliff Notes: A disappointing final chapter

So I loved Batman Begins and loved The Dark Knight even more. I recently re-watched both films this summer for the first time in 3 years and possibly liked them even more than I had before (actually, I probably liked Batman Begins a little more and The Dark Knight a little less). I went into this 3rd and final chapter with a completely open mind, ready to take in the entire film and then pass judgement after. I had avoided all spoilers and while being aware of a lukewarm response overall, I hadn't read any specific reviews.

The new film's opening plane sequence was fine I suppose. A far cry from the bank robbery prologue of The Dark Knight but at least it wasn't a re-tread of that either. But then it almost immediately started going downhill. What follows felt like 45 minutes of poorly-handled exposition, a million new characters introduced, and the old characters acting WAY out of character compared to how they were before. Commissioner Gordon writing down a speech laying out Harvey Dent's true nature 8 years later? That would have happened either right away or never. Bruce Wayne still mopey 8 years after Rachel died and hasn't dated anyone since? Alfred waiting 8 years to tell Bruce the truth to try to get him out of his funk? I just felt uncomfortable, these didn't feel like the natural progressions of these characters. And I seriously had trouble keeping track of all the new characters, including who they were working for and who was working for them and what goals they were trying to accomplish. And I was never confused for a moment by any of The Dark Knight's plot.

Anyway Bane starts causing havock everywhere so Bruce eventually decides to put the suit back on for a fight and car chase that is honestly not very memorable. Then he decides to let Selina lead him to Bane and fight him mano-a-mano. What? Another vastly out of character move. Walking into enemy territory with no upper hand against a guy clearly your physical superior? Even if he won, he'd be surrounded by Bane's goons. Ridiculous. Then comes Bane's take-over of Gotham which was actually handled well, despite some nagging questions (How did he know what floor of Wayne Enterprises all the Bat- tech was stored on? Really - EVERY cop in Gothan ended up in the sewers? Please! And the ENTIRE city is only supplied by 5 bridges? In 3 months NO ONE found another way in/out?)

While the city is under Bane's rule for 3 months, Bruce is in a prison healing his back and trying to climb out of the prison's only opening. I get the symbolism but the details were wonky. Couldn't he have just climbed the rope all the way to the top and not even needed the walls at all? And once he gets out, how the hell does he get back to the USA, get back into Gotham, get into Wayne Manor, get his Bat gear, and then get right into the thick of things undetected?

Obviously at this point Batman is going to save the day, and the final battles and chases and fights are fine I suppose. Why Batman challenges Bane to another mano a mano fight fight I don't understand. Catwoman saving him at the last minute was not handled well and felt cliched.

But then something happened. Somehow I enjoyed the end - like the final 5 minutes - so much it almost made up for the slooooooooow, confusing, melodramatic mess I had just watched. I really enjoyed all the final revelations - that he was alive, that he was with Selina, that Robin found the Bat Cave - a lot, and left the theater fairly happy. Until I got home and time went on and I could still only think about all the flaws the movie had.

One of my biggest problems with the movie was that it's not a Batman movie! It's not even a comic book movie! Seriously, this is just a crime/action film. Take out Batman and replace him with generic action hero and the entire movie would have worked perfectly fine. Compare to The Avengers, which was an entire movie of super-powered heroes fighting other super-powered heroes and aliens with their super powers. Obviously that style would NOT work here. But at least Batman Begins and The Dark Knight had some cool comic book-y elements, some cool gadgets for Batman to use, some cool just-out-of-reach sci-fi tech, etc. This had The Bat and.... that's it. Don't get me started on the idea of a program that wipes out your entire criminal history on every computer in the world!

Enough about the bad, what did I like? Well, the best part of the film is easily Anne Hathaway's performance as Selina Kyle. She is sexy, intriguing, sympathetic, and vile at various times, and pulls it all off. The only confusing part was, she is living with some other girl in the movie, and they never explain who she is - sister? friend? roommate? daughter? lesbian lover? No idea!

I also really enjoyed Joseph Gordon Levitt's character. Somehow all his scenes were very enjoyable and I wanted things to work out for him, and the reveal that he will either be Robin or Batman if this universe continues was great.

But man, I HATED that he knew Bruce was Batman because he looked in his face and knew the Bruce persona was his mask. WTF was that shit? Even when Gordon figured out Bruce was Batman because Bruce said "you put a coat on a child once". WTF?

As I mentioned before, the film was also way, way too long. It could have easily been 2 hours and told the same story with no bloat. All the scenes with Robin trying to save the orphans on the bus could have been nixed. That is so obviously cutting room floor material! The entire first act needed to be tightened up. The subplot with the feds infiltrating Gotham only to die at the end of the scene could go. Etc. Learn to cut the fat from your films Nolan! The scenes you cut can live on in Special Features or Extended Cut land, but make that theatrical presentation lean and mean!

I guess overall, I like the film's BASIC arc - That because Batman took the fall for Harvey Dent's murders and the death of Dent himself, the city has entered a period of barely any crime and Batman feels he is longer needed, but in the end he is revealed to be the true hero and is seen to have sacrificed his life to save the city one final time only to be revealed to still be alive - that's a good arc, that's the perfect way to end the trilogy. It's just the DETAILS of how that arc was handled was done so very, very poorly here. Too much exposition, too many out-of-character actions, too dense of a plot with too many characters, and too much was a retread of Batman Begins. Don't even get me started on revealing Marion Cotillard is Ra's Al Ghul's daughter and evil only to kill her off 5 minutes later, and how that reveal also means the super-bad-ass-to-that-point was just a puppet. Awful awful awful.

Alred being absent for most of the movie was a bad idea. Gordon's family being omited was a bad idea. Oh! Another HUGE out of character moment was Lucius Fox putting his hand-print on the Reactor to power it up for bane. NO! He would have taken the bullet to the head rather than let Bane get ahold of that weapon. Awful!

I'll see it again and hope I like it more, but the more I think about my first viewing the more disappointed I am.

Oh wait, I almost forgot to mention the music! One of the things I noticed when I re-watched Batman Begins and The Dark Knight this summer was just how bad the scores to them really are. I mean, its really bad! Sometimes its just there doing nothing, which is more or less fine, but other times it is so loud and obnoxious and not the appropriate scoring for the scene it really stood out. I mean, generally if I don't like a score it just doesn't even register for me. I just leave the film not wanting to check out the OST because I didn't remember it. But with the first two Batman films, I actually had several moments where I sat there thinking "This music is so wrong for this scene - AND its awful music!"

So how do I feel about the music in The Dark Knight Rises? Well contrary to a lot of opinions here which said the movie was spotted wrong and had many LOUD obnoxious moments....... I have to say I have no opinion on the score! Seriously, I just didn't even notice it the entire movie. I never felt it was too loud, I never felt there was music playing when there didn't need to be. >shrug< Maybe it was because I saw it in a normal film theater that isn't the most up-to-date (and certainly wasn't IMAX), I dunno. But like the other films, I am not compelled even a little bit to check out the score outside the film.

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You pretty much nailed most of the problems that I had with this film (as can be witnessed on my initial rantings). Although I would say JGL's character is amongst the film's flaws, rather than its strengths.

I'll see it again and hope I like it more, but the more I think about my first viewing the more disappointed I am.

Exactly how I felt after my first viewing. Having loved the first two films, I was really bummed out coming from the theaters. I was able to enjoy it more for what it was in my 2nd viewing. But for my 3rd, I sort of retracted back to my initial state of disappointment. There was so much potential to this film, but as much as I wanted to like it more, I couldn't help but think back to how much of a mess the saga's conclusion ended up being.

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