Admiral Holdo 16 Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Goldeneye is bad if you cling to the Barry sound as some sort of gospel.That said, I'm glad Serra didn't define the Bond sound past that film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 The thought that someone prefers GoldenEye over The World Is Not Enough is mindblowing.It's better than all of Arnold's scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Didn't I bitch-slap you already today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixie_twinkle 48 Posted October 19, 2012 Author Share Posted October 19, 2012 The thought that someone prefers GoldenEye over The World Is Not Enough is mindblowing.Really? Why? What makes TWINE a better score? I'm curious to know what I'm missing here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 The thought that someone prefers GoldenEye over The World Is Not Enough is mindblowing.It's better than all of Arnold's scores.No, it isnt.The thought that someone prefers GoldenEye over The World Is Not Enough is mindblowing.Really? Why? What makes TWINE a better score? I'm curious to know what I'm missing here.Well, for one, TWINE doesn't sound like 70s electronics sans orchestra expanded to a full score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 The thought that someone prefers GoldenEye over The World Is Not Enough is mindblowing.It's better than all of Arnold's scores.No, it isnt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Sorry, I see no point in discussing the merits Arnold's scores have over GoldenEye.If you don't hear it, there probably is no helping you anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrJosh 892 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Is it bad that I have the game score in my iTunes and listen to it once in awhile? The connection to Serra's score is valid because it uses one of his signature sounds. I refer to it as the "coh."I love the game score, I have awesome memories of my brother and I recording the music off the game onto cassette tapes so we could listen to goldeneye64 in the car lol. And I knew exactly what you meant by "coh" haha. Awesome sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Sorry, I see no point in discussing the merits Arnold's scores have over GoldenEye.If you don't hear it, there probably is no helping you anymore.Oh I hear it. Arnold in general can be a very generic composer. I love Tomorrow Never Dies and Casino Royale; The World Is Not Enough, Die Another Day, and Quantum Of Solace aren't great scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Phew, for a moment I thought I screwed up and gave away the wrong James Bond score with all the praise Goldeneye is getting.So went and found the cues on youtube, I knew what I was doing, utter dribble and completely wrong for Bond. The gun barrel sequence sounds so cheesy and and like it was homemade on a keyboard in some dude's basement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 I struggle to even hear the Bond theme in Serrasalmus gun barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Arnold in general can be a very generic composer. I love Tomorrow Never Dies and Casino Royale; The World Is Not Enough, Die Another Day, and Quantum Of Solace aren't great scores.I'd say TOMORROW; CASINO and QoS all have 10 or 15 minutes of listenable or even inspired material, but the excess of a 115-minute score can't be handled by Arnold's orchestrator army trying to make sense of unfocused ostinati running all over the place. It's just LOUD.I'm on repeat here, but apart from Goldsmith there is only one major 'modern' Hollywood composer who could write 100-minutes of action bombast like AIR FORCE ONE and keep it lean and mean, structurally and that is surprisingly John Powell. You might not like his style, but he knows his action stuff and how to develop it. JNH and Horner - on a really good day - could do it but choose not to, most of the time. People say Giacchino can, but i stay unconvinced by his MI scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hlao-roo 389 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Hmm...not sure about that. I think Powell's late in the film climactic cues can get somewhat bloated and unfocused, although admittedly I'm dealing with a relatively small sample on my part. I don't make a point of seeking out his stuff, even though I like a lot of his Bourne material, large swaths of How to Train Your Dragon, and all of United 93 (which is not an action score). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Score_Fan 36 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 I highly disagree. His DAD has a little bit of issues, and TND/TWINE can feel a little long, but CR & QoS are beyond perfect listens; imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Hmm...not sure about that. I think Powell's late in the film climactic cues can get somewhat bloated and unfocused, although admittedly I'm dealing with a relatively small sample on my part. They sure are in DRAGON, but on the whole, he's better than almost anyone else in 'pure' action mode, or at least tries to find an overarching structure he sticks to. Compare that to Arnold's 'everything but the kitchen sink' approach (save for AFRICAN RUNDOWN and a handful of other cues) and Powell clearly comes out on top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Die Another Day is sheer, pure, wicked fun. Nothing deep or meaningful about it, but I would argue that it features the most purely entertaining cues in a single Bond movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Hmm...not sure about that. I think Powell's late in the film climactic cues can get somewhat bloated and unfocused, although admittedly I'm dealing with a relatively small sample on my part. I don't make a point of seeking out his stuff, even though I like a lot of his Bourne material, large swaths of How to Train Your Dragon, and all of United 93 (which is not an