Thor 7,478 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Robert Altman made this short film for the birthday of his wife Katherine Reed (or Kathryn Reed) in 1965, and John Williams scored it. That's about it in terms of what we know about it.It's probably the most obscure item on his filmography (not counting some tv titles) and presumably even harder to find than STORIA DI UNA DONNA (1970).I wonder, though....has anyone ever tried contacting the Altman state about it? If not, how does one go about contacting the Altman estate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,823 Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 I have contacted recently numerous Film Libraries of institutions and universities in USA, but unfortunately noone seems to know anything about it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,478 Posted November 21, 2012 Author Share Posted November 21, 2012 That figures, because given the private nature of the film, I would think it resided in the private ownership of the Altman estate -- not in film libraries or anywhere else. If it exists at all. It would also make a release near-to-impossible, of course, but one could at least confirm that it existed or not.My educated guess is that the film reels are sitting in the attic of one of the six children (since both Robert and Kathryn have passed away). However, one sentence at Altman's Wikipedia entry intriguied me:In 2009 the University of Michigan made the winning bid for the Altman archives: approximately 900 boxes of personal papers, scripts, legal, business and financial records, photographs, props and related material; the total collection measures over 1,000 linear feet.So....could it be at the University of Michigan? Or did you try that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,823 Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 No I haven't tried there.I've tried UCLA, Museum of Moving Image, Academy Film Library, Library of Congress, Museum of Modern Art.A last bit of information I had seen is this (dated from 2010):"I wound up asking him if he would ever think of releasing his short films, which included things he lent out to the Museum of the Moving Image in Astoria for a comprehensive Altman retro (Pot au feu, The Katherine Reed Story, etc.). He said they weren’t very good and, no, he didn’t really want them to be released on a laser disc (this tells you how far back this was)."http://mediafunhouse...e-they-are.htmlthat's why I started from Museum of Moving image and they guided me to other libraries too.By the way, their reply was:"The information you found online is correct - we do show films here, we just don't keep them in our collection"So, I'll try in University of Michigan too, thanks for the information.I'll let you know.Given that i'll approach them stating the nature of my research on Williams, I'm sure they'll reply if they know anything.(even if they have it, i see a very strict policy about copying etc. So, anyone could watch it probably only if he goes there)edit: Ok, sent an email and waiting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,478 Posted November 21, 2012 Author Share Posted November 21, 2012 Great, it will be exciting to hear what they say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 I thought I had a bootleg of this one, but I guess it was just Story Of A Woman and The Screaming Woman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,823 Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Ok, I already have a "preliminary" answer. We do, indeed, have Robert Altman's archive. We are investigating whether there are any materials in our holdings related to "The Katherine Reed Story," or any other materials related to John Williams. Hopefully I will be able to get back to you early next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Once 604 Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Wow. That's exiting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,478 Posted November 21, 2012 Author Share Posted November 21, 2012 I thought I had a bootleg of this one, but I guess it was just Story Of A Woman and The Screaming Woman.Are you joking or do you have a boot with STORY OF A WOMAN? The only recording I'm aware of is a brief, crappysounding suite that someone recorded off their TV screen way back when. And the title song, of course.Ok, I already have a "preliminary" answer.We do, indeed, have Robert Altman's archive. We are investigating whether there are any materials in our holdings related to "The Katherine Reed Story," or any other materials related to John Williams. Hopefully I will be able to get back to you early next week.Great to hear that they got back to you, but I wouldn't get my hopes up. It was mostly paperwork they received, according to the Wikipedia entry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,823 Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 I thought I had a bootleg of this one, but I guess it was just Story Of A Woman and The Screaming Woman.Are you joking or do you have a boot with STORY OF A WOMAN? The only recording I'm aware of is a brief, crappysounding suite that someone recorded off their TV screen way back when. And the title song, of course.Ok, I already have a "preliminary" answer.We do, indeed, have Robert Altman's archive. We are investigating whether there are any materials in our holdings related to "The Katherine Reed Story," or any other materials related to John Williams. Hopefully I will be able to get back to you early next week.Great to hear that they got back to you, but I wouldn't get my hopes up. It was mostly paperwork they received, according to the Wikipedia entry.I'm sure he means that TV rip. There is no clean bootleg of this.* * *Well, as I've seen in the university's site in the special collections regarding Altman, it says they have audiovisual material too."...and the life and career of film director Robert Altman is richly documented in an extensive archive consisting of business and other records, papers, photographs, audiovisual material, posters, and props."http://www.lib.umich.edu/special-collections-library/collections Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Andrade 1,262 Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Great news Looking forward to further developments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,823 Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 I'm afraid I have bad news!!They don't have anything! So, if it isn't there, then only the family could have it I assume... