The Dark Knight Rises SPOILERS ALLOWED Discussion Thread

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Wow!

Three wrong posts in a row

[crocodile 8,012]

Thanks for the write up, Jason. It's an interesting read. However, most of your gripes come down to one thing, which you do point out yourself anyway: It's not a comic book movie. And that's something that is either relevant or irrelevant, depending on how you look at it.

Actually, the film draws really heavily from at least three Batman comic book storylines:

Knightfall, in which Bane starts his masterplan to destroy already weak, depressed Batman by freeing all Arkham inmates and exhausting him to the point when he virtually can't fight back and gets beaten badly for like 20 pages. And yes, his back gets broken as well. Bane then takes over the city.

No Man's Land, in which the city is cut-off from civilisation, and Batman is absent for several months. The streets are overrun by criminals and the tribe-like wall tag-oriented culture emerges. Batman must earn respect in this new strange enviroment.

Finally, the much celebrated The Dark Knight Returns. Batman returns after ten years, much older, and comes back to for his last (well, back then) adventure. You get some politics, a bomb, another chaos like situation in Gotham with Batman leading an army (and even riding a horse!) and, obviously, a fake death at the end.

The links between Bane and Ra's Al Ghul also come from the comic book. It is all there.

The pacing doesn't bother me. The sprawling story is OK, almost Dickens-like, but if you think about it, it all makes sense within this series, bone plot and tone-wise. It's just basically one story, taken a step further and, yeah, taken to its natural conclusion. The pacing is actually quite fast. I watched it four times now and I see how one scene leads to another and to another. There is very little plodding actually. It's because the Batman is not there a lot. And yes, we've already establish that's exactly what you wanted from this film. But he wasn't a lot in neither BB and TDK.

Only the small bits bother me in the film. Lines of dialogue, plot inconsistencies. But The Dark Knight was plagues with that as well. If you don't believe me, watch it again. The Dark Knight Rises ultimately suceeds for me, because it works on an emotional level. The world and setting will always require some sort of suspension of disbelief. But what is great is that it all makes for a complete story, which is quite rare, I think. In fact, Batman not kicking ass for most of the film makes perfect sense in the larger story.

Oh there is a great interview with Nolan brothers and David S. Goyer about the writing in the book collecting all three screenplays (The Dark Knight Trilogy). It's available as a Kindle book. If you don't want to buy it, just download the sample and that text is included in it. I think it might help you understand a little bit more what were they aiming for. And no, the comic book film wasn't it.

Overall, I like the film because it's unlike any other big blockbuster I will watch this year (or in most years). Even if failed, it tries to go somewhere. Not my favourite Nolan film at all, but I appreciate its bold intentions and ambition. Much respect. Which is exactly what Prometheus didn't give me and why I detest this thing so much.

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Jason really just wanted a better version of The Avengers. Not a summer blockbuster that actually deals with some heavy handed themes.

[crocodile 8,012]

Well, I said initially, that's exactly what can bother some people. Even I wasn't sure at first. But remember that I watched the film about an hour after reading some news. It was bound to disturb me in one way or another.

Karol

[Quintus 5,399]

What's a heavy handed theme?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance!

[Quintus 5,399]

They're themes, yes. Are you saying Nolan is heavy handed in his handling of them?

[Ren 75]

Great write ups! I'll digest then reread...

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Wow!

Three wrong posts in a row

Why can't you accept the inconvenient truth, Dutchman? Nolan has nuked the Bat with this one!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

My opinion says differently!

[Ren 75]

Who says your opinion is the correct one?

[Incanus 5,714]

I bet it is the god of Stefan's own small universe, Stefan the Omniscient!

[Ren 75]

Ok. As long as we are clear

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Who says your opinion is the correct one?

Be silent! Keep your forked tongue between your teeth!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

My opinion says differently!

I was stating a fact. Whether your opinion says differently or not doesn't matter.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Facts and Bloodball are not friends!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Facts and Bloodball are not friends!

You're quite right. They aren't friends. They're lovers.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

And you are the one that takes it in the ass!

[Ren 75]

Isnt it behind your teeth?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Depends on the gap!

[Ren 75]

:eyeroll:

[Jay 37,363]

Jason really just wanted a better version of The Avengers. Not a summer blockbuster that actually deals with some heavy handed themes.

No, not at all. I didn't want anything close to an Avengers-like level of comic book battles. I wanted a film that was consistent with the tone and style of the first 2 entries. I wanted gadget/sci-fi elements like: The device that calls all the bats to come to you; The sky hook; city-wide cell-phone voice location; EMP machine; etc. And how about radio receiver in his bat ears? This film had NOTHING sci-fi or fantastical except his new flying machine. Huge disappointment.