action score).I'll be making my post on Powell soon, but I advise you to listen to Paycheck. One of his most underrated scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 PAYCHECK is one of those well-constructed action scores, with the both HOG CHASES being excellent examples of modern action music which doesn't sound like they were mangled through multiple 'generic' blenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixie_twinkle 48 Posted October 19, 2012 Author Share Posted October 19, 2012 The thought that someone prefers GoldenEye over The World Is Not Enough is mindblowing.It's better than all of Arnold's scores.No, it isnt.The thought that someone prefers GoldenEye over The World Is Not Enough is mindblowing.Really? Why? What makes TWINE a better score? I'm curious to know what I'm missing here.Well, for one, TWINE doesn't sound like 70s electronics sans orchestra expanded to a full score.No, it sounds like 90s electronics expanded to a full score.Die Another Day is sheer, pure, wicked fun. Nothing deep or meaningful about it, but I would argue that it features the most purely entertaining cues in a single Bond movie.It's not bad (and I really like the Cuba cue), but overall it's way too generic. The love theme at the end is dangerously close to "You Only Live Twice" title song. And not in a good way.Again, don't get me wrong I like what Arnold did for the series as a whole, and the score to TND is fantastic. I just don't think his scores are better than Serra's Goldeneye score. Very often his music is just "there". It is exactly what you'd expect in that particular scene, which is ok for the most part, but I like to be pleasantly surprised in a score by something a bit more unusual, or something that lifts the score out of the purely "functional". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Arnold "got" what Bond is about. Serra never did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixie_twinkle 48 Posted October 19, 2012 Author Share Posted October 19, 2012 And I can't argue with that. The Serra score is less obviously Bond, but for that one film I think that's ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Holdo 16 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Absolutely! I'm glad Serra didn't define the Bond sound post-1995, but as a one-and-done experiment, it's a nifty experimental score.Same with Skyfall. I'd like David Arnold back for Bond 24, but Newman's take on it is interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 How many Bond scores do you want from Arnold? Give it to Powell! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 How many Bond scores do you want from John Barry? Give it to Arnold! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brónach 1,302 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 I want a composer that isn't Arnold or Powell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 John Williams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Powell would be perfect for Bond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Alexandre Desplat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 And I can't argue with that. The Serra score is less obviously Bond, but for that one film I think that's ok.So, for the film that, after a long hiatus and when Bond was thought to be dead, was supposed to introduce the Bond sound to a new generation, abandoning the Bond sound almost completely and replacing it with a sequel scoee to the Fifth Element is ok?I think not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Yep, because if a franchise fails, going back to what originally made it fail is the right way to go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 You think the Bond franchise ... failed? And it failed because of scores like The Living Daylights? Every time I think I read every atrocity you can think of, Koray, you top them all again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 I agree with Newman! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 You think the Bond franchise ... failed? And it failed because of scores like The Living Daylights? Every time I think I read every atrocity you can think of, Koray, you top them all again.Why do you take everything at face value? Sarcasm. You insinuated that a franchise thought to be dead needed to go back to its roots to be revived for a new generation. How does that make any marketing sense? Film is always a business first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixie_twinkle 48 Posted October 20, 2012 Author Share Posted October 20, 2012 I said it was "less obviously Bond" (than the Arnold scores). I didn't say it wasn't still very obviously a Bond score. Seriously, it may not have that Barry sound, but neither do the Bill Conti, George Martin and Marvin Hamlysch scores and yet they are still clearly Bond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 You think the Bond franchise ... failed? And it failed because of scores like The Living Daylights? Every time I think I read every atrocity you can think of, Koray, you top them all again.Why do you take everything at face value? Sarcasm.You insinuated that a franchise thought to be dead needed to go back to its roots to be revived for a new generation. How does that make any marketing sense? Film is always a business first.I didn't say that. It didn't need to go back to the roots because Barry still scored TLD in 1987. It just needed to update the Barry genetics. And Serra didn't do that. And he wasn't willing either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Seriously, it may not have that Barry sound, but neither do the Bill Conti, George Martin and Marvin Hamlysch scores and yet they are still clearly Bond.Conti, Martin, Hamlish, Kamen and Arnold have all been able to capture that Bond sound in one way or another, even though their scores have a very didderent style.Serra's lacks that completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryant Burnette 654 Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Serra's score is, first and foremost, bad music. It is, secondly, bad film music. It is, thirdly, bad action film music.And it is also, finally, bad James Bond music. Ollie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryant Burnette 654 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 I'm no Serra-hater, either; I quite like The Fifth Element. Nor do I need all of my action music to sound the same; I really like Sean Callery's music for 24, for example, and I love what Zimmer has been doing with Nolan.And for that matter, I'm fine with somebody taking several steps outside of the norm for Bond music. All that Bill Conti disco stuff in For Your Eyes Only...? Love it!But GoldenEye, I cannot roll with. It sounds like a dog walking across a Casio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. A. Ron 1,742 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 I'm no Serra-hater, either; I quite like The Fifth Element. Nor do I need all of my action music to sound the same; I really like Sean Callery's music for 24, for example, and I love what Zimmer has been doing with Nolan.And for that matter, I'm fine with somebody taking several steps outside of the norm for Bond music. All that Bill Conti disco stuff in For Your Eyes Only...? Love it!But GoldenEye, I cannot roll with. It sounds like a dog walking across a Casio.Still haven't seen/heard The Fifth Element, but I completely agree in regards to 24, For Your Eyes Only and GoldenEye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 I'm no Serra-hater, either; I quite like The Fifth Element. Nor do I need all of my action music to sound the same; I really like Sean Callery's music for 24, for example, and I love what Zimmer has been doing with Nolan.And for that matter, I'm fine with somebody taking several steps outside of the norm for Bond music. All that Bill Conti disco stuff in For Your Eyes Only...? Love it!But GoldenEye, I cannot roll with. It sounds like a dog walking across a Casio.I don't understand how you can like The Fifth Element and despise GoldenEye. It's all pretty much the same stuff. Could it be because one is for a science fiction action flick, and the other for Bond? Thoughts on Leon? Cause that's more of the Serra I love, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryant Burnette 654 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 I don't understand how you can like The Fifth Element and despise GoldenEye. It's all pretty much the same stuff. Could it be because one is for a science fiction action flick, and the other for Bond? Thoughts on Leon? Cause that's more of the Serra I love, too.I think it probably does have something to do with The Fifth Element being sci-fi; you can get away with weirder stuff in that setting. But apart from that, I think it's just that it's a better score; I don't remember it well enough to cite any specific examples (it's been a while since I listened to it), but that's my knee-jerk take on it.As for Leon, I've never listened to it, except for the once I saw the movie. I remember virtually nothing about the movie, and literally nothing about the music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 The Fifth Element is much more tonal and brooding than GoldenEye. But then there are wonderful bits like "Korben Dallas" and "Ruby Rap." More about GoldenEye though, it just perfectly captures that Cold War-era cold snowy sound so perfectly. The overture is perfection.Leon is closer to it than The Fifth Element, and probably my favorite Serra score.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyLaLqQxuN0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Serra is a one-trick pony to me, more than anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 aaaaand how many Serra scores have you listened to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 The real question is: how many can you hear until you lose interest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 So GoldenEye is it, eh? Try his Arthur And The Invisibles trilogy for some purely orchestral fantasy scores, or really any of his other scores for Luc Besson other than the previous two mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrJosh 892 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 So GoldenEye is it, eh? Try his Arthur And The Invisibles trilogy for some purely orchestral fantasy scores, or really any of his other scores for Luc Besson other than the previous two mentioned.I've actually been wanting to hear more Serra scores (I enjoy fifth element and Leon) so thanks for the suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkOrb 0 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Serra's Goldeneye score get soooo much undeserved hate. It really baffles me how people can think it's that bad. I personally love it.It's definitely in my top three, alongside Casino Royale and Thunderball. I really like the comparison to the "cold war, snowy sound", I never looked at it that way.Favorite cues would have to be Overture, WSTSP, and Fatal Weakness. FW is such an awesome tension builder with that driving industrial edge (this was back when industrial was more relevant). WSTSP and That What Keeps Us Alone feel like throwbacks to the Barry sound, with their more sweeping melodies. Run, Shoot, Jump is such a ballsy action cue. Explosive as hell. So much energy for a minute of a track.I sort of clump Serra's work with Graeme Norgate and Grant Kirkhope's score for the 64 game. They both share a lot of similarities, you can tell they took inspiration from the film score there. Like MrJosh I was really young when both those came out in the mid-late 90s, so that sound takes me back to a certain period of life.Just my two cents. Goldeneye is an excellent, unique score. Opinions are like like assholes. So there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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