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So Ridley Scott is directing a Prometheus sequel... (The official Alien: Covenant Thread)


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IMO, it's a masterclass in "how not to go about things". I only like two little thingies about it.

 

1) The footage where we see a group of superbeings running away in panic. It's like we would see Supes being scared of someone, or something, but we don't know what. 

 

2) Janek (Idris Elba): "Hey, uh, Vickers. Hey, Vickers. I was wondering ... Are you a robot?" ... That's the only moment/interaction in the movie that felt natural to me. The rest of the acting was 'let's pretend'. 

 

 

That's it. Everything else was annoying.

 

 

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Sonically, and visually, PROMETHEUS is a good film. 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, AC1 said:

Janek (Idris Elba): "Hey, uh, Vickers. Hey, Vickers. I was wondering ... Are you a robot?" ... That's the only moment/interaction in the movie that felt natural to me.

If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with :)

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You can talk and talk and talk. Lambast the new Alien films left and right. I don’t care. Wake me up when or if anyone wants to have a serious discussion about the films.

 

To anyone else: here’s my middle finger.

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Why does this thread continue to grow?😳

 

Hey Thor....

When you are up against a near indestructible alien, you don't " split up"- you gather your forces and face him as one .

That's a " serious" discussion .

😉

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Thor, that's rude. Let's all be friends here. Share our different opinions of media, not insult others for having one different than your own. Thanks! 

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2 hours ago, bruce marshall said:

Why does this thread continue to grow

It's amazing how a crappy movie like this can inspire heated discussions years after its release, isn't it?

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11 hours ago, crumbs said:

Prometheus is a good film. Certainly thought-provoking. It's no masterpiece but there's plenty to like about it, and even more to study/analyse.

This!

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Sure, Edmilson and Holko like you, but Prometheus wouldn't be that much better if the crew was a little bit smarter. Not with those characters, or that dialog, or with a director on autopilot.

 

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19 hours ago, crumbs said:

Prometheus is a good film. Certainly thought-provoking. It's no masterpiece but there's plenty to like about it, and even more to study/analyse.

 

What thoughts does it provoke in you?

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That's just it. I don't think that it is "so bad", or, indeed, bad, at all.

What I'm more interested in, is knowing why Thor refuses to engage, on this subject. I always thought that all posts on any subject were "serious". Yes, some can be a little facetious at times (I hold my hands up, here), but, imo, all posts in all threads, are inherently serious. All posts are trying to make some sort of point.

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30 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

That's just it. I don't think that it is "so bad", or, indeed, bad, at all.

 

 

You have too much of Thor in you.

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I’ve just grown tired of defending these films. It’s disheartening to enter this thread just to encounter a barrage of negativity every single time. Maybe it’s better I stay out of it altogether; or create a new “appreciation” thread wherein we can discuss their various qualities, philosophical underpinnings etc. 

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Now, just a damn minute!

I've said nothing negative about PROMETHEUS. A lot of JWfaners have defended this film.

If one truly loves and appreciates a film then, imo, one would always wish to "defend" it.

 

 

 

12 minutes ago, Thor said:

...create a new “appreciation” thread wherein we can discuss their various qualities, philosophical underpinnings etc. 

Sorted :)

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It isn’t even the negativity/different viewpoints,  but that there is so much ridicule and cheap one liner dismissals. I’m all for a constructive discussion, although - again - my defense stamina has run out on this issue. What I would love, and what would be great, is an analysis and discussion thread on these films that comes from a place of appreciation.

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48 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Haven't seen the prequels, but I suspect they're miles better than the neverending bunch of superhero movies being released.

 

The comparison really isn't apt though. I think the success or failure of a film comes not in comparison with another film, but how well it succeeds for what it's supposed to be. By that metric, most of the MCU films are a success on their own merits (IMO, and I say this as someone who's not a particularly big fan).

 

Both Prometheus and Covenant have ambitions at having deep, philosophical themes, but most of it comes across as pretentious nonsense.  Of the two, I think Prometheus has some things going for it, but Covenant is a seriously compromised movie.  In any event, Alien is a better crafted film than either of these, period, and by the time a Xenomorph (or whatever they're calling them) is  head bashing the window of an in flight spaceship in a scene that looks like it could come from a Terminator flick, its readily apparent that Scott lost the plot.  And both Prometheus and Covenant are missing a key ingredient that made Alien & Aliens so compelling: compelling human characters.  Other than David (who's not human) is there even one in the prequels? Spoiler: there’s not.

 

It's a pity though, because as someone who is sick of superhero movies and wants more thoughtful science fiction on the big screen, I was hoping for more with both of Scott's Alien prequels. I'm glad he made both these films, but am disappointed in the way they turned out.

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Great comment Crumbs! Just a few thoughts...

 

26 minutes ago, crumbs said:

I just like the concepts it raises with regards to conception, life, ownership of one's creations, artificial intelligence becoming sentient.

 

Yes, but aren't these well-trodden themes in science fiction, that have been addressed many times (and better) in other movies and TV shows? I just don't think the themes are that thought-provoking, except in the most superficial way.

 

26 minutes ago, crumbs said:

I admire the film for at least trying to be different and having something to say, in an age of carbon copy remakes, reboots and superhero films that all follow the same four-quadrant-friendly template.

 

 

As I say in my comment above, I agree with this. I admire and appreciate the fact that Scott at least attempted to do something ambitious with the opportunity he was given. If the films weren't part of the Alien franchise, with Ridley Scott directing, they probably don't get made. Aside from Nolan and maybe Cameron, I'm not sure who in Hollywood has the clout, and desire, to make films like these.

