Howard Shore's An Unexpected Journey (Hobbit Part 1)

[Barnald 365]

Yes, one of the pieces I want is the film version of Finn's song with that lovely rendition of the Misty Mountains theme preceding it.

[Jay 37,322]

Luckily you can rip those completely clean from the dvd or Blu Ray

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

When most were sighing at how cliché and cheesy the Azog/Thorin showdown and plot was, I was drawn into it. I thought it would be another emotional ending just like with Borormir in FOTR, I genuinely didn't know if he would survive.

My problem is that I didn't care how the duel would end. I was actually disappointed when Azog's mace didn't cleave Thorin's head off. Boromir despite being tempted by the ring, is a likeable, fallible and interesting character, and likewise Sean Bean is a compelling actor, and can convey more than one emotion. On the hand, Thorin/Armitage is solemn, one note, wooden, and a dullard. Almost no redeeming qualities at all.

[Incanus 5,713]

When most were sighing at how cliché and cheesy the Azog/Thorin showdown and plot was, I was drawn into it. I thought it would be another emotional ending just like with Borormir in FOTR, I genuinely didn't know if he would survive.

My problem is that I didn't care how the duel would end. I was actually disappointed when Azog's mace didn't cleave Thorin's head off. Boromir despite being tempted by the ring, is a likeable, fallible and interesting character, and likewise Sean Bean is a compelling actor, and can convey more than one emotion. On the hand, Thorin/Armitage is solemn, one note, wooden, and a dullard. Almost no redeeming qualities at all.

Yes as much as I like the stoic sterness of Thorin's demeanor it is way too overplayed by the film makers. He becomes irritating even before they company arrives to Rivendell. I know they are honing in on the madness that supposedly runs in Thorin's family and that is why he is so obsessed and bears grudges and is burdened by his duty but honestly he is so stubborn and grim it is like he is playing a martyr 24/7 and goes out of his way to make the journey of the company more difficult.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Armitage is a great actor.

Great?!!! Come on. Good maybe, but great?

Either way, it's not only the writing. He's being badly directed by Jackson.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

I'm going to watch the extended edition tonight with some folks. Based on Jason's synopsis I expect it to feel slightly more full of "meh" humor, but with a notably larger amount of heart. I'm most looking forward to the stuff with Bilbo in Rivendell. I feel like that will really resonate.

[Faleel 5,341]

Yes as much as I like the stoic sterness of Thorin's demeanor it is way too overplayed by the film makers.

Hey, his heart is hot within him, that really makes someone deadly serious.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Yes as much as I like the stoic sterness of Thorin's demeanor it is way too overplayed by the film makers.

Hey, his heart is hot within him, that really makes someone deadly serious.

And tediously boring.

[gkgyver 1,645]

The way Thorin turns around to the camera after the Ancient Enemy scenes so sloooowly is quite cheesy. I guess this is what you folks mean with "overdone".

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

That and every time he speaks.

[Faleel 5,341]

Yes as much as I like the stoic sterness of Thorin's demeanor it is way too overplayed by the film makers.

Hey, his heart is hot within him, that really makes someone deadly serious.

And tediously boring.

That is Tolkein's problem not mine!

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

That guy couldn't write! Plus he stole all his ideas from JK Rowling!

[Incanus 5,713]

Yes as much as I like the stoic sterness of Thorin's demeanor it is way too overplayed by the film makers.

Hey, his heart is hot within him, that really makes someone deadly serious.

And tediously boring.

That is Tolkein's problem not mine!

I think PJ and the writers cranked the angst factor up to 100% when they adapted him from Tolkien's work to the films. He is just too much a stubborn martyr for his own (and other people's) good. I like Armitage's performance but it does become little one note after a while. Thorin in the novel was rarely as irritating (especially in the opening half of the book) as the film counterpart. Especially when everything he has to do seems to be a huge problem to him, most of all if someone else tells him to do it. So he is a mix of a tragic hero, petulant child and a stubborn martyr.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Faleel 5,341]

I think PJ and the writers cranked the angst factor up to 100% when they adapted him from Tolkien's work to the films. He is just too much a stubborn martyr for his own (and other people's) good. I like Armitage's performance but it does become little one note after a while. Thorin in the novel was rarely as irritating (especially in the opening half of the book) as the film counterpart. Especially when everything he has to do seems to be a huge problem to him, most of all if someone else tells him to do it. So he is a mix of a tragic hero, petulant child and a stubborn martyr.

I think PJ took the Thorin we see in The Quest of Erebor and cranked it up a huge margin

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[gkgyver 1,645]

What people refer to as "Thorin's pride" are not the arpeggiated celli figures, but rather the french horn/celli line above them when the dwarves flee Erebor, or when the dwarves search the troll-hoard. 6:51 in "My Dear Frodo" for example.

I'm thinking not really about Bilbo's role as a burglar when I hear those arpeggio figures at the end of My Dear Frodo, but rather Thorin's quest. To me it's a mixture of a theme for Thorin's pride on top, and for Thorin's quest underneath. Which is of course also connected to Bilbo.

I think it makes perfect sense to play a motif for Thorin's quest when Gandalf etches the marking on Bilbo's door.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[gkgyver 1,645]

So what are the arpeggiatted cello figure that sound like the burglar motif? I had no idea the bit you time stamped was a theme.

Can you give timestamps to make sure we are talking about the same things?

