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What do we know about Esther Williams -- John's mom?


Thor

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It's interesting that we seem to know a few things about Williams' family otherwise -- his father, his two brothers, his three kids, even some of his grandchildren (that are in bands). But for some reason, we don't know much about his mother other than her name.

I know, I know....his personal life is none of our business and all that. Still, I've always found it fascinating to trace possible musical influences in the "genes". When you love a composer as much as I -- and many of you -- do, you will inevitably want to learn more about the personal relationships that helped shape his style as well. Does anyone know who Esther was, and if she was involved in the entertainment business in any way?

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So Lee is John Williams' brother and Stefan happens to be his uncle. And all of them ditched Esther in middle of Spain, coincidentally next to Chaac's residence.

Well now we know about Williams' mother!

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Well, this place is certainly not lacking in "joke cracking".

Still, the question is meant in all seriousness. If anyone knows anything about this, I'd be grateful.

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She's apparently quite the artist.

250px-DrawingHands.jpg

Still, the question is meant in all seriousness. If anyone knows anything about this, I'd be grateful.

I'm not sure we should even be talking about this. And your avatar doesn't inspire confidence.

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Still, the question is meant in all seriousness. If anyone knows anything about this, I'd be grateful.

I'm not sure we should even be talking about this. And your avatar doesn't inspire confidence.

:lol:

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Right.

I should have guessed it was demanding too much to get a straight answer. The endless joking & banter is also a sign that nobody knows anything about her, I guess.

Oh well. It was worth a shot.

Miguel? Do you have some background info? Or other hardcore Williams "historians" like myself?

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Funny, i was wondering about John Williams' personal life in general.

I was thinking about this:

All the great composers of the world (or at least most of them) had a big sorrow in their life:

-beethoven was deaf

-Tchaikovsky was gay

-Schubert had a disease

etc etc..

I have seen from my experience that usually great talent goes with great personal turmoil in a person's life (because he's confining in his inner self and starts to develop certain abilities and talent)

So I was always wondering, what is the personal turmoil of Williams? Is it only his wife's death?

Sorry if i went a bit off topic.

But yes, I think a mother plays a very important role in a person's shaping of character so it would be good to know.

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I should have guessed it was demanding too much to get a straight answer. The endless joking & banter is also a sign that nobody knows anything about her, I guess.

Obviously. Joking doesn't hurt. If anyone knew anything, they'd post it regardless of the jokes.

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The endless joking and banter are a major downside of this place and make me want to just quit.

Why can't it be more like a serious and mature scholarly source of discussion and debate?

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Funny, i was wondering about John Williams' personal life in general.

I was thinking about this:

All the great composers of the world (or at least most of them) had a big sorrow in their life:

-beethoven was deaf

-Tchaikovsky was gay

-Schubert had a disease

etc etc..

I have seen from my experience that usually great talent goes with great personal turmoil in a person's life (because he's confining in his inner self and starts to develop certain abilities and talent)

So I was always wondering, what is the personal turmoil of Williams? Is it only his wife's death?

Sorry if i went a bit off topic.

But yes, I think a mother plays a very important role in a person's shaping of character so it would be good to know.

Thank you for a SERIOUS response at last, filmmusic.

There are indeed many personal turmoils that influence an artist in their work -- sometimes for better, sometimes for worse. There are also "inherited" elements that may have an influence on their chosen profession. Steven Spielberg is a good example -- his father was an engineer and his mother was a concert pianist. He has often said that he inherited the technical skill from his father (to operate a camera) and the more artistic skill from his mother.

I am curious to see if there could be any similar developments in Williams' genes and upbringing.

For example, we know that John sr.'s drumming skills were passed on to Williams' brothers Don and Jerry, Williams' son Mark and even Mark's son Lionel. But what about Esther? Was she a housewife? Was she an artist? Was she somehow involved in showbiz? Did she do anything that would in some way influence John's musical path? This is something I find very fascinating.

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Being gay is cause for sorrow? Ooo controversial!

It certainly could have been during Tchaikovsky's lifetime, where the social stigma was very different from what it is today.

We're moving way off-topic here.

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Why can't it be more like a serious and mature scholarly source of discussion and debate?

Of course that's your contention. You're a first-year grad student; you just got finished reading some Marxian historian, Pete Garrison probably. You're gonna be convinced of that 'till next month when you get to James Lemon. Then you're going to be talking about how the economies of Virginia and Pennsylvania were entrepreneurial and capitalist way back in 1740. That's gonna last until next year; you're gonna be in here regurgitating Gordon Wood, talkin' about, you know, the pre-revolutionary utopia and the capital-forming effects of military mobilization.

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The endless joking and banter are a major downside of this place and make me want to just quit.

Why can't it be more like a serious and mature scholarly source of discussion and debate?

I don't know if you're being sarcastic or serious (I hardly ever do around here), but that's actually something I feel in all seriousness. I'm too serious for this place. :(

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I would bet $1000 that even such a sub-forum would be filled with endless banter and stupid jokes. It seems ingrained into the very woodwork of this place. 90% jokes and maybe 10% real conversation -- if you're lucky.

