Howard Shore's An Unexpected Journey (Hobbit Part 1)

[KK 3,307]

To be honest, I can't hear the similarity too well, so I'm going to opt for whatever resemblance they have to be a coincidence.

Shore does however use the Moria textures he explored in FotR to great effect here. Just listen to "An Ancient Enemy" and you can hear all the familiar low-range chord progressions.

The rising motif you mentioned GK is what I believe must be a theme for Thorin's honour/legacy.

And I was also reminded of the Fate of the Ring theme in the opening in "Moon Runes". It could either be Shore doing some cool foreshadowing, or a pure coincidence. I love how he plays with the Misty Mountains theme in short fragments though.

[gkgyver 1,645]

The second half of The Edge Of The Wild sounds very Mirkwood-y. Or at least I can imagine it for Mirkwood. Is that droning sound a string technique or is that actual synth? It depicts the claustrophobic atmosphere of Mirkwood greatly.

[KK 3,307]

Did you get your CDs already GK? I didn't get mine, so I had to youtube the track. I don't think those are synths, I think the sound quality just changed significantly, because all the instruments sound off. can anyone with their Deluxe Edition confirm this?

And while the music certainly sounds very much like Mirkwood (especially with those string figures), there seems to be a lot more at play. I was very intrigued at 2:23 to hear The Witch-King motif from RotK (which in itself is a twisted hybrid of the Threat of Mordor). Could that be Shore hinting at the Witch-King? Or could it be him addressing Sauron again?

[Incanus 5,713]

Another interesting catch! It does indeed sound like the Orcs of Mordor/Witch King motif. The name of the track refers to the Map fo the Wilderland in the Hobbit so the music could be from a scene prior to the Dwarven company arriving to Rivendell as the edge of the Wild is marked just west of Rivendell on the map. Again pure speculation on my part as Shore might have used such name freely.

[gkgyver 1,645]

The precious arrived ....!

The packaging could really be better. Feels somewhat fragile.

[Incanus 5,713]

Now can you provide a bit more extensive description of the liner notes for those unfortunates who still do not have the preciousss.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Well, it is a thick booklet with white on black tests. There are plenty of photos from the sessions, and a pretty extensive guide through the storytelling of the music. The themes and thematic nods are described, but without time stamps, and no sheet music excerpts. The themes are referred to with their pitches, for example " .... but remaining stubbornly affixed to its root (A-C; A-D; A-E)."

There are song texts for "Blunt The Knives", "Misty Mountains", and "The Song Of The Lonely Mountain". Full lyrics for the choir within the score aren't there, but excerpts are mentioned in Doug's text.

[Incanus 5,713]

So it is a bit like a light version of the Annotated Score then.

[gkgyver 1,645]

It's the standard booklet size, with around 30 pages.

[Richard Penna 3,664]

The precious arrived ....!

The packaging could really be better. Feels somewhat fragile.

Mine arrived today too - these discs are in danger of serious scratches.

I'd much rather have a jewel case than this.

---

On the music side, I've listened to the whole thing (remember I avoided 90% of it until today), and to be honest, it's not clicking yet. Definitely some highlights, but there's a huge amount of meandering and 'stop-start' material that tries to mix emotions too much. RotK had a bit of this, but not nearly as much.

First impressions are nowhere near as memorable as Fellowship was - a little disappointing actually.

In fact the most memorable moment in the entire score for me - Roast Mutton - isn't on here! (the regular edition is an alternate for those who don't know).

[gkgyver 1,645]

Well, it is a bit smaller in scale than Fellowship.

[Richard Penna 3,664]

I mean it in the sense that Fellowship was our introduction to Shore's music, and for me it made an instant, memorable impression.

[Brónach 1,301]

Because it is memorable.

An Unexpected Journey isn't, or at least it isn't nowhere as much. At least, the OST standard version, which I'm comparing to the complete deal of FOTR. The FOTR score has a strong drive forward, while AUJ meanders, with its style not that fresh anymore, with themes we heard more than a decade ago. It isn't neither as terrifying or as beautiful as FOTR. On the adventure side, it has some quite brutal cues that pick again Shore's "primitive" stylings, but it sounds more static and not as hummable as the more adventurous music of FOTR. The Dwarven theme is nice but it suddenly disappears. And then comes back in a song that has nothing to do with the rest of the score.

