Get your flames ready- TTT score hater here!

[Morlock 11]

As I said- I am one of those few people who hated, and by now loath TTT score.

BTW add a big IMO to everything mentioned in this thread

Some background- I loved the first, one of the most original soundtracks in years.

I got the score a few days after it came out (along with CMIYC), but I couldn't sit through it, so I waited for the movie (Not to mislead- I saw it a month ago, but only got to this now)

This was one of the most pathetic sequel scores I've ever heard. It doesn't expand on the original in any siginificant way, with only three new themes, one of which is good, one of which is ok, one of which is terrible.

Look at the grand tradition of sequel scoring- Star Trek, Back to the future, Jurrasic Park (2), Harry Potter, for the major ones but even ones like Young Guns 2, an idiotic movie with a great Silvestri score.

And for the best ones- Star Wars.

Now I'm not comparing the actual music, but more the structure.

TESB has three major new motifs, a magical one time theme ( Landau's palace) a large glossary of music to reffer to from the original and 3 amazing action scenes (score wise)- Astroid field, clash of the light sabers and the main one- Battle of Hoth, which are composed almost entirely of new material, unrelated to the themes. The new themes, especialy The Imperial March are far more prevailant than the preexisting ones.

TTT has three new themes, one over used, and two barely used. It adapted one of the original themes to a new form (rather succesfuly). It

has one HUGE battle scene, which has rather unremarkable music. The old themes are heard far more than the new ones. And finaly, to add insult to injury, you have a song which sounds like a REJECTED Bond song (and god knows Bond isn't too selective).

Again, IMO

I love Howard Shore. He is one of the most gifted composers around today, but there was so much potential in this score. It would be very good if it were by itself, without it's overbearing FoTR, but is a very uninventive, unoriginal and unlistenable follow up.

This year, his Panic room was better. And that's saying something.

[Melange 446]

Hi Morlock. Some people drool over the score and others dont like the score. But i cant see how someone can get so upset about a score as to "Loath" it. You either like it or you dont. I dont see how it can get as serious as "loathing" unless you are intentionally out to provoke flame wars in the first place by comparing them to hugely sucessfull sequel scores such as the trek movies and the star wars movies (all scored by different composers). I'm not a fan of the 2 scores myself and hence dont own them on CD. I just forget about them. I think you're beating yourself up over this Go back to wonderful ESB.

P.S : You forgot Indy :Temple of Doom (classic example of a superb sequel score)

[Morlock 11]

I dislike the music, but the fact that the music isn't good doesn't make me hate it - in this trilogy, for this movie, by this composer, I thought I had the right to excpect a great score- I got the opposite. That's why I used the word I did. Although I was a bit caugt up in it, so I'll take it down a notch or two.

[Melange 446]

Hehehe. No Problem.

[Marian Schedenig 8,192]

Interesting. I can understand that someone doesn't like Shore's style, and therefore both scores. But I'm surprised that you liked the first one and dislike the second one.

There's one point where I have to disagree at least. Yes, Williams did fantastic sequel scores. But the thing I love about TTT is that it is no sequel score, just as the movie is no sequel movie. As Shore said, it's Act II of one big three-part piece, and I think it is exactly that.

Oh, and I do consider Gollum's Song a masterpiece.

Marian - who will be very angry if it doesn't get an Oscar or something.

[Wojo 2,453]

Right on, Marian!

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

There's one point where I have to disagree at least. Yes, Williams did fantastic sequel scores. But the thing I love about TTT is that it is no sequel score, just as the movie is no sequel movie. As Shore said, it's Act II of one big three-part piece, and I think it is exactly that.

Oh, and I do consider Gollum's Song a masterpiece.

- Marc, who totally agrees.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Well, then the new Oscar rule will not hurt LOTR crew, right?

:roll:

Luke, who read that in the article that they were furious

[Romão 2,274]

Well, lloks like everyone in the LOTr crew is always screaming "Give me an oscar. I want an oscar". This has been specially relevant with Gollum.

Romao, taht will be furious if Serkins is nominated, since Frank Oz was not in 1980.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Romao, taht will be furious if Serkins is nominated, since Frank Oz was not in 1980.

