Lincoln SCORE Discussion thread

[Muad'Dib 1,802]

There's a long Lincoln, and it happens every day....

[Jay 37,361]

I was talking about The Long Goodbye. I have not heard the Lincoln soundtrack.

[JamieC 13]

Have you seen this ?

http://www.amazon.com/Lincoln-John-Williams/dp/B009A9EPLM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1348643983&sr=8-1&keywords=John+Williams+Lincoln

JC

[Jay 37,361]

Surely it will come down in price closer to release date. I expect it to be $9.99 on Amazon like Tintin, War Horse, and the 80th Birthday Special ended up being

Glad to see the November 6th date I exclusively premiered weeks ago confirmed

Here is the pre-order link on all the various Amazons

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B009A9EPLM/

http://www.amazon.ca/dp/B009A9EPLM/

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B009A9EPLM/

http://www.amazon.es/dp/B009A9EPLM/

http://www.amazon.de/dp/B009A9EPLM/

http://www.amazon.it/dp/B009A9EPLM/

http://www.amazon.fr/dp/B009A9EPLM/

http://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B009A9EPLM/

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Score CDs on average are $12 on Amazon. Great prices.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

I wonder when we can expect samples.

[Jay 37,361]

Sony just sent me the cover art, which will be added to the main page soon as a JWFan Exclusive Premiere. Remember how close Roald's fan-made covers for Tintin and War Horse were before the official one came out? Think along those lines for Lincoln as well

[Muad'Dib 1,802]

Can't wait!!!!

[lester1231 11]

[BloodBoal 7,538]

That's Roald's cover.

[Sandor 797]

That's Roald's cover.

No, it's not.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Ah, right. My bad. But, hey, that's your fault for making covers too close from the official ones!

[Jay 37,361]

Where did you find that? It hasn't been added to the main page yet!

EDIT: Nevermind, I see it's on the Amazon listing now, which has also dropped to $14.29

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B009A9EPLM/

Anyways that is the same cover Sony sent me, which is now on the main page

http://www.jwfan.com/?p=4950

[Josh500 1,615]

Am I going to get this? Hell, yeah!

Am I excited about this score? Well, yes, but somehow I am only half as excited as when I was before the release of Tintin (or War Horse, for that matter). I wonder why. Is it due to the serious nature of this film or am I gradually but certainly losing interest in JW and film scores? I hope it's the former.

[KK 3,307]

It's likely the former. With Lincoln, we're pretty certain of what we're getting. But with Tintin and War Horse, that wasn't the case considering we had little knowledge of how Williams would approach the project. And boy did he deliver!

With a film like Lincoln, it's pretty straightforward when it comes to the score and there's only so much you can leave to your imagination.

[Incanus 5,714]

I wouldn't say Tintin and War Horse were so unpredictable in their approach either but they were still brilliant scores.

[Brónach 1,302]

I imagined how Tintin would sound like but I had no idea about War Horse.

[KK 3,307]

They weren't completely unexpected. But the Lincoln product will certainly be far more predictable than those two. I mean I didn't expect the jazzy bits in Tintin (that opening cue was a surprise to me) and the "Far and Away" tone from War Horse was also a delightful surprise, especially all that flute work!

Ultimately, you could expect more variety and diversity when it comes to films like Tintin and War Horse. There's only so much you can stray from straightforward pastoral Americana when it comes to films like Lincoln.

[lester1231 11]

Anyways that is the same cover Sony sent me, which is now on the main page

http://www.jwfan.com/?p=4950

Compared with these two, I found yours is better than I found.

[Hlao-roo 389]

Williams didn't compose or conduct his music this time!

I wouldn't say Tintin and War Horse were so unpredictable in their approach either but they were still brilliant scores.

Brilliantly predictable!

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Tintin was basically the Williams H³ (Home Alone/Hook/Harry Potter) style + an accordion.

War Horse wasn't much different from his modern dramatic music, except it had a cue that was ripped off from a play.

As Belloq or Darth Vader might say, you know it's true.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Tintin was basically the Williams H³ (Home Alone/Hook/Harry Potter) style + an accordion.