Bah, I'm repeating myself. I'll come back when I have something new to say.

[gkgyver 1,645]

It's always a little difficult to plan a masterpiece.

[Joe Brausam 214]

I think part of this has to do with the presentation. Someone mentioned before that we're basically getting all the filler and the highlights at once - rather than a strictly highlights presentation to start with. There is a lot more to take in right now.

I have both editions on order for delivery tomorrow, but I'm stopping by an independent record store tonight to see if they put it out early.

[gkgyver 1,645]

So you are saying the soundtrack is too long?

[Richard Penna 3,664]

RotK is too long, but we were able to get used to the idea that there was some filler amongst the really good stuff because we'd heard the condensed version first.

But Chaac has hit upon exactly the problem with this score (at least for now - I may come out of the cinema with a different view). And on top of that, there's no context for anything. I personally have no clue what a 'Defiler' is, and so really that cue doesn't really do anything for me, just to cite one example.

[p0llux 392]

http://insidemovies.ew.com/2012/12/05/the-hobbit-score-howard-shore/

[tannhauser 101]

I think context is important to this kind of score which is so deeply narrative in nature. It's a bit like listening to a Wagner opera for the first time without understanding German or having a libretto to follow the plot. It's great music and enjoyable on a certain level, but following the plot makes it a far more intense and thrilling experience. I saw all three LOTR films before hearing the scores of any of them (I came quite late to the party) and I'm going to watch the Hobbit before I hear any of the music (well, I've heard 'Old Friends' and 'The Adventure Begins' but that's mostly old material.

[gkgyver 1,645]

http://insidemovies....e-howard-shore/

Has already been posted.

[p0llux 392]

thought so

[gkgyver 1,645]

The liner notes mention that there is a motif for the Arkenstone. " ... Arkenstone, a luminous white gem matched to a glowing choral cluster and a stately string line in B minor."

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[gkgyver 1,645]

I thought in Axe Or Sword?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[KK 3,307]

The liner notes mention that there is a motif for the Arkenstone. " ... Arkenstone, a luminous white gem matched to a glowing choral cluster and a stately string line in B minor."

Is that what we heard 3:02 - 3:20 in the prologue? It shows up again before the inverted variation of Smaug's Theme later in "Axe and Sword".

[gkgyver 1,645]

Like I said, the liners don't mention track titles.

But it sounds likely. There only is one choral segment in Axe Or Sword.

[Joe Brausam 214]

Success at the independent record store! They didn't even have the regular edition, just the special edition. Nice!

[crocodile 7,973]

Received my copy today. And also a note that my LLL batch is waiting for me at the post office (it's the fastest delivery ever). And I'm off for a couple of days as well. Happy times!

Karol

[KK 3,307]

I won't get my copy till Thursday...

[Incanus 5,713]

I won't get my copy till Thursday...

Lucky you. I don't know when I am going to get my copy, period.

So much for ordering a month in advance.

[KK 3,307]

Because it is memorable.

An Unexpected Journey isn't, or at least it isn't nowhere as much. At least, the OST standard version, which I'm comparing to the complete deal of FOTR. The FOTR score has a strong drive forward, while AUJ meanders, with its style not that fresh anymore, with themes we heard more than a decade ago. It isn't neither as terrifying or as beautiful as FOTR. On the adventure side, it has some quite brutal cues that pick again Shore's "primitive" stylings, but it sounds more static and not as hummable as the more adventurous music of FOTR. The Dwarven theme is nice but it suddenly disappears. And then comes back in a song that has nothing to do with the rest of the score.

Bah, I'm repeating myself. I'll come back when I have something new to say.

Honestly, what you mention has to do entirely with the nature of the film. FotR introduces us to a variety of locations we're seeing for the first time, and so the score sounds so much more diverse. In this case, we're seeing familiar faces and places, considering Shore's letimotivic approach, what else could we expect aside from the return of old themes? And even then, he attempts to give them fresh permutations.

