What do we know about Esther Williams -- John's mom?

[Fabulin 3,510]

48 minutes ago, Thor said:

 

Actually, you're not that far off. Early on in his career, he used other versions of the name to delineate himself from another jazz pianist at the time called John Williams, and obviously his own father. His first credit on M SQUAD, for example, reads John T. Williams Jr. (of all things), and we all know his first studio album, where there's no "Williams" in sight!:

 

Interesting journey from here:

to there:

 

[Thor 7,465]

He, he. Yes, I've thought about the same.

[Thor 7,465]

I'm reading some new information now, that Esther passed away in 1984 (one year prior to John sr.) due to breast cancer. But take it with a grain of salt. If memory serves, there are quotes from Williams himself that suggest she lived to the aforementioned year of 2006 (I've lost the quotes; I'll refind them at some point).

 

In any case, it's interesting to note these new pieces of information. For example, I now know that both of Willams' grandmothers were of Irish descent (Ada Hennessey and Helen O'Reilly Williams, respectively), so that gives a whole new perspective to FAR & AWAY.

[Jay 37,287]

2 minutes ago, Thor said:

both of Willams' grandmothers were of Irish descent (Ada Hennessey and Helen O'Reilly Williams, respectively), so that gives a whole new perspective to FAR & AWAY.

 

I mean, does it really?  A whole new perspective?

[Thor 7,465]

Drawing from one's own heritage.....in some ways, yes.

[Tom 4,639]

18 minutes ago, Thor said:

I'm reading some new information now, that Esther passed away in 1984 (one year prior to John sr.) due to breast cancer. But take it with a grain of salt. If memory serves, there are quotes from Williams himself that suggest she lived to the aforementioned year of 2006 (I've lost the quotes; I'll refind them at some point).

Maybe she died in 2006 while reading 1984.

 

I am almost certain she was alive in the 2000s (some appearance at a JW concert or award ceremony or something).  

[Thor 7,465]

Indeed. I'm doubting the new information too. Too many things to counter it.

[Once 604]

2 hours ago, Thor said:

I'm reading some new information now, that Esther passed away in 1984 (one year prior to John sr.) due to breast cancer. But take it with a grain of salt. If memory serves, there are quotes from Williams himself that suggest she lived to the aforementioned year of 2006 (I've lost the quotes; I'll refind them at some point).

 

In any case, it's interesting to note these new pieces of information. For example, I now know that both of Willams' grandmothers were of Irish descent (Ada Hennessey and Helen O'Reilly Williams, respectively), so that gives a whole new perspective to FAR & AWAY.

Q&A from 2012:

Quote

How is it you’re a Red Sox fan, considering you were born in New York and raised in California?

My mother was born in Boston and loved Fenway Park all of her life. She lived to be 97 and insisted that she lived that long because she wanted to see the Red Sox win the World Series again. Once they did it in 2004, she felt she could pass on very happily. For me, there is a strong family connection to Boston and anything connected to Boston, which includes Fenway.

 

[Thor 7,465]

There you have it! Screw the new information!

[Marian Schedenig 8,173]

Unless we've got some sort of Norman Bates situation on our hands…

[Edmilson 7,392]

Now I am picturing JW dressed like his mom and wandering down the house while the Psycho OST plays on the stereo.

[karelm 2,903]

I was a student at USC Thornton School of Music when his mom died.  She was very old, late 90's, and she had "never been sick a day in her life".  Bodes well for longevity.  

[mrbellamy 6,272]

2 hours ago, Edmilson said:

Now I am picturing JW dressed like his mom and wandering down the house while the Psycho OST plays on the stereo.

 

Or he's just singing it to himself like that Whitest Kids U Know sketch.

[bruce marshall 1,315]

9 hours ago, Thor said:

Drawing from one's own heritage.....in some ways, yes.

Esther is a Jewish name, usually.

[GerateWohl 4,337]

She might still have had breast cancer in 1984, but recovered, and somebody mixed that up.

[Thor 7,465]

13 hours ago, bruce marshall said:

Esther is a Jewish name, usually.

 

True, but it was also a fairly common name at the time, even for non-Jewish people. There are no traces (that I could find) of any Jewish heritage.

 

2 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

She might still have had breast cancer in 1984, but recovered, and somebody mixed that up.

 

I think the source in question may have confused it with a completely different Esther Towner Williams.

[michael_grig 464]

I'm browsing ancestry.com right now. Amazingly, there is a lot of information about John Williams' family (in contrast to mine)!