Yes.

War Horse wasn't much different from his modern dramatic music, except it had a cue that was ripped off from a play.

No.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

It's soulful, but what really sets it apart from, say, Angela's Ashes, The Patriot, Far and Away, Schindler etc.? It's still Williams we've heard before. They were both fun, but I highly disagree they were in any way unexpected or unpredictable. They weren't a departure for Williams. As modern Williams scores go, I'd say Minority Report, Geisha and maybe War of the Worlds were the most diverse. And he had already dabbled in that eastern sound for Seven Years in Tibet, I think.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

War Horse is very much a Williams score, yes, but I felt it was an unexpected move forward for him. It's not as drastic a change as 1993 was previously, but I think he reached another level with this score. It's hard for me to describe, but it should be clear how different it is from Angela's Ashes and Schindler's List. Those two alone are drastically different. A splash of Far And Away, definitely, but I found it to be a surprisingly fresh score after the dull Kingdom Of The Crystal Skull and Tintin.

Lincoln will decide whether it was a one time deal or if it's a new style for the new decade.

[King Mark 3,631]

I'm not sure what you guys are expecting. It won't be drastically different from his established style.

I'll either be one of those you listen to often, or one that you only re-visit once in a while

[KK 3,307]

I'm not sure what you guys are expecting. It won't be drastically different from his established style.

I'll either be one of those you listen to often, or one that you only re-visit once in a while

This.

[Sandor 797]

It's soulful, but what really sets it apart from, say, Angela's Ashes, The Patriot, Far and Away, Schindler etc.? It's still Williams we've heard before. They were both fun, but I highly disagree they were in any way unexpected or unpredictable. They weren't a departure for Williams. As modern Williams scores go, I'd say Minority Report, Geisha and maybe War of the Worlds were the most diverse. And he had already dabbled in that eastern sound for Seven Years in Tibet, I think.

I think?

So exactly how sure are you whether Williams' scores are 'predictable' or not? Just because Seven Years In Tibet and Memoirs Of A Geisha have an Asian flavour, doesn't mean they're copies or anything remotely like that. But I guess this is how you reason: Seven Years In Tibet and Memoirs Of A Geisha = Asian-style scores = (must be) identical scores. I doubt you're even familiair with the music. Angela's Ashes, Schindler's List and War Horse = dramatic scores = identical scores (they both feature strings and stuff like that).

You couldn't be more wrong man.

Exactly what would it take for you to appreciate a score like War Horse from a innovative perspective? When Williams had scored if for 17 drumkits? When Williams had used Joe Satriani to play the electric guitar solos? When he had asked Lady Gaga to sing the theme song? War Horse was Williams reinventing himself quite a bit. Not in Earth shattering ways, but Williams returned to a more simple, pure melodic approach with non-complex, basic chords and harmonies. This is vastly different from, let's say, Angela's Ashes or Schindler's List. The 'Remembering Emilie' theme alone is written in an idiom seldomly chosen by Williams. It's the simple and direct melodic structure that gives War Horse a sense of fresh air and sets it apart from many other of Williams' dramatic scores.

But I guess it could only find your approval if Williams had done something radical like adding hip-hop beats. Only then would someone like you call it 'unexpected'.

The same goes for Tintin. It is fresh and the first time I heard it I thought to myself: "This is Williams doing something I've never heard before". The unpredictable nature rests more in the nuance of the action material and the slight stylistic changes from his previous scores.

I feel Williams' music is always changing. Not revolutionary, but evolutionary. That's why Williams probably couldn't write Star Wars today and he couldn't write Memoirs Of A Geisha back in 1977.

He's truly a remarkable composer who doesn't deserve this 'Williams is too predictable'-crap. The man is as diverse a composer as they come.

[Jilal 569]

Well said!

[indy4 155]

Well said. I'd like to add an example of War Horse's unpredictability--the rendition of the Bonding Theme heard during "The Homecoming" at 5:50. Those chords completely surprised me when I first heard them.

[MSM 126]

I think KothCS, War Horse and Tin Tin all three are great scores.

