#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 She is personally offended by it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Won't be long before she sues Shore! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ren 75 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 You find that rhythm annoying?no, quite the contrary - in the viewing of the whole - it's perfect. When you scrutinize the minutia yes - it's over done and effing grating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 7,999 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Yeah, it is a bit upsetting.Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 no, quite the contrary - in the viewing of the whole - it's perfect. When you scrutinize the minutia yes - it's over done and effing gratingHow about the Uruk Hai theme from Fewllowship and TTT?Shore uses it a lot in both and i think if he had continued it in ROTK it would have gotten old. (he cameo's it in ROTK, but only briefly)Also great full that he did not use his Ringwraith Theme in ROTK. It was already a bit overused in FOTR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I loooove these scores! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I don't know what or who to believe anymore...hornist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Are you even Dutch?I'm very very Dutch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I find Hornist' taste rather limited. And I say that as someone who really only liked film music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I created some great debate here about action music.My taste is not limited. It's selective.I like Shore's Lotr scores with the film, not alone.Hence, he had very difficult challenge to score all those endless battles...kind of well done Howard.. Ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ren 75 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I'm Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 No I'm sorry. It's really not. You seem to dismiss everything that doesn't belong to a very specific type of music. That is not being selective.I'm JoeYou look great for a middle aged bear, Joey! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Damn, there has been so much bashing of LOTR scores recently, and by people who used to praise them so much...What's next? KM praising those scores?I don't know what or who to believe anymore...I know, it's tragic. Not long before Incanus comes in here and tells us how much he hates Gandalf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilal 569 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Having thought about it, i have to admit LotR is better than Williams's recent scores... It's terribly hard decision to make. Williams excells at his writing and so does Shore. But Shore wins because of his craftmanship and originality. He has written timeless music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I think if you compare the whole ouvre of Shore against the whole ouvre of JW. JW wins hands down, leaving Shore crying like a little bitch.But LOTR is incredible and it holds up to even Williams' bext. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Hmm, do you have an example of Williams in annoying action mode? I'm interested in this.Oh wow.Where to start ... Take for example Bounty Hunter's Pursuit. Or the fight between Obi-Wan and Django Fett. Or the Flying Keys in Potter 1. Or battle music from Episode I. Those are all totally overcooked, directionless heaps of orchestra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 It's kind of obvious that William's oeuvre beats the pulp out of Shore's own, but LotR in itself is a step above everything else for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Yes. Escape From Naboo is brilliant though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Williams hasn't written anything like Lord of the Rings in terms of density, complexity and subtlety.Not even for Episodes I-III, when he clearly had the chance to.I guess he couldn't be bothered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 No I'm sorry. It's really not. You seem to dismiss everything that doesn't belong to a very specific type of music. That is not being selective.Yes, I have very strong opinions and selective taste. I have apologized before being an asshole. But I hate the phrase " I'm omnivorous what comes to music." No filter, Yuck! (this has nothing to do with Shore)And when my favorite is being attacked I'll fight back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 It's kind of obvious that William's oeuvre beats the pulp out of Shore's own.Wait until Shore scores Bilbo's Ashes, Gandalf's List, or Saving Private Kili. Then you'll revise your judgment!Gandalf's List sounds like a real top tenner. I wonder if Mr. Perlman might be up for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I've never apologized for being an asshole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 It's kind of obvious that William's oeuvre beats the pulp out of Shore's own.Wait until Shore scores Bilbo's Ashes, Gandalf's List, or Saving Private Kili. Then you'll revise your judgment!Gandalf's List sounds like a real top tenner. I wonder if Mr. Perlman might be up for it.He could perform the concert arrangement for the History Of The List theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted August 31, 2012 Author Share Posted August 31, 2012 looking for the cue, it's the dotted quarter eighth pattern that is underscoring the ents and the flood I believeend of Isengard UnleashedAh, yes. And You can also hear the same sort of thing during Flight to the Ford and The Bridge of Kazad-dum. Oh and Parth Galen.Hmm, do you have an example of Williams in annoying action mode? I'm interested in this.Oh wow.Where to start ... Take for example Bounty Hunter's Pursuit. Or the fight between Obi-Wan and Django Fett. Or the Flying Keys in Potter 1. Or battle music from Episode I. Those are all totally overcooked, directionless heaps of orchestra.Hmm, I see what you're saying, but I'm personally never "annoyed" by JW on autopilot, just indifferent. Or disappointed, in the case of Indy 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ren 75 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Yes. That's what I'm talking about lolLolThe rhythm is grating to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted August 31, 2012 Author Share Posted August 31, 2012 It's fucking boring is what it is. Thankfully the glorious LPO enlivens it incredibly effectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ren 75 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Yes, atmosphere and recording abound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Still not sure what the hell you are talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Still not sure what the hell you are talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I guess they've heard the rhythm one too many times. It's actually a common one in Shore's oeuvre. I'm actually perfectly fine and at times fond of its appearances. That and the rising chord progressions are all trademark characteristics of Shore's compositional style. I have no problem with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ren 75 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 AHHHHLike I've said it's fine but when you listen too carefully it becomes monotonous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Example? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I find Howard Shore's action music in LotR a lot better paced and placed than Williams late action music. I just find that Shore is perfect in placing the right notes at the right time, so consequently I find his music more thoroughly composed; if not in numbers, then certainly emotionally and in terms of how a musical arc is established.A piece like The Siege Of Gondor, particulary the beginning (Ash And Smoke on the OST), may, purely compositionally, not be on par with Williams' complexity, and yet, how it builds, how it is conceived as a piece of dramatic music and how it is placed in the film, it is vastly superior to the last ten years of John Williams action music. KK 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted August 31, 2012 Author Share Posted August 31, 2012 I guess they've heard the rhythm one too many times. It's actually a common one in Shore's oeuvre. I'm actually perfectly fine and at times fond of its appearances. That and the rising chord progressions are all trademark characteristics of Shore's compositional style. I have no problem with it.It's one of those "melodies" which a toddler conjurers up when singing to themselves in bed. Dress it up with the LPO and The London Motherfucking Voices and you suddenly have film score badassery of Oscar winning proportions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ren 75 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I find Howard Shore's action music in LotR a lot better paced and placed than Williams late action music. I just find that Shore is perfect in placing the right notes at the right time, so consequently I find his music more thoroughly composed; if not in numbers, then certainly emotionally and in terms of how a musical arc is established.A piece like The Siege Of Gondor, particulary the beginning (Ash And Smoke on the OST), may, purely compositionally, not be on par with Williams' complexity, and yet, how it builds, how it is conceived as a piece of dramatic music and how it is placed in the film, it is vastly superior to the last ten years of John Williams action music.I agree. I feel Shore is able to convey emotion even through action music which sometimes lacks in other composers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I find Howard Shore's action music in LotR a lot better paced and placed than Williams late action music. I just find that Shore is perfect in placing the right notes at the right time, so consequently I find his music more thoroughly composed; if not in numbers, then certainly emotionally and in terms of how a musical arc is established.A piece like The Siege Of Gondor, particulary the beginning (Ash And Smoke on the OST), may, purely compositionally, not be on par with Williams' complexity, and yet, how it builds, how it is conceived as a piece of dramatic music and how it is placed in the film, it is vastly superior to the last ten years of John Williams action music.Aye. The Siege of Gondor is a brilliant action piece in my opinion. Effectively building the tension on screen while intelligently playing with thematic characters on play. And in its sheer ferocity, the music manages to impress in spirit. Something that lot of recent action material lacks in today's industry.Having said that, contrary to some people's belief, Williams still continues to write fantastic action pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ren 75 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I guess they've heard the rhythm one too many times. It's actually a common one in Shore's oeuvre. I'm actually perfectly fine and at times fond of its appearances. That and the rising chord progressions are all trademark characteristics of Shore's compositional style. I have no problem with it.It's one of those "melodies" which a toddler conjurers up when singing to themselves in bed. Dress it up with the LPO and The London Motherfucking Voices and you suddenly have film score badassery of Oscar winning proportions.PLUS ONE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I don't find Williams action music emotionally engaging. Never really did, actually. It gives me a great adrenaline rush, but nothing beyond.Shore is different, he can give me both, adrenaline and raw emotion at the same time. Isengard Unleashed, for instance. I find the primeval drum rhythm for the Ents heart-racing.I want to see the toddler who writes Isengard Unleashed, that is completely nonsense. It's not the melody, it's the chords.Why don't you write something of Oscar-winning proportions then if a toddler can do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted August 31, 2012 Author Share Posted August 31, 2012 I don't find Williams action music emotionally engaging. Never really did, actually. It gives me a great adrenaline rush, but nothing beyond.This is where I completely, utterly disagree.John Williams' action music goes hand in hand with his most famous main themes as far as I'm concerned, and if it weren't for the likes of Sea Attack Number One and Escape, Chase, Goodbye I don't think I'd be posting here today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I'm with Quint on this one. I find it hard to believe that one can't emotionally connect with his action music. The way he lets his themes soar in those great set pieces just makes your heart race. Williams is the master of action material. To call his work emotionally detached is ridiculous in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I wouldn't exactly call Escape, Chase, Goodbye action music.There is no question that there are enormously emotional spots in his action music. It's just that it is usually surrounded by other stuff that diminishes its impact for me. A perfect blend of both is Close Encounters (still the best Williams score to date in my book). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ren 75 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I thought we were talking about jws work in the past decade..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted August 31, 2012 Author Share Posted August 31, 2012 I wouldn't exactly call Escape, Chase, Goodbye action music.The first half is nothing but. Of the finest prime fillet variety.Or perhaps Williams had weaved his subconscious conditioning spell over your emotional arse at that point I thought we were talking about jws work in the past decade.....It's veered off a bit, as is the custom... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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