 

26 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Ironically, the major issues with Covenant were a direct studio reaction to the complaints people raised with Prometheus. Shoehorning the xenomorph into that third act was the weakest element of the film; all the other creatures and ideas were vastly more interesting.

 

Again I agree, that's why I called Covenant a compromised film. It's clear Scott felt compelled to introduce the Xeno sooner than he planned, either b/c of studio pressure or pressure on himself.

 

To be clear, neither film is awful. I actually find a lot of things to like about Prometheus, and even Covenant has its moments. But both movies fall well short of what they aspire to be, in my opinion, and that makes both profoundly disappointing.

 

 

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20 minutes ago, mstrox said:

Just dropping in to say Prometheus>Alien>Aliens.  Never seen the others.

 

Good job figuring out the chronology.

 

1 hour ago, Nick1066 said:

The comparison really isn't apt though. I think the success or failure of a film comes not in comparison with another film, but how well it succeeds for what it's supposed to be. By that metric, most of the MCU films are a success on their own merits (IMO, and I say this as someone who's not a particularly big fan).

 

You're misunderstanding. I was talking about what's objectively better, according to me. :) 

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35 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

You're misunderstanding. I was talking about what's objectively better, according to me. :) 


Well then you mean subjectively better, don’t you?

 

And how how can you be subjective or objective when you haven’t even seen them! You know nothing!

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1 hour ago, mstrox said:

Just dropping in to say Prometheus>Alien>Aliens.  Never seen the others.

 

Not sure whether you're joking, but I'd probably agree as Prometheus is the only Alien film I've seen, and I loved it. I'm also one of about four people who loved Streitenfeld's score.

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26 minutes ago, Nick1066 said:

You know nothing!

 

He's too busy posting at JWFan. 

 

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4 hours ago, Thor said:

It isn’t even the negativity/different viewpoints,  but that there is so much ridicule and cheap one liner dismissals. I’m all for a constructive discussion, although - again - my defense stamina has run out on this issue. What I would love, and what would be great, is an analysis and discussion thread on these films that comes from a place of appreciation.

@Thor Hm. To be honest, I read your comments around these movies that says that you like these movies a lot. I read your Prometheus review, that also says that you like the philosophical background of it. And here is where we completely disagree. Because I see no philosophical depths in Prometheus. I keep hearing that it is interesting without hearing what is actually so interesting about it. I would like to know, what actually the point is of this picture, in this thread or in another one. I am really interested. 

I don't think, that I am stupid and to me Protheus was a pseudo-philosophical lame rehash in the Alien franchise. I don't see, what should be philosophically interesting about the picture. But I am willing to learn.

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45 minutes ago, Koray Savas said:

You don’t think the concept of exploring deep space to meet your maker, learning about humanity, and then seeking out to essentially kill “God” is philosophical or interesting?

 

Not when that god acts like a common monster. It's funny to me that people who don't see anything in 2001: ASO or Blade Runner somehow find Prometheus endlessly deep and meaningful. 

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38 minutes ago, Koray Savas said:

You don’t think the concept of exploring deep space to meet your maker, learning about humanity, and then seeking out to essentially kill “God” is philosophical or interesting?


Who said anything about Star Trek V?

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3 hours ago, crumbs said:

For the record I don't think Covenant is a trainwreck. It's certainly uneven and I think a far more interesting follow-up to Prometheus went begging. Killing Shaw off-screen and implying she became David's science experiment (or some proto-Queen to create the Alien eggs) was a cruel outcome for her character after everything she endured, made worse that her infertility was a plot point in the last film (salt in the wound, and clearly intentional from Scott). Yeah, David is a sociopath (I think he made reference to her inability to conceive during Covenant), and Fassbender nailed that performance, but it's a little exhausting watching his trail of destruction and descent into madness as the driving force of the prequels.

 

It's so nasty and cynical, it really turns me off. I think it's not so much the subject matter, but Scott's approach to it. And it's a total copout.

 

I used to say I heavily disliked Prometheus, but loved it. I think most of the criticisms against it are completely warranted, but dammit, seeing a glossy, REAL, sci-fi movie that's actually about something, with all the planet-exterior-shots-with-solo-oboe trappings to go with it,  in the 2010s? Yes please! 

 

Shortly after the movie came out, Wayne Shorter said that he felt Scott hit a bunt with Prometheus so he could hit a home run with the sequel. I completely agreed...but we never got a real sequel, that actually committed to taking on what Prometheus posed. I remember around the time of its release, Scott mentioned how he wanted to use its place in the Alien universe as the basic stepping point to launch into a totally new direction...but as has been said before, the studio intervened, and whaddaya know, we end up with an actual Alien prequel.

 

It will never happen, of course, but I'd still love a Prometheus 2.

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39 minutes ago, AC1 said:

Not when that god acts like a common monster. It's funny to me that people who don't see anything in 2001: ASO or Blade Runner somehow find Prometheus endlessly deep and meaningful. 

I mean, Kubrick is on an entirely different level to Scott, in my opinion. Though I do like all 3 films.

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5 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Kubrick was full of shit, but a master at wrapping it in.

 

Any examples to back up your wild claim? 

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4 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

@Thor Hm. To be honest, I read your comments around these movies that says that you like these movies a lot. I read your Prometheus review, that also says that you like the philosophical background of it. And here is where we completely disagree. Because I see no philosophical depths in Prometheus. I keep hearing that it is interesting without hearing what is actually so interesting about it. I would like to know, what actually the point is of this picture, in this thread or in another one. I am really interested. 

I don't think, that I am stupid and to me Protheus was a pseudo-philosophical lame rehash in the Alien franchise. I don't see, what should be philosophically interesting about the picture. But I am willing to learn.


That’s fine. I obviously disagree with you completely. Both films are ripe with audiovisual and philosophical firepower.

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