Batman is supposed to be a detective. He did barely any detective-ing in the first two films, and absolutely none in this film. He was almost a side-character in his own movie until he saves the day at the end. His actions never moved the plot along at all. Bane did what he was gonna do regardless of what Batman did.

And seriously, every fight in this movie was either with fists or guns. I prefer the toxic gas, ninjitsu type stuff, and hoisting back guys up from the darkness of the first two films than another shootout or fist fight in this movie. The brief scene where Batman and Selina enter Bane's lair was exactly what I'm talking about - and it was handled GREAT - but it had to of been less than 30 seconds!

[crocodile 8,012]

I like the idea that he's stripped off most of his gadgets and he wears the same exact suit as in the previous film. It makes it somewhat more dramatic. Remember, that is this film is about Batman being exposed and everything is taken away from him. The new gadgets wouldn't fit with this story very well.

It is simply not the tale you'd like to see. But, again, I appreciate their audacity to take such a risk with the character and explore his weakness and vulnerability. It's rare. It would also cheapen the ending of the last film, if he was just fine in this one.

But yes, it would have been great to see the great Batman detective story. There are some elements of it in this trilogy, but not as much as in, say, TAS.

Well, I'll see the film one more time in IMAX in two weeks. This time I made sure I sit right in the middle at the top. I don't really need to see it again, cause I have formed my opinion on it already. But the spectacle of this big IMAX screen is a major attraction. It gives me the experience that 3D claims to do, which is completely immersing you in the image. I want to experience that again, it's so rare in feature films. I feel like a kid again, watching a film like this.

Karol

[Jay 37,363]

I absolutely plan on seeing the film again and giving it a fair chance to impress me differently. It certainly deserves a second chance just based on how much I love the first two

[KK 3,307]

I sometimes felt this film strayed a bit too far into an almost Marvel-like territory with the flying Bat sequences, the multitude of cliche lines, the logical fallacies and the all-too-familiar "get rid of the bomb" scenario". The grounded, almost-tame nature of the previous 2 films allowed Nolan to explore a lot of cool ideas (like the Joker teasing with anarchy) which ultimately made the films so very appealing. I loved them both, especially The Dark Knight. With The Dark Knight Rises, there is a lot of potential to the concepts Nolan wishes to present. But the melodrama is raised to such extremes that you can't buy into it and the film makes several missteps like the lazy execution of JGL's knowledge of Batman's identity, or Gordon suddenly remembering a random flashback about putting a coat around a kid (which is probably something cops do often) whom he never bothered to get to know through they years of Wayne's life. And with its logical fallacies, its overbearing reliance on flashbacks, a few pacing issues and the direction of the development of certain characters (ex. Bane's disappointing humanization), it's almost hard to take the film seriously if you know what I mean.

I loved the first two films, but wasn't too happy with this one. Hopefully what I said above made some sense.

Hey, I just realized I'm over 2000 posts!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[KK 3,307]

But the melodrama is raised to such extremes that you can't buy into it and the film makes several missteps like [...] Gordon suddenly remembering a random flashback about putting a coat around a kid (which is probably something cops do often) whom he never bothered to get to know through they years of Wayne's life.

That really rubbed you the wrong way, didn't it? I don't know how many times you mentioned it, but I'm sure that was quite a lot.

Yes, it most certainly did. I found it very pedestrian But seriously, it's such a stupid scene! Lot that up with JGL's little "I always knew it was you.." moment and you've got some really lazy writing there...

Personally, I don't think that's something cops do often (well, at least not here, in Europe). It feels so cliché, I can't believe that it's something they do even in the US or Canada. I mean, first, they'll need to have a coat, so if they don't have a coat, they wouldn't able to do it, obviously. Second, what's the point of putting a coat around a kid? Well, if it's in winter, I could more or less understand, but even then, they're inside a bloody police station! It's not like there is no heating system or something like that!

I never understood that whole "putting a coat around a kid's/woman's/man's shoulders" thing in films, anyway. The character is cold as shit, and you think by just putting a coat on his/her shoulders, it's gonna make a difference? Fuck that! It's bloody stupid.

Haha. But it happens in film enough to let it pass. Still incredibly stupid though...

[gkgyver 1,645]

I didn't find many illogical things in the film, really. Where are they?

The most astonishing question I asked myself was during Bruce's time in the pit, why is there a rope hanging down for people to climb up? Who puts it there? Would be kind of stupid to just leave an escape device there.

We see the rope fall down once, who placed a new one?

Did one of the imprisoned place it there? And if so, he would have to escape the pit in the first place, which renders the whole "nobody ever did it except one" story kind of absurd.

It was also a "huh?" moment when Bane flew Bruce all the way from Gothan to Africa just to place him in that pit.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It's the symbolism Jason!