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Why can't it be more like a serious and mature scholarly source of discussion and debate?

Of course that's your contention. You're a first-year grad student; you just got finished reading some Marxian historian, Pete Garrison probably. You're gonna be convinced of that 'till next month when you get to James Lemon. Then you're going to be talking about how the economies of Virginia and Pennsylvania were entrepreneurial and capitalist way back in 1740. That's gonna last until next year; you're gonna be in here regurgitating Gordon Wood, talkin' about, you know, the pre-revolutionary utopia and the capital-forming effects of military mobilization.

Strange, I was pondering this just last night over a king size Mars bar.

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I would bet $1000 that even such a sub-forum would be filled with endless banter and stupid jokes. It seems ingrained into the very woodwork of this place. 90% jokes and maybe 10% real conversation -- if you're lucky.

You can have very serious conversations in here, but your attitude on this thread doesn't help, man.

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I would bet $1000 that even such a sub-forum would be filled with endless banter and stupid jokes. It seems ingrained into the very woodwork of this place. 90% jokes and maybe 10% real conversation -- if you're lucky.

You can have very serious conversations in here, but your attitude on this thread doesn't help, man.

In fact, the second you start complaining about all the jokes, the inevitable happens. It's like ringing the dinner bell.

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Funny, i was wondering about John Williams' personal life in general.

I was thinking about this:

All the great composers of the world (or at least most of them) had a big sorrow in their life:

-beethoven was deaf

-Tchaikovsky was gay

-Schubert had a disease

etc etc..

I have seen from my experience that usually great talent goes with great personal turmoil in a person's life (because he's confining in his inner self and starts to develop certain abilities and talent)

So I was always wondering, what is the personal turmoil of Williams? Is it only his wife's death?

Sorry if i went a bit off topic.

But yes, I think a mother plays a very important role in a person's shaping of character so it would be good to know.

Thank you for a SERIOUS response at last, filmmusic.

There are indeed many personal turmoils that influence an artist in their work -- sometimes for better, sometimes for worse. There are also "inherited" elements that may have an influence on their chosen profession. Steven Spielberg is a good example -- his father was an engineer and his mother was a concert pianist. He has often said that he inherited the technical skill from his father (to operate a camera) and the more artistic skill from his mother.

I am curious to see if there could be any similar developments in Williams' genes and upbringing.

For example, we know that John sr.'s drumming skills were passed on to Williams' brothers Don and Jerry, Williams' son Mark and even Mark's son Lionel. But what about Esther? Was she a housewife? Was she an artist? Was she somehow involved in showbiz? Did she do anything that would in some way influence John's musical path? This is something I find very fascinating.

It's scientifically proven that depression plays a critical role in creativity.

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It's scientifically proven that depression plays a critical role in creativity.

Perhaps it can play role in some people. But obviously some very creative people put out some very creative work without being depressed at all. Conversely, you can be depressed all the time and not be creative in the least.

And I'm not sure were really talking about clinical "depression" as much as we are periods of anguish and sadness...which are in fact generally closer to happiness than depression in that they're normal, healthy and genuine emotions. Clinical depression is a very specific thing, is not healthy in the least bit, and is often manifested as not sadness or anguish, but an absence of emotion altogether. So I think it's more accurate to say that intense emotional states...including the negative ones, lead to creativity more than depression....which is an overused, and misused, word. But we all know the stereotype of the angst-ridden artist putting out his/her best work...and I believe there's some truth to that. But I'm not sure that's depression in the clinical sense of the term.

Again, that's not to say you can't be depressed and be creative, I just wouldn't say depression is a "critical" component of creativity.

Lee, is this academic enough? :)

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I would bet $1000 that even such a sub-forum would be filled with endless banter and stupid jokes. It seems ingrained into the very woodwork of this place. 90% jokes and maybe 10% real conversation -- if you're lucky.

You can have very serious conversations in here, but your attitude on this thread doesn't help, man.

Sorry; I'm just kinda fed up.

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stupid topic .. you have the same thread on the FSM board

Some of the replies might be stupid, but I don't think the topic in itself is. Why is it stupid to know at least a little bit more about one of the most influential figures in one of our favourite composers' upbringing?

Incidentally, the one over at FSM is one by zooba from several years back that I ressurected just now because I didn't really get any serious feedback here.

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Well, we do know TWO things about her:

1. Her maiden name was Esther Towner

2. She was not the swimmer/MGM movie star by the name Esther Williams

Also, after some Google research, I came upon a site called ancestry.com. There was a record of an Esther Towner (Williams) (1909-2006) who married John Williams (sr.) and had four children (John, Don, Jerry and Joan). No info about her or what she did, but amazingly, there was an old PHOTO! You have to sign up and pay to see a bigger picture, but I printed the screen and made a thumbnail here:

estherwilliams.jpg

Could this be her?

Am I good or what?

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