We also have the lighter tone of the film to take into consideration. FotR was all about these massive apocalyptic forces at hand, and Shore scored it accordingly with these colossal musical forces. It's very different with the Hobbit. It's more of a light-hearted rollicking adventure, and the score reflects that. He still employs both his old and new themes with great intelligence and I can appreciate that. You can also hear the far more jubliant tone in the music and orchestrations.The new themes are still lovely, like Bilbo's theme and the dwarven themes. But you don't have anything new like Lothlorien, the Ringwraiths, Sauron, etc. to give such themes to. And in my humble opinion, he's really upped his game in the action department.

Having said that, I don't think The Hobbit is as good as LotR, but I don't think its fair to expect it to be. It's still my favourite score of the year.

Also, when taking the recording sessions into account, I don't think we can accurately judge this score until we've heard it in context.

RotK is too long, but we were able to get used to the idea that there was some filler amongst the really good stuff because we'd heard the condensed version first.

Of all the scores RotK benefited from the Complete Recordings the most.

[crocodile 7,973]

BTW I flipped through the regular edition's booklet today and the notes seem to be simply an abridged version of what we get in the special edition (3 pages or so). The first three paragraphs are identical.

Ironically, I think the normal edition has better packaging (a jewel case).

Karol

[Richard Penna 3,664]

Because it is memorable.

An Unexpected Journey isn't, or at least it isn't nowhere as much. At least, the OST standard version, which I'm comparing to the complete deal of FOTR. The FOTR score has a strong drive forward, while AUJ meanders, with its style not that fresh anymore, with themes we heard more than a decade ago. It isn't neither as terrifying or as beautiful as FOTR. On the adventure side, it has some quite brutal cues that pick again Shore's "primitive" stylings, but it sounds more static and not as hummable as the more adventurous music of FOTR. The Dwarven theme is nice but it suddenly disappears. And then comes back in a song that has nothing to do with the rest of the score.

Bah, I'm repeating myself. I'll come back when I have something new to say.

Honestly, what you mention has to do entirely with the nature of the film. FotR introduces us to a variety of locations we're seeing for the first time, and so the score sounds so much more diverse. In this case, we're seeing familiar faces and places, considering Shore's letimotivic approach, what else could we expect aside from the return of old themes? And even then, he attempts to give them fresh permutations.

We also have the lighter tone of the film to take into consideration. FotR was all about these massive apocalyptic forces at hand, and Shore scored it accordingly with these colossal musical forces. It's very different with the Hobbit. It's more of a light-hearted rollicking adventure, and the score reflects that. He still employs both his old and new themes with great intelligence and I can appreciate that. You can also hear the far more jubliant tone in the music and orchestrations.The new themes are still lovely, like Bilbo's theme and the dwarven themes. But you don't have anything new like Lothlorien, the Ringwraiths, Sauron, etc. to give such themes to. And in my humble opinion, he's really upped his game in the action department.

Having said that, I don't think The Hobbit is as good as LotR, but I don't think its fair to expect it to be. It's still my favourite score of the year.

Also, when taking the recording sessions into account, I don't think we can accurately judge this score until we've heard it in context.

I'd disagree about the action - for me there's nothing that has the range of personalities of Khazad-dum, the Shelob sequences, or chaos of Helm's Deep. Each of those has a distinct style, and I don't get that from any of the action sequences in The Hobbit. It's Shore's screeching strings in overdrive.

I think a negative factor for me is that I don't like many of the new themes (essentially, anything that appears in 'My Dear Frodo'). It's like another composer has taken Shore's baton and been forced to come up with a new set of themes. Maybe it is just the different tone, and more narrative-heavy story.

Take 4:15-4:35 (and again later on) in track 1 for example. I don't know if that's a theme, but both the melody and the raw orchestration turn me off ( I'm no big fan of Shore's isolated high strings).

It's competent music, but outside of its intended context, it's falling far, far short of what Fellowship achieved.