[King Mark 3,631]

Well said. I'd like to add an example of War Horse's unpredictability--the rendition of the Bonding Theme heard during "The Homecoming" at 5:50. Those chords completely surprised me when I first heard them.

The same can be said for sections on ANY JW scores. That's why he's better than other film composers. Because he comes up with chords and harmonies nobody else can

And I like KotCS better than Tintin and War Horse

[Wojo 2,453]

he comes up with chords and harmonies nobody else can

So he's a physicist, who creates new sounds never before heard by the human ear?

THAT'S AWESOME!!!!

[SF1_freeze 131]

Exactly what would it take for you to appreciate a score like War Horse from a innovative perspective? When Williams had scored if for 17 drumkits? When Williams had used Joe Satriani to play the electric guitar solos? When he had asked Lady Gaga to sing the theme song? War Horse was Williams reinventing himself quite a bit. Not in Earth shattering ways, but Williams returned to a more simple, pure melodic approach with non-complex, basic chords and harmonies. This is vastly different from, let's say, Angela's Ashes or Schindler's List. The 'Remembering Emilie' theme alone is written in an idiom seldomly chosen by Williams. It's the simple and direct melodic structure that gives War Horse a sense of fresh air and sets it apart from many other of Williams' dramatic scores.

But I guess it could only find your approval if Williams had done something radical like adding hip-hop beats. Only then would someone like you call it 'unexpected'.

The same goes for Tintin. It is fresh and the first time I heard it I thought to myself: "This is Williams doing something I've never heard before". The unpredictable nature rests more in the nuance of the action material and the slight stylistic changes from his previous scores.

I feel Williams' music is always changing. Not revolutionary, but evolutionary. That's why Williams probably couldn't write Star Wars today and he couldn't write Memoirs Of A Geisha back in 1977.

He's truly a remarkable composer who doesn't deserve this 'Williams is too predictable'-crap. The man is as diverse a composer as they come.

I completely agree. JW has done almost all genres in spectacular quality and diversity. It's truly astonishing.

Concerning War Horse:

There are 3 JW scores since Jurassic Park that are as good as his best work before while still offering enough new and creative material to not be a rehash:

The Phantom Menace, Prisoner of Azkaban and War Horse

Then come several very good scores that are just a nitch below like AotC, RotS, AI, TLW, Tintin, Harry Potter 1 and 2

I remember many posters on this board saying that JW wasn't as good after 1993 as he was before. That may be true for the overal body of his work but the highlights are still as high as almost anything he ever did. TPM, PoA and War Horse still remain uncontested in my Top 10 best JW scores list!

1) TESB

2) Temple of Doom

3) Jurassic Park

4) Star Wars

5) ET

6) Prisoner of Azkaban

7) Raiders

8) The Phantom Menace

9) Home Alone

10) War Horse

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

But I guess it could only find your approval if Williams had done something radical like adding hip-hop beats. Only then would someone like you call it 'unexpected'

It's great that you enjoy them so much.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Well said. I'd like to add an example of War Horse's unpredictability--the rendition of the Bonding Theme heard during "The Homecoming" at 5:50. Those chords completely surprised me when I first heard them.

The same can be said for sections on ANY JW scores. That's why he's better than other film composers. Because he comes up with chords and harmonies nobody else can

Oh Jesus.

The same goes for Tintin. It is fresh and the first time I heard it I thought to myself: "This is Williams doing something I've never heard before". The unpredictable nature rests more in the nuance of the action material and the slight stylistic changes from his previous scores.

Really?

No, I mean, really? Tintin is something Williams has never done before? Surely you must be joking!

When you say the unpredictable nature lies in nuances of action material and slight changes from his previous scores, that is just a fancy way of saying that in the larger picture, Tintin isn't original at all.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

I miss the anticipation I had for War Horse last year. For Lincoln, the film and the score just don't carry the same excitement for me.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

That's because Tintin And War Horse were the first Williams scores in 3 years, and the first in 6 years for those excluding Kingdom Of The Crystal Skull.

JWFans' fanboyism thrives during a drought.