And since the facial features are not his and that's what Gollum is about.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Actually, the facial features ARE his.

You can read some interesting fact about the creation of Gollum and other stuff in this interview, Luke.

http://filmforce.ign.com/articles/380/380092p1.html

What the animators did was they basically put the computer Gollum over the top of Andy. So every nuance and subtlety and things that Andy had built into his performance was then duplicated.

Stefancos- who expects nomimations for best visual effects, music and best song.

[Marian Schedenig 8,192]

Romao, taht will be furious if Serkins is nominated, since Frank Oz was not in 1980.

Oz was a puppeteer and voice actor. He should have gotten a nomination (and possibly the award too) for that. But he wasn't an actor. Serkis was. As Stefan said, he DID act Gollum. The facial features might not be his, but the mimics and everything are. Like they keep saying, it's no different than extensive makeup or a rubber mask.

Marian - who thinks he should be eligible, but is not sure if he should actually get the award (the acting was really good, but not outstanding I think).

[Romão 2,274]

Gollum IS a CGI character, motion-captured or not. It is most certainly not the same thing as an actor with makeup.

[Morn 8]

That's beside the point, it was acted by a real actor rather than an animator.

[Marian Schedenig 8,192]

Gollum IS a CGI character, motion-captured or not. It is most certainly not the same thing as an actor with makeup.

Tell me where the difference is then.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Look Jar Jar has an actor too (amhed Best) And he does a good job at doing what Jar jar is, a clumsy gungan. You would cry loud if he had been nominated.

And they said they exagerated the face of Serkis. Gollums is far a lot bigheaded, so they are NOT his features, it is not his green head with a CGI body.

And surely Gollums body has few rememberances of Serkis', gollum has shorter legs (or longer arms) that Serkis, i'm sure that Serkis look a lot different in reality than in CGI. The movements could be captured, but they are raw, they have to be polished by the animators. And anyway capturing one's motion is nothing new...

And yes Gollum and Serkis could be twins... :roll:

[Marian Schedenig 8,192]

Look Jar Jar has an actor too (amhed Best) And he does a good job at doing what Jar jar is, a clumsy gungan. You would cry loud if he had been nominated.

As far as I know, Jar Jar's movements were motion-captured, but I don't think his facial expressions were.

And they said they exagerated the face of Serkis. Gollums is far a lot bigheaded, so they are NOT his features, it is not his green head with a CGI body.

Noone said Serkis looks like Gollum (his luck). And noone said they are his features. Put someone under heavy makeup or a rubber mask, and what you get aren't his features either. But the mimics, i.e. the acting, are his.

And surely Gollums body has few rememberances of Serkis', gollum has shorter legs (or longer arms) that Serkis, i'm sure that Serkis look a lot different in reality than in CGI.

Take any actor who won an Oscar. I bet he looks somewhat differently in reality than in the movie. I don't think the clothes and makeup they wear their are exactly like those they were normally.

The movements could be captured, but they are raw, they have to be polished by the animators. And anyway capturing one's motion is nothing new...

Nobody said motion capture is new.

And yes Gollum and Serkis could be twins... :roll:

"i'm sure that Serkis look a lot different in reality than in CGI."

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Marian, did you read Stefancos interview? Jackson claims Gollum's face is a caricature of Serkis'

And i tought WHY Compare it with Yoda or Jar Jar? What about Anthony Daniels as C3PO? He does a much better work that any of the others, plus he is in the suit and well not facial features but his mannerisms are enough to show us the characters feelings, much more difficult than doing facial features. Daniels should have been in Gollum's praise two decades ago...

And anyway, i know TTT is going to win best FX Just for a character. as i know Williams will not won any more oscars.

PS: telling that Gollum's CGI over serkis is as make up, ok i could see your point (although it's like nominating Silas Carson (Nute Gunray), because he has an electronically motioned mask.) But do not tell me the clothes are the same than that.

[Marian Schedenig 8,192]

Marian, did you read Stefancos interview? Jackson claims  Gollum's face is a caricature of Serkis'

Uhm. Yes? So?