My favourite score of the year is Brave by far.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Alan 689]

Mine arrived today. I love it. One of my highlights is actually one of the quieter moments. The opening minute or so of The White Council (Extended Version) is beautiful. I like the new thematic material and I'm certain that it'll be developed just as the themes in LOTR were.

We're a hard bunch to please, aren't we? If it had been released as one disc there would have been complaints that more music was missing. As it is there are complaints that we have too much. As for the complaints about there being a lack of memorable themes, it's like being in December 2001 again. I distinctly remember people online saying that Fellowship was lacking in it's themes.

This first Hobbit score is just the start. It's a smaller start than before but I can't wait to see how things develop. Probably my only complaint is the use of bagpipes in Erebor. They just seem too firmly connected to our world, if that makes any sense?

[Richard Penna 3,664]

I'm not complaining about a lack of themes. I'm just not finding any of them memorable. I think they're in the wrong key or something.

[Joe Brausam 214]

I find it interesting that in the promotional stickers on the releases the regular edition advertises itself as being the complete score to the film, but the the Special Edition makes no mention of being the complete score.

Can anyone list which tracks on the regular version are actual alternates VS. their counterparts on the SE?

[gkgyver 1,645]

I'm not complaining about a lack of themes. I'm just not finding any of them memorable. I think they're in the wrong key or something.

How can something be in the "wrong key"? Or when is something in the "right" key?

Can anyone list which tracks on the regular version are actual alternates VS. their counterparts on the SE?

Not many.

I think there are no true alternates except "Roast Mutton". The extended tracks are, well, extended, but not really alternates in the sense that the rest of the track (outside the aded music) would be different.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

So does the score live up to the hype? How good is it compared to the original 3 LOTR scores?

[Richard Penna 3,664]

How can something be in the "wrong key"? Or when is something in the "right" key?

I was told once that I preferred themes that are written in a certain key (very normal apparently). Therefore, if Shore has written his themes in a key that my mind doesn't like, then I'm not going to find the them emotional.

So does the score live up to the hype? How good is it compared to the original 3 LOTR scores?

That'll depend on who you ask.

I say no, others say yes.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Many trick themselves into thinking that they will have the same reaction as to Fellowship. Which can't be. The element of surprise is gone.

It's a precursor to Fellowship, and that's what it sounds like.

Bilbo's themes are as good as anything in LotR.

[KK 3,307]

Many trick themselves into thinking that they will have the same reaction as to Fellowship. Which can't be. The element of surprise is gone.

It's a precursor to Fellowship, and that's what it sounds like.

Bilbo's themes are as good as anything in LotR.

Indeed. People seem also to forget that this is just the beginning. Fellowship had the element of surprise (as you said) to really lift it off. As the the LotR trilogy played out, it just made you appreciate that debut all the more.

The same will be with the Hobbit. We haven't heard what Shore has in store for his thematic material, and when it all flounders, it will be magnificent.

As it is, it's still bloody darn fantastic. I love the use of textures and the enthusiastic tone. And Bilbo's Theme is wonderful stuff, not to mention the Erebor adventure themes and all that.

[gkgyver 1,645]

The Erebor statement starting "The Edge Of The Wild" conjures the same goosebumps as similarily noble statements of the Rohan or Gondor themes.

[KK 3,307]

I've frequently gone to youtube to look up "Erebor". That theme is just awesome! A shame the cue is so short.

[crocodile 7,973]

I'm really curious what these bonus tracks are exactly?

Karol

[Incanus 5,713]

I and several other curious people have asked this at Mr. Adams' blog but he told that he will reserve his comments after the film has come out (in US I guess).

[crocodile 7,973]

Oh good then.

Karol

[Nick1Ø66 4,687]

Has anyone taken a stab at a good chronological order for the special edition tracks? I know Doug Adams said they are arranged the way they are for "musical" reasons, but I'm curious if anyone has figured out where everything fits chronologically (if at all)?

Also, I'm hearing serious compression issues on this disc, particularly in the latter part of "My Dear Frodo"...anyone else?

[Incanus 5,713]

I might try to do a chronological run-down of the Special Edition when I get back from the showing of the film tonight.