[KK 3,307]

Lincoln is also a much more straightforward assignment than those two. Whereas Tintin and War Horse presents a variety of ways Williams could approach the films, you pretty much know for sure what you're getting with Lincoln.

[Sandor 797]

Really?

No, I mean, really? Tintin is something Williams has never done before? Surely you must be joking!

When you say the unpredictable nature lies in nuances of action material and slight changes from his previous scores, that is just a fancy way of saying that in the larger picture, Tintin isn't original at all.

No, I'm saying that stuff like Snowy's Theme, Sir Francis And The Unicorn or The Adventure Continues sound fresh and there is hardly anything in Williams' catalogue that sounds similar. People easily accuse Williams of rehashing his trademark sound for Tintin, but I find the score has quite a strong and unique identity of its own. Within realistic boundaries of course. Again; who would have really expected Williams to score the action sequences of Tintin for electronic drums and synths? Who would want Williams to get so unexpected anyway? If he had done so however, people like you would probably complain about Williams not sticking to his familiair sound. There really is no pleasing certain fans.

[Datameister 2,042]

I find that Tintin often manages to sound fairly "been there, done that." Williams' best music manages to captivate me as it alternates between satisfying my subconscious musical expectations and defying them. Tintin does a lot of the former and not enough of the latter, instrumentation choices aside. It makes for a fun and technically accomplished score, but not one that sounds particularly "fresh" to my ear. War Horse, on the other hand, still strikes me as a delightfully consonant contrast to most of Williams' work in the 2000s. It's clearly a Williams score, sure, but there are more parts where he defies those expectations I mentioned, where he comes up with things that just sound...well, fresh, even though they're obviously built on the same tonalities and whatnot that we've been hearing for ages, and even though Tintin is technically a lot more complex. The action music really shines, too - it's emotionally focused and vivid in a way that Tintin's frantic action music rarely is.

As for Lincoln, I'll start developing an opinion when I see the film, just like I did with these scores last year. I'm not expecting it to be my new favorite score of all time or anything, but I'm hoping it will at least approach War Horse levels of enjoyment.

[publicist 4,643]

Again; who would have really expected Williams to score the action sequences of Tintin for electronic drums and synths? Who would want Williams to get so unexpected anyway? If he had done so however, people like you would probably complain about Williams not sticking to his familiair sound. There really is no pleasing certain fans.

Again; who would have really expected Horner to score the action sequences of XXX for electronic drums and synths? Who would want Horner to get so unexpected anyway? If he had done so however, people like you would probably complain about Horner not sticking to his familiar sound. There really is no pleasing certain fans.

[Sandor 797]

Again; who would have really expected Williams to score the action sequences of Tintin for electronic drums and synths? Who would want Williams to get so unexpected anyway? If he had done so however, people like you would probably complain about Williams not sticking to his familiair sound. There really is no pleasing certain fans.

Again; who would have really expected Horner to score the action sequences of XXX for electronic drums and synths? Who would want Horner to get so unexpected anyway? If he had done so however, people like you would probably complain about Horner not sticking to his familiar sound. There really is no pleasing certain fans.

My point is that music like Snowy's Theme or the pirate sequence music sounds pretty distinguishable to me. I couldn't mistaken it for any other score.

[King Mark 3,631]

No, I'm saying that stuff like Snowy's Theme, Sir Francis And The Unicorn or The Adventure Continues sound fresh and there is hardly anything in Williams' catalogue that sounds similar. People

That's true ,but not for the better. The pirate music sounds like the movie was tempted with RCP music and Williams tried to do adapt that in his own orchestral style.

I have yet to really get into that score unlike every other Williams adventure score. There's something about it that doesn't compel me that much . I loveTintin's Heroic theme but I feel it's the only "real" Williams theme in there

[Datameister 2,042]

That's interesting - that's the theme that disappointed me the most. There are a few statements I enjoy, but it could have been so much more. I prefer Haddock's theme and several of the minor motifs that get woven throughout the score. The Unicorn theme is good as well, though it's quite similar to several other themes from several other scores.