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,478 Posted November 26, 2012 Author Share Posted November 26, 2012 I'm afraid I have bad news!!They don't have anything! So, if it isn't there, then only the family could have it I assume...Sorry to hear that, but it was expected.Yeah, one of the six children must have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,823 Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 I'm afraid I have bad news!!They don't have anything! So, if it isn't there, then only the family could have it I assume...Sorry to hear that, but it was expected.Yeah, one of the six children must have it.And maybe they don't even know that they have it, or that it exists!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noahmotion 0 Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 I don't know if anyone is still interested in seeing this movie, but it is playing one night only (tonight) at UCLA:http://happenings.ucla.edu/all/event/127598Just thought you might like to know.Noah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,478 Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 Cool! Use the opportunity if you're in the area, folks. It's by no means a great short movie, but an intriguing historical document. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,823 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 WOW!!!I didn't expect this to happen like EVER, but apparently The Katherine Reed Story is available on Bluray!!!!!(in the extras of the bluray release of this documentary http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2404171/)Now, I can't find a listing for the Bluray itself though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Andrade 1,262 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Cool, I was wondering about this documentary, but there are other buying priorities right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,823 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 OK, here it is:http://www.filmswelike.com/store-items/altmanand here's the first 2 minutes of the film:http://video.repubblica.it/spettacoli-e-cultura/altman-i-corti-ritrovati-the-kathryn-reed-story/182589/181405I repeat my post from FSM:Now, about the score:It seems like something on-the-fly and improvisatory score for a small group of instruments, often making musical references to known pieces and melodies like:Magnificent SevenExoduslullabytheme from Batman TV seriesand I'm sure other known melodies too which I can't identify.(there is a march eg. that I have heard again, but I don't know the title)Also it includes a silent film music passage that Williams reused decades later in 2003.from jwfan:‘Silent Film’ Piano DuetComposed to accompany silent film footage during the “Soundtracks: Music and Film” festival in 2003Premiered on January 23, 2003 in Washington, DC (John Williams, Piano/Leonard Slatkin, Piano)Now, a strange thing that I noticed is this:This is supposed to be a 1965 short film, but used the batman theme (by Neal Hefti) which came out in January of 1966.Kathryn Reed was born on June 2, so I guess this was supposed to be shown privately on June 1965.But how could Williams know the theme beforehand?Maybe it was made in 1966? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,478 Posted September 17, 2015 Author Share Posted September 17, 2015 I repeat my post from FSM too:Wow, that's cool! I never saw that coming. I do have a crummylooking VHS transfer or something (as do you, I know), but hopefully this BR version has much better quality.As you say, the date of the film (1965) is questionable, given the appearance of the BATMAN theme. So I've thought for a long time now that it came out right after, when the film and theme became such a hit. Perhaps 1967.There isn't much original music in the film, but there is some. I think this was just a "fun" thing Altman did for mostly private purposes, and he got his pal John to write and perform and arrange the music for no money. You can see the band listed over the end credits, with Williams himself at the piano. Interestingly, there's also a brief image of Williams' album RHYTHM IN MOTION among a stack of LPs at some point.I've often wondered if the 'silent film' passage is not an original Williams composition, but rather something famous from the time, but if so, I have no idea what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,319 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Wow!! What random news! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,823 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 I've often wondered if the 'silent film' passage is not an original Williams composition, but rather something famous from the time, but if so, I have no idea what it is.Yes, I have the same hunch.Even at the time I saw it at the video with Williams, the melody sounded familiar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,319 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Shazam it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,823 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Shazam it??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 I've often wondered if the 'silent film' passage is not an original Williams composition, but rather something famous from the time, but if so, I have no idea what it is.Yes, I have the same hunch.Even at the time I saw it at the video with Williams, the melody sounded familiar.That whole "Silent film montage" Williams did is clearly modeled on several styles and modes typical of the silent film piano accompaniment music in vogue from the 1910s and early 20s. So it's purposefully sounding similar to several of those pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,478 Posted September 17, 2015 Author Share Posted September 17, 2015 Yeah, I know. It could certainly be pastiche (Williams does that well, as we all know). But it could also be an existing piece not composed by Williams. I find it odd that he would re-use an obscure theme from this short film in the "Silent Film Montage" thingie in 2003. Especially since KATHERINE contains so many cameos of famous themes. Untill someone recognizes it, though, I'll live under the assumption that he composed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,319 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Shazam it???Shazam is an app where you play a piece of music, it listens to it and then tells you what it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,823 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Shazam it???Shazam is an app where you play a piece of music, it listens to it and then tells you what it isI doubt that it would recognise a silent film music