And i tought WHY Compare it with Yoda or Jar Jar? What about Anthony Daniels as C3PO? He does a much better work that any of the others, plus he is in the suit and well not facial features but his mannerisms are enough to show us the characters feelings, much more difficult than doing facial features.

He does quite a good job with the gestures I guess, but it's mostly the voice in his case. He's more of a voice actor in the SW series.

And anyway, i know TTT is going to win best FX Just for a character. as i know Williams will not won any more oscars.

The point is whether Serkis should be nominated for Best Actor, not whether TTT should be nominated for best sfx.

PS: telling that Gollum's CGI over serkis is as make up, ok i could see your point (although it's like nominating Silas Carson (Nute Gunray), because he has an electronically motioned mask.) But do not tell me the clothes are the same than that.

I don't see a big difference, since the acting is real acting.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

So if Nute gunray had a major role (capable of a secondary actor) he could be nominated? It is not his face.. (if someone has won with makeup i'm sure its is because his eyes and mouth were his/hers...)

About this first paragraph i may have misunderstood you but i leave it just in case. Now, a dressed actor, you can see him. Can you see Serkis in Gollum? He represents a twisted body that he has not.

And C-3PO is acting, Anthony Daniels moved the mouth as much as Serkis or others. Or did you saw serkis mouth?

[MAG-SI 10]

I'm wondering what Bjork has to say about the Gollum's song.

[csiaspam 0]

I'm wondering what Bjork has to say about the Gollum's song.

Sure sounds like Bjork singing, but it's not...

[Marian Schedenig 8,192]

So if Nute gunray had a major role (capable of a secondary actor) he could be nominated?

Who/what is Nute gunray?

It is not his face.. (if someone has won with makeup i'm sure its is because his eyes and mouth were his/hers...)

No. You can see eyes and mouths on photos, but nobody wins acting awards for photos. It's about the mimics.

About this first paragraph i may have misunderstood you but i leave it just in case. Now, a dressed actor, you can see him. Can you see Serkis in Gollum? He represents a twisted body that he has not.

Yes, I can see Serkis in Gollum. I.e. since I know what he looks like and how he acted those scenes, I can see him acting out the Gollum scenes when I watch the movie.

And C-3PO is acting, Anthony Daniels moved the mouth as much as Serkis or others. Or did you saw serkis mouth?

Yes. I did see Serkis' mimics on Gollum.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Nute Gunray is the Trade Federation Viceroy. :roll: He is portrated by Silas Carlson, who is also Ki-Adi-Mundi (the 'conehead' jedi master)

look i dont see serkis in Gollum, you do? ok that's fine

lets end here? beerchug 8O

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Take a look at this little piece of film. I am sure you will see the similarities.

- Marc, who is still divided on the whole Serkis/Gollum Oscar thing

[Guest]

Get your flames ready,that´s what this thread is all about, isn´t it!?

Well, I just hate the Lord of the Rings movies, the book was so special, but now with these soulless movies and all the annoying hype (that´s the worst for me really, you just can´t avoid it, sucks!!!),

I just don´t care a bit for the Lotr movies anymore and I avoid TTT and will avoid ROTk like hell!

I liked the music for the Ringwraith, were indifferent about most of the rest, but hated all the other chorus cues, besides that´s with the ringwraiths, it really annoyed me.

Oh, I also was annoyed by that stereotypical "Irish Fantasy Melody" Sound (this is middle-earth, not Ireland, right?!).

I wanted to like Fotr, but in time my anger grew, when I saw the TTT trailer, it just morphed into hate ("Skatin´Legolas", die!!!").

I know this was mainly about the TTT score and I seem to miss the point here, but you know what, I don´t care, I just wanted to state that I f**king hate the entire LOTR franchise by now and I was once a (almost) diehard fan!

The Jakster

[Romão 2,274]

I really don't hate movies, I enjoy them, but I miss the days when LOTR fans were a almost a sub-culture of people who had actually read the books and that was all there was to it.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Breathmask, i can't see it... (no filters or something)

[Morn 8]

this is middle-earth, not Ireland, right?

I've seen some movies set in old Ireland.... that make Ireland seem like middle-earth.