[Jay 37,363]

The most astonishing question I asked myself was during Bruce's time in the pit, why is there a rope hanging down for people to climb up? Who puts it there? Would be kind of stupid to just leave an escape device there.

We see the rope fall down once, who placed a new one?

Did one of the imprisoned place it there? And if so, he would have to escape the pit in the first place, which renders the whole "nobody ever did it except one" story kind of absurd.

Yes I asked that above. Why was anyone using the walls at all when all they had to do was climb straight up the rope?

[indy4 155]

I didn't find many illogical things in the film, really. Where are they?

The most astonishing question I asked myself was during Bruce's time in the pit, why is there a rope hanging down for people to climb up? Who puts it there? Would be kind of stupid to just leave an escape device there.

The idea is that giving people false hope by letting them see the sky and see a potential way out (the rope), the prison will be even more torturous. It's knowing that something you want is so close, and that you'll never attain it.

For me personally I think I would prefer that, as looking forward to something is a nice way to distract myself from a current unpleasant situation, no matter how unlikely that future event is. But I could imagine why other people might find it really painful.

[Jay 37,363]

But that's the point - the rope isn't just a potential way out, it's a easy way up. Just climb up it.

[ComposerEthan 8]

I didn't find many illogical things in the film, really. Where are they?

The most astonishing question I asked myself was during Bruce's time in the pit, why is there a rope hanging down for people to climb up? Who puts it there? Would be kind of stupid to just leave an escape device there.

The idea is that giving people false hope by letting them see the sky and see a potential way out (the rope), the prison will be even more torturous. It's knowing that something you want is so close, and that you'll never attain it.

For me personally I think I would prefer that, as looking forward to something is a nice way to distract myself from a current unpleasant situation, no matter how unlikely that future event is. But I could imagine why other people might find it really painful.

According to the novelization, the rope was always there and it says the rope is only a little ways up; it doesn't go all the way to the top.

[indy4 155]

But that's the point - the rope isn't just a potential way out, it's a easy way up. Just climb up it.

Oh, was it not attached to the ledge that prisoners have to jump from?

[King Mark 3,631]

How did he jump out of his hovercopter in time before the bomb went off. They show a shot of him sill in it like 5 seconds before it blows

Plus he was stabbed 5 minutes before

[Hurmm 91]

Actually the shot of him right before the explosion isn't necessarily in the cockpit. It was just framed to look like that.

[WarMachine 0]

Hello all. Just registered here, though I have been a semi-regular reader of these forums since last spring in anticipation of the new release of "Hook". I like film music and obviously John Williams is the favourite, duh.

On the subject of The Dark Knight Rises, I liked the movie so much that it inspired me to write my first ever movie review.

Rambling Musings on The Dark Knight Rises

[tannhauser 101]

Welcome!

[Ren 75]

Proof

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

That's great Ren.

What i like about the film is that the title makes sense. Before The Dark Knight Rises was considered a bit of a lame title. Just a way of not calling it The Dark Knight Returns.

But it genuinely fits the film.

[Incanus 5,714]

Hello all. Just registered here, though I have been a semi-regular reader of these forums since last spring in anticipation of the new release of "Hook". I like film music and obviously John Williams is the favourite, duh.

On the subject of The Dark Knight Rises, I liked the movie so much that it inspired me to write my first ever movie review.

Rambling Musings on The Dark Knight Rises

Welcome my fellow Finn! (or I am assuming that based on your name)

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Not another one?

[Brónach 1,302]

I haven't seen the film again, but thinking of the film it occured to me that putting Wayne on the prison without money, and expecting him to escape and go back to Gotham so he can be stabbed by the woman that had sex with him before to make him suffer a little more is a very stupid plan.

[Delorean90 42]

They didn't expect him to come back. When the bat symbol is lit up on the building, Bane says, "Impossible!"

[Brónach 1,302]

Oh. I think I needed to see it again. Anyway, it managed to stay in my mind, which is a good thing.

[crocodile 8,012]

I've watched it again, for the fifth time, yesterday. It was an IMAX showing. This time I was sitting right in the middle in the very last row, which is the best place to be. It didn't really change my opinion on the film, though.

Karol

[Quintus 5,399]

No shit Karol, I was coming in here to make a joke post having noticed you were the most recent poster in here. I was gonna take the piss and say, "just seen it again for the fifth time, huh Croc? Oh sorry, my bad."

And what do you know... you actually have!

How does it feel to give Warner Bros fifty pounds of your own money to see one movie?

[crocodile 8,012]

If I was to spend that money on booze, it would have been seen as perfectly normal, bizzarely.

Karol

[Brónach 1,302]

If I was to spend that money on booze, it would have been seen as perfectly normal, bizzarely.

[Quintus 5,399]

Fifty quid on booze is guaranteed to be a far better night out than Batman, I assure you of that!