For me, Thorin's pride theme is in "My Dear Frodo" from 6:51-7:10, or in "A Troll-Hoard" from 0:58-1:10.

In connection to this is a little figure I think is connected to Thorin's quest or the dwarves' quest in general, heard for example at 0:45--0:57 in "A Troll-Hoard" or at 7:22-7:47 in "My Dear Frodo", followed by Thorin's pride again from 7:48 to the end.

I don't think it's a Bilbo motif at all.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[gkgyver 1,645]

The only difference to the motif at 7:22 in My Dear Frodo is that the motif at the end of Old Friends outlines Weakness and Redemption twice (B minor chord with a flattened sixth), while the My Dear Frodo motif simply outlines straight minor chords.

I get the feeling though we read too much into this little moment.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Jay 37,322]

I was surprised to see neither theme mentioned in Doug's liner notes, or the theme list thread on TOR.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[gkgyver 1,645]

Ah so they're both based on weakness and redemption somewhat?

Not really. Weakness and Redemption is defined by the arpeggiated figure that outlines a minor chord with a flattened 6th added (in Old Friends B - D - F# - G - F# - D). Just the Old Friends moment has that. The version in My Dear Frodo just outlines regular minor chords (for example D - F -A - D - A - F). It's not the same.

I'm just saying that with all the shifting around of cues in AUJ, I wouldn't read much into it until official word is out. Meaning: the horse to the rescue!

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Not really. Weakness and Redemption is defined by the arpeggiated figure that outlines a minor chord with a flattened 6th added (in Old Friends B - D - F# - G - F# - D).

That's really a GM7 in first inversion.

[gkgyver 1,645]

So ...? It still sounds the same.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

But a less clunky description.

[Incanus 5,713]

Yes I am, Thorins pride is at the end of My Dear Frodo. Burglar motif is in Old Friends when Bilbo is hiding from Gandalf if I remember correctly. Maybe there's some clever thematic reason why they sound so similar.

Thorin's Pride is a very clear theme but the Burglar motif (if there actually is one) is a more nebulous thing. I think it sounds more like a variation on Weakness and Redemption (well so does Thorin's Pride) connected with the precarious situations Bilbo is forced into both at his home and on the journey. In the Shire the music seems more playful (Old Friends, especially Unexpected Party, where it receives extended performances).

[Faleel 5,341]

Just some observations:

Gandalf's theme (the first part) is: A-C-B A-D

The bit in Warg-scouts that I thought was Gandalfs theme is: A C B D

the melody at 1:01 in the film version of Radagast the Brown is D C-B C (not sure about this last note)

so, the first two are almost exactly the same, but with 1 note difference (though they are probably not the same theme)

All three use the same notes, but in a different order (the last three notes of #3 is a reversed version of the first three notes of #1 and #2)

[gkgyver 1,645]

Where exactly do you hear a definite new theme for Radagast in the film?

[Faleel 5,341]

To be fair, Its probably not a Radagast theme at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qMAsht3GUk

1:01 (and wow, it's not at all what I wrote above, oops!).

The real new Radagast theme would most likely really be at 4:34 to 4:47, I personally, have not figured out the notes for that one yet.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Faleel 5,341]

Well BB, you pointed out the first occurrence, so that ought to count for something

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Faleel 5,341]

Yeah, my mind corrupted the notes when I played them on the piano, the bit at 1:01 track above is similar, but my mind heard it differently.

Hope that makes sense...

The notes should be (I think) D C-B C (not sure about this last note)

I have not totally figured the notes yet, but at the point I am at right now, there could be some similarities to the Witch King theme from ROTK in the theme BB pointed out, the first few notes are definitely A, C and B (order not yet determined).

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Faleel 5,341]

Yeah, like I said, those notes are wrong.

and its most likely not a theme.

[Faleel 5,341]

Ladies and gentlemen there is unreleased music in the AUJ EE Menus (and videos of course)

[gkgyver 1,645]

Very nice! Which cues?

As always when a Middle-Earth movie is about to hit the cinemas, I just hope the movie will produce images to heighten the enjoyment of the score.

[Faleel 5,341]

My Dear Frodo film version (Oboe and right to when it seques to the map scene).

Radagast the Brown film version Part 1 (with a clean ending!) was in the Greenwood Appendix.

Sadly, the chapter menus are unscored.

Valley of imladris is disc 2 menu music!

Disc 3 has the rest of My Dear Frodo (microedits restored!)

[Jay 37,322]

Awesome!

[Faleel 5,341]

The Appendices credits music is Guitars (perhaps demos?)

Also, the revised Arkenstone reveal has not revealed itself yet. (neither is the revised/less instruments music for Smaug's Attack)

[Jay 37,322]

Ooooh baby!

[Bilbo 3,709]

Valley of imladris is disc 2 menu music!

Yipee

[Faleel 5,341]

Its mixed with The White Council, so we are robbed of the full thing

Found a bit of "Home"

Part of Take Up Arms (I think, the bit before Gandalf's theme anyway)

Some wierd bit of music, sounds like it could have been the end of the Company theme in Brass Buttons, or footsteps of doom from the nazgul theme..

Brass buttons without choir?

Captured.

Goblin kings song.

A Bit of unreleased from A Thunder Battle?

Clean ending of Up Into The Trees.

Nazgul choir Dwarf Choir extended?

Clara Sanabras a good omen.

Clean ending for OST version of A Good Omen.