[Thor 7,465]

1 hour ago, Michael G. said:

I'm browsing ancestry.com right now. Amazingly, there is a lot of information about John Williams' family (in contrast to mine)!

 

Yup. I've been using Geni myself (because that's also where my own heritage line is, added by myself and others in my extended family). Someone in Williams' extended family have been busy. So what one needs to do is to combine whatever names and facts one finds there with a general knowledge about whatever was happening in history at the time. If one does, a whole fascinating story steps forward.

[Thor 7,465]

A couple of other tidbits beyond the John Williams/John Nagle thing I've discovered while recently being sent some documents by a fellow Williams researcher and genealogy buff.

 

I was always a bit frustrated because I could find no information on Esther Towner Williams' profession. Was she just a housewife, or was she involved in showbiz too? Well, now I know. She was a dancer and choreographer, at least up until she got kids. So another person in the music/showbiz world surrounding our favourite composer.

 

Not only that, I found out that Joan, John's older sister (born in 1930), was a piano teacher, at least she was in her late 30s. I don't know what happened after that, as she's the most mysterious figure in the Williams family. But again -- another music connection!

 

It's staggering to think about how surrounded John Williams was with music in his early days -- from all of the family, even going generations back. It was all pre-destined.

 

[Marian Schedenig 8,173]

2 hours ago, Thor said:

Not only that, I found out that Joan, John's older sister (born in 1930), was a piano teacher, at least she was in her late 30s. I don't know what happened after that, as she's the most mysterious figure in the Williams family.

 

We do not speak of her.

[Edmilson 7,392]

Hmm, I always thought John Williams was the older silbling of his family. And until this day I never heard that he has (had?) an older sister.

 

I reckon we don't know if she's still alive or not?

[karelm 2,903]

6 hours ago, Thor said:

A couple of other tidbits beyond the John Williams/John Nagle thing I've discovered while recently being sent some documents by a fellow Williams researcher and genealogy buff.

 

I was always a bit frustrated because I could find no information on Esther Towner Williams' profession. Was she just a housewife, or was she involved in showbiz too? Well, now I know. She was a dancer and choreographer, at least up until she got kids. So another person in the music/showbiz world surrounding our favourite composer.

 

Not only that, I found out that Joan, John's older sister (born in 1930), was a piano teacher, at least she was in her late 30s. I don't know what happened after that, as she's the most mysterious figure in the Williams family. But again -- another music connection!

 

It's staggering to think about how surrounded John Williams was with music in his early days -- from all of the family, even going generations back. It was all pre-destined.

 

What do you know of Johnny's grandfather?  I understand he was a composer too.  

[Edmilson 7,392]

1 hour ago, karelm said:

What do you know of Johnny's grandfather?  I understand he was a composer too.  

See this post:

 

https://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/36778-john-williams-could-have-been-named-john-nagle/&do=findComment&comment=2014165

[Faleel 5,340]

2 hours ago, karelm said:

What do you know of Johnny's grandfather?  I understand he was a composer too.  

"Y'know Johnny boy, I am something of a composer myself"

 

[Thor 7,465]

13 hours ago, karelm said:

What do you know of Johnny's grandfather?  I understand he was a composer too.  

 

Yes, a musician at least. See the thread that Edmilson linked to.

 

Williams' MATERNAL grandfather, David Towner, was a carpenter. There's always one to break the rule.

 

15 hours ago, Edmilson said:

I reckon we don't know if she's still alive or not?

 

We don't know, alas. If she is, she would be 94.

[Edmilson 7,392]

It's weird that she is such an unknown figure in JW's family. His reluctance in sharing stories about her makes me wonder that she either had some sort of tragic demise (and apparently Williams doesn't like talking about the death of people who were important to him, like his first wife) or she was like a "black sheep" in Towner/Williams household. Or maybe even both!

[Thor 7,465]

Not sure it's anything that dramatic. I've seen a photo of the family from the mid 70s (sadly lost the photo now), where everyone seemed to get along well. I'm guessing it has more to do with Joan living a relatively "normal" and quiet life compared to the others, and Williams shielding her privacy as he likes to do, and which is his wont.

[GerateWohl 4,337]

Sounds like the story of Dumbledore's sister.

[Marian Schedenig 8,173]

43 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

and apparently Williams doesn't like talking about the death of people who were important to him

 

He doesn't give a shit for all the better composers?