extract..Maybe it's used more for famous pop songs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thx99 1,740 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Shazam is an app where you play a piece of music, it listens to it and then tells you what it isI doubt that it would recognise a silent film music extract..Maybe it's used more for famous pop songs?Shazam is a mixed bag. It is usually spot on with pop songs/commercial music, and surprisingly, with classical music. And on occasion, I'm shocked that it successfully identifies rather obscure pieces such as those from production music libraries.The biggest problem with Shazam is that it isn't a general music matching program, as I understand it. It identifies specific recordings based on the "musical fingerprints" stored in its database. So even if the "silent film montage" features pre-existing themes, Shazam won't identify them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightscape94 965 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Soundhound is sometimes better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarecroe 2 Posted May 16, 2019 Share Posted May 16, 2019 Thanks for posting the clip. Has anyone seen the full short? Does Johnny get a full on-screen credit or title card? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,478 Posted May 16, 2019 Author Share Posted May 16, 2019 2 hours ago, scarecroe said: Thanks for posting the clip. Has anyone seen the full short? Does Johnny get a full on-screen credit or title card? Yes. It finally became available as a bonus feature on the Blu-ray release of the documentary ALTMAN (2014). It's a charming little piece; I rewatched it recently for my upcoming article on the Altman/Williams collaboration for a Norwegian magazine. John Williams is credited alongside his band, as "John Williams and the Purple Derbys". This used to be the most obscure and hardest-to-find entry in JW's filmography. Now that honour belongs solely to STORY OF A WOMAN. Once and Yavar Moradi 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Andrade 1,262 Posted May 17, 2019 Share Posted May 17, 2019 @Thor You may like to know that before their earlier collaborations, Williams was the session pianist on Leight Stevens' score for The James Dean Story (1957), directed by Altman. Once 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aescalle 122 Posted May 17, 2019 Share Posted May 17, 2019 Just ordered the German edition of the DVD version (including the same bonus as the Bluray). scarecroe 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,478 Posted May 17, 2019 Author Share Posted May 17, 2019 23 minutes ago, Miguel Andrade said: @Thor You may like to know that before their earlier collaborations, Williams was the session pianist on Leight Stevens' score for The James Dean Story (1957), directed by Altman. Damn, wish I had that little piece of information before the magazine went to press. Oh well. Thanks anyway! At least I think I got their first work together right as director and composer ("The Image Merchants" from KRAFT MYSTERY). Miguel Andrade and Yavar Moradi 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarecroe 2 Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 On 5/17/2019 at 9:42 AM, aescalle said: Just ordered the German edition of the DVD version (including the same bonus as the Bluray). Would it be possible for you to post a screenshot of Williams' on-screen credit? I would very much like it for a project I'm working on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,478 Posted December 29, 2019 Author Share Posted December 29, 2019 I have a screenshot somewhere, probably on my external hard drive. Very cool credit: "John Williams and the Purple Derbys". scarecroe 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aescalle 122 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 scarecroe 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,478 Posted December 30, 2019 Author Share Posted December 30, 2019 Which begs the question -- what is a 'purple derby'? Although I have a digital copy of the film, I've been meaning to get the ALTMAN documentary from 2014 that features this short among its extras, but was there something about the DVD never being released, or postponed or something like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aescalle 122 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 I get it from a DVD german release through amazon. And yes it was as extra bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,478 Posted December 30, 2019 Author Share Posted December 30, 2019 Ah, cool. So it's out there. Last time I checked (some 4-5 years ago), I couldn't find the ALTMAN DVD anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aescalle 122 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 3 hours ago, Thor said: Which begs the question -- what is a 'purple derby'? Derbys is a kind of shoe for running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,319 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 It's not hard to find at all https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01833Q6AI/ scarecroe and aescalle 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarecroe 2 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 Thanks for posting his title card! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omen II 1,235 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 3 hours ago, Thor said: Which begs the question -- what is a 'purple derby'? A derby is the American term for a bowler hat (three of which are pictured beneath the 'Purple Derbys' credit!). My guess is that this credit could have been some sort of homage to the big band era where such band names, distinguished by the musicians' collective attire, were commonplace. My Dad was a jazz pianist (his preferred style was mostly stride piano from the 1920s and 1930s) and he would often get his fellow musicians to wear straw boaters during any gigs, just because it was a jazz thing to have all the band members wear matching hats of some description. aescalle and Miguel Andrade 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,647 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 A derby is a type of hat. See the illustration below the title card... Not sure what the relevance is. aescalle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,478 Posted December 30, 2019 Author Share Posted December 30, 2019 Thanks for the info, both of you. That looks like the one Joker wears in the original comics, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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