[publicist 4,643]

My point is that music like Snowy's Theme or the pirate sequence music sounds pretty distinguishable to me. I couldn't mistaken it for any other score.

The only halfway distinguishable music is the piano concerto in SNOWY'S THEME. The rest is completely entertaining stuff, but for all its energy, shopworn Williams at best (even the jazz parts). It's no big deal nowadays with Steve Jablonsky cornering the market, but it really takes a Williams FAN to defend TINTIN on the grounds of originality.

[Sandor 797]

It's no big deal nowadays with Steve Jablonsky cornering the market, but it really takes a Williams FAN to defend TINTIN on the grounds of originality.

I guess it really depends on how much value one puts on 'originality' when it comes to a score like Tintin. Tintin was praised a lot within the soundtrack community, also by typical non-Williams fans. I guess it really takes a Williams FAN to bash TINTIN on the grounds of originality since many non-Williams fans were thrilled to hear 'the Williams' sound' again.

[publicist 4,643]

I guess it really depends on how much value one puts on 'originality' when it comes to a score like Tintin. Tintin was praised a lot within the soundtrack community, also by typical non-Williams fans.

Translation: when stuck, refer to unverifiable 'empirical' evidence. So Roald now has established that it's uncool to discuss a score he likes in any way, shape or form that isn't unanonymous praise. Welcome to JWfan.net!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Sandor 797]

I guess it really depends on how much value one puts on 'originality' when it comes to a score like Tintin. Tintin was praised a lot within the soundtrack community, also by typical non-Williams fans.

Translation: when stuck, refer to unverifiable 'empirical' evidence. So Roald now has established that it's uncool to discuss a score he likes in any way, shape or form that isn't unanonymous praise. Welcome to JWfan.net!

No score enjoys 'unanoymous praise', but you simply said:

It's no big deal nowadays with Steve Jablonsky cornering the market, but it really takes a Williams FAN to defend TINTIN on the grounds of originality.

This simply is not true as I have read general soundtrack fans (not Williams-fans perse) praise Tintin for its fresh sound, even more than Williams devotees.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Really?

No, I mean, really? Tintin is something Williams has never done before? Surely you must be joking!

When you say the unpredictable nature lies in nuances of action material and slight changes from his previous scores, that is just a fancy way of saying that in the larger picture, Tintin isn't original at all.

No, I'm saying that stuff like Snowy's Theme, Sir Francis And The Unicorn or The Adventure Continues sound fresh and there is hardly anything in Williams' catalogue that sounds similar. People easily accuse Williams of rehashing his trademark sound for Tintin, but I find the score has quite a strong and unique identity of its own. Within realistic boundaries of course. Again; who would have really expected Williams to score the action sequences of Tintin for electronic drums and synths? Who would want Williams to get so unexpected anyway? If he had done so however, people like you would probably complain about Williams not sticking to his familiair sound. There really is no pleasing certain fans.

Why do you keep retorting to electronics and pop melodies? Why is that the only thing Williams can do to be unexpected? If you haven't noticed, there are tons of other composers that keep composing unexpected music within their stylistic tendencies.

I find that Tintin often manages to sound fairly "been there, done that." Williams' best music manages to captivate me as it alternates between satisfying my subconscious musical expectations and defying them. Tintin does a lot of the former and not enough of the latter, instrumentation choices aside. It makes for a fun and technically accomplished score, but not one that sounds particularly "fresh" to my ear. War Horse, on the other hand, still strikes me as a delightfully consonant contrast to most of Williams' work in the 2000s. It's clearly a Williams score, sure, but there are more parts where he defies those expectations I mentioned, where he comes up with things that just sound...well, fresh, even though they're obviously built on the same tonalities and whatnot that we've been hearing for ages, and even though Tintin is technically a lot more complex. The action music really shines, too - it's emotionally focused and vivid in a way that Tintin's frantic action music rarely is.

As for Lincoln, I'll start developing an opinion when I see the film, just like I did with these scores last year. I'm not expecting it to be my new favorite score of all time or anything, but I'm hoping it will at least approach War Horse levels of enjoyment